Is Putin manipulatin' western democracy!

Think I am gonni put on ma tin hat and run like f*ck after postin ma comment.😂
For all of you wishing for independence think of the last 3 years of UK trying to leave the EU and multiply that by ten. That's how much of a fuck up of everyone's life it will be. I am not a supporter of any capitalist and I have no love for any unionist unless that union is under a big red and black banner. So even though I can't vote in Scotland I want to put my oar in and say no to independence. Sorry bhoys and ghirls but I still love yees! 😂
You are 100% right!
Imagine an England not in the Eu and an independent Scotland in the EU, that would require a hard border between us, so all the goods that currently get delivered to Scotland from the EU via road and rail would have to travel through an non Eu country through hard borders to get here? Or does it all get delivered by sea direct to Scotland? Either way it will take longer, be more complicated and cost more.
Think of all the businesses that have bases in both England and Scotland and work between the two countries everyday, now think about one being in Europe and one not.
Imagine dividing up the NHS, The Military, the treasury it will be absolutely calamitous!
But just like the Brexit debacle, all we'll hear during the debate is all the wishful thinking bullshit from both sides and none of the logistical nightmares.
I would suggest people be careful what they wish for, and I'm sure I'll be ignored. Can I borrow your tin hat Lemon?
 
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You are 100% right!
Imagine an England not in the Eu and an independent Scotland in the EU, that would require a hard border between us, so all the goods that currently get delivered to Scotland from the EU via road and rail would have to travel through an non Eu country through hard borders to get here? Or does it all get delivered by sea direct to Scotland? Either way it will take longer, be more complicated and cost more.
Think of all the businesses that have bases in both England and Scotland and work between the two countries everyday, now think about one being in Europe and one not.
Imagine dividing up the NHS, The Military, the treasury it will be absolutely calamitous!
But just like the Brexit debacle, all we'll hear during the debate is all the wishful thinking bullshit from both sides and non of the logistical nightmares.
I would suggest people be careful what they wish for, and I'm sure I'll be ignored. Can I borrow your tin hat Lemon?
There will be no need Hoopy. They're a very forgiving bunch on here just reinforce the wan yiv got and cover yir lugs.😂
 
Scotland will never shake the vampire's grip while there is a gallon of oil in her territorial waters.
Yeh PMM,but with their policy of being carbon neutral in whatever number of years,fossils will be useless as they stated ,so any oil will be ‘neutralised’sort off !!!will be forbidden territory,? Hh
 
Yeh PMM,but with their policy of being carbon neutral in whatever number of years,fossils will be useless as they stated ,so any oil will be ‘neutralised’sort off !!!will be forbidden territory,? Hh

Until fossil fuels become profit neutral they will still be the subject of oligarchic exploitation. Putin, Saudis, Trump, Bushs, Bullingdon ballbags; take your pick.
 
Until fossil fuels become profit neutral they will still be the subject of oligarchic exploitation. Putin, Saudis, Trump, Bushs, Bullingdon ballbags; take your pick.
True ,but that then makes SNP /greens hypocrites? You won’t be using fossils here but ,let’s sell it to whoever else wants it and pollutes the atmosphere,and in the meantime will will follow STRICT laws to change our lives dramatically to accommodate their views,and it will change dramatically,make no mistake ,?all that 100 yrs or so off Industrial Revolution and progress,will mean sod all ,if there is no VIABLE alternative?and I mean that each individual can afford ,makes you think ,hh
 
Two major ports in Scotland
The first being Cairnryan , the busiest freight port sending and recieving goods , the 2nd post is Rosythe which has the ifastructure and capacity to be a major distribution hub for imports and exports

Goods would be landed at these ports from the EU shipping time will be dependeant on freight forwarders logistics , the only reason ports in England such as Dover/felixtowe and Hull are used is because they have a shorter distribution area to cover Engurland and the Goverment make sure goods can only pass through these ports both for jobs and the economy

Right now in Scotland if you were to import any item it will land in England first ,then be freight forwarded to a port in Scotland, you have a choice of road or rail at an extra cost of £100+vat , this would change if independence ever happened it's not rocket science

Companys all over the world have buisness in 2 -3 even 6 different countrys all trade just the same all that changes is the companys head office name plate , becomes a a registered subsidery again really simple

As for the NHs the only thing that bides it with England is the name , funding will remain , hospitals will remain and drug imports will remain

The military well who gis a fk i'm sure theres enough fkwits to fill that void

The calamity of brexit was the torys doing from day one, the money men who backed them didn't want a deal they fkd about for 3 yrs and ignored meetings /deadlines to run the clock down people only remember the last few months ,

the 31st october deadline was set as the EU were opening the box on tax avoidance among the rich and powerful ,all offshore companys were open to EU tax laws

People should be careful what they wish for , heard that statemnet on the run up to Ireland joining the EU ,, turned out quite well for them , Financial companys from around the world located in Dublin taking a huge bite out of the city of london

EU development buisness start up grants one off payments no need to pay back were 25000 euro minimum , and climbing to over 1millon , welfare was overhauled somewhere in the region of 200 euros per week , here it's £60 or £70 something like that


Some folk just enjoy the back of the bus and don't want change or like change , while others just ask why the fk not
 
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Until fossil fuels become profit neutral they will still be the subject of oligarchic exploitation. Putin, Saudis, Trump, Bushs, Bullingdon ballbags; take your pick.
A decade ago North Sea oil and gas brought in around 12bn now its just over 1bn its no longer a major part of the UK GDP, the days of Salmond claiming that Scotland would be the 6th (?) richest nation in the world are long gone, that lunacy was based on over inflated prices and unlimited supplies. I'm sure he'll return one day and apologies for trying to mislead us, oh wait of course he won't, he's a politician it's his job to mislead.
 
A decade ago North Sea oil and gas brought in around 12bn now its just over 1bn its no longer a major part of the UK GDP, the days of Salmond claiming that Scotland would be the 6th (?) richest nation in the world are long gone, that lunacy was based on over inflated prices and unlimited supplies. I'm sure he'll return one day and apologies for trying to mislead us, oh wait of course he won't, he's a politician it's his job to mislead.
Absotively snattered atn, I shall return to this discussion
 
Two major ports in Scotland
The first being Cairnryan , the busiest freight port sending and recieving goods , the 2nd post is Rosythe which has the ifastructure and capacity to be a major distribution hub for imports and exports

Goods would be landed at these ports from the EU shipping time will be dependeant on freight forwarders logistics , the only reason ports in England such as Dover/felixtowe and Hull are used is because they have a shorter distribution area to cover Engurland and the Goverment make sure goods can only pass through these ports both for jobs and the economy

Right now in Scotland if you were to import any item it will land in England first ,then be freight forwarded to a port in Scotland, you have a choice of road or rail at an extra cost of £100+vat , this would change if independence ever happened it's not rocket science

Companys all over the world have buisness in 2 -3 even 6 different countrys all trade just the same all that changes is the companys head office name plate , becomes a a registered subsidery again really simple

As for the NHs the only thing that bides it with England is the name , funding will remain , hospitals will remain and drug imports will remain

The military well who gis a fk i'm sure theres enough fkwits to fill that void

The calamity of brexit was the torys doing from day one, the money men who backed them didn't want a deal they fkd about for 3 yrs and ignored meetings /deadlines to run the clock down people only remember the last few months ,

the 31st october deadline was set as the EU were opening the box on tax avoidance among the rich and powerful ,all offshore companys were open to EU tax laws

People should be careful what they wish for , heard that statemnet on the run up to Ireland joining the EU ,, turned out quite well for them , Financial companys from around the world located in Dublin taking a huge bite out of the city of london

EU development buisness start up grants one off payments no need to pay back were 25000 euro minimum , and climbing to over 1millon , welfare was overhauled somewhere in the region of 200 euros per week , here it's £60 or £70 something like that


Some folk just enjoy the back of the bus and don't want change or like change , while others just ask why the fk not
Kelly biggest port in Scotland is Grangemouth. The amount of wagons going in/out on daily basis is in their hundreds. We also have Leith. I don't see problems import export, no need to move through England. For what it's worth I am snp for all their foibles. There are a good few clever people in the party. After independence there will be no snp they will fracture, there will be new parties a real labour,socialist parties. The most important thing is that they will work together for the benefit of country and its people.
 
Two major ports in Scotland
The first being Cairnryan , the busiest freight port sending and recieving goods , the 2nd post is Rosythe which has the ifastructure and capacity to be a major distribution hub for imports and exports

Goods would be landed at these ports from the EU shipping time will be dependeant on freight forwarders logistics , the only reason ports in England such as Dover/felixtowe and Hull are used is because they have a shorter distribution area to cover Engurland and the Goverment make sure goods can only pass through these ports both for jobs and the economy

Right now in Scotland if you were to import any item it will land in England first ,then be freight forwarded to a port in Scotland, you have a choice of road or rail at an extra cost of £100+vat , this would change if independence ever happened it's not rocket science

Companys all over the world have buisness in 2 -3 even 6 different countrys all trade just the same all that changes is the companys head office name plate , becomes a a registered subsidery again really simple

As for the NHs the only thing that bides it with England is the name , funding will remain , hospitals will remain and drug imports will remain

The military well who gis a fk i'm sure theres enough fkwits to fill that void

The calamity of brexit was the torys doing from day one, the money men who backed them didn't want a deal they fkd about for 3 yrs and ignored meetings /deadlines to run the clock down people only remember the last few months ,

the 31st october deadline was set as the EU were opening the box on tax avoidance among the rich and powerful ,all offshore companys were open to EU tax laws

People should be careful what they wish for , heard that statemnet on the run up to Ireland joining the EU ,, turned out quite well for them , Financial companys from around the world located in Dublin taking a huge bite out of the city of london

EU development buisness start up grants one off payments no need to pay back were 25000 euro minimum , and climbing to over 1millon , welfare was overhauled somewhere in the region of 200 euros per week , here it's £60 or £70 something like that


Some folk just enjoy the back of the bus and don't want change or like change , while others just ask why the fk not

Brilliant post Kelly......nailed it on every point mate ;)(y) More importantly you saved me writing a lengthy, extremely boring and ultimately inferior reply so cheers for that. :D
 
Labour whom since its inception represented and protected the people at the lower end of society. Labour candidate forced to resign because she said 'Israel is like an abused child who grew up to be an abusive adult'. Nicola's disgusted with such rhetoric? SNP in the 1930's - Scottish jobs for Scottish Citizens - Irish go back to Ireland. No Celtic forum should be slagging Labour - they have served the Catholic community since the days when SNP were trying to get votes by targeting immigrants. Not too different from the modern day Brexiteers. I have no problems with people voting SNP Nationalism with the new Queen of England remaining our Monarch and the Act of Settlement secure (it is British politics). No problems with people recognising that Labour party is in a pretty bad state and voting for them. I like the Green Party poppies they are white with a green middle and represent conscientious objectors apparently. A political activist told me that if the SNP win in Scotland that they will ask Boris Johnson for an Independence vote and he will say 'Aye okay'. However a fuckwit told me that the only person who will extend that choice to the Scottish people and treat them with respect is the Labour Leader.

Michael Duffy SNP, Brexit Party, Conservative Party and Labour Party - one of these parties has never courted Donald Trump....the one with all the fuckwits I suspect.

Speaking of lengthy and extremely boring replies here's one for you Goldfinch :D(y) -

'SNP in the 1930's - Scottish jobs for Scottish Citizens - Irish go back to Ireland.'

Any actual evidence that the SNP ever said this Goldfinch? Can't find a single reference or quote anywhere on the net to back up any part of this claim. Not a single instance that the party ever held such a position or a single quote from any SNP member espousing such a view. Not having a go at you personally but it's a pretty damning accusation to make and I'd like to see some hard evidence before I accept such a claim as fact.

Also I'd just like to point out that the Labour Party itself isn't exactly squeaky clean when it comes to anti-immigrant sentiment. From the Labour Party founder and icon Keir Hardie who had some extreme anti-immigrant views himself, to Labour Party MP Oswald Mosley who established the British Union of Fascists and more recently there was Gordon Brown's 'British jobs for British worker's' rhetoric. I'm also sure you would find other examples of anti-immigrant rhetoric and other questionable views coming from people within the Labour Party if you wanted to go looking for it. So I think it's fair to say that any Labour politician or supporter pointing an accusing finger at others for trying to gain votes by targeting immigrants maybe need to reflect on their own party's history a wee bit.

'No Celtic forum should be slagging Labour'

Why not? Labour sit in coalition with the Tories in Scottish councils up and down the country. They have more Orange Order members as councillors than any other party in Scotland and therefore it's no surprise that some Labour run councils have been awarding public money to the Orange Order at a time when they've been complaining of austerity cuts and their budgets being at breaking point. And what about the fact that a Labour controlled Glasgow City Council not only conspired with Labour affiliated union bosses to deny their own workers proper recompense when it was exposed that they had been denying those workers fair and equal pay for years but they then spent millions in taxpayer's money to fight those workers through the courts to deny them proper compensation. If that wasn't bad enough what's even more shameful is the fact that when they lost Glasgow City Council to the SNP in the council elections they then, with the help of those same Labour affiliated union bosses, had the brass neck to organise a strike on behalf of those workers demanding that the new SNP led council immediately and without delay compensate the very same workers they themselves had been denying compensation to for over a decade!

Add to the mix that they've shamefully abstained on Tory welfare cuts at Westminster (some of which btw they have vowed to keep in place if they ever regained power) that have devastated the lives of the poor and disabled while consistently voting down additional powers being devolved to the Scottish Parliament that, could in part go some way to help alleviate some of the worst of the Tories austerity policies, then these are just a handful of reasons why the Labour Party should be getting 'slagged' and not just on Celtic forums.

Labour have served the Catholic community?

I think saying that the Labour Party has 'served' the Catholic community is stretching things a bit. Whilst I'd agree that the Labour Party originally set out to represent and protect those at the lower end of society and that both they and the Catholic community have historically had shared values when it came to certain social issues these issues were never specific to Catholics alone so Labour weren't exactly 'serving' the Catholic community but more the wider working class community as a whole. Also this was a mutually beneficial arrangement so let's not pretend this was a wholly altruistic act on Labour's part as they were rewarded with Catholic votes in return for taking on issues that were not just specific to Catholics.

In fact I think it's fair to say that Labour did a disservice to Catholics in certain areas. During Labour's near 60 year reign as the 'only party in Scotland' they not only ignored anti-Irish racism and anti-Catholic sentiment in society but it was during this time that Catholics were routinely discriminated against in the workplace, were paid less in some sectors and systematically kept out of management positions meaning their earning potential was limited? Why didn't Labour and the unions step in when that was common practice?

Truth is rather than 'serving' the Catholic community Labour expertly walked the fine line of the religious divide in Scotland as a way of maximising their own voter base. They couldn't afford to alienate either side of the divide so they chose to bury their heads in the sand and pretend certain issues didn't exist while they concentrated on tackling the issues that affected the wider working class. Maybe they believed this was for the greater good but let's not kid ourselves that they were champions of the Catholic communities of Scotland.

I don't say any of this lightly, I say this as a former Labour voter from a family where supporting Labour was almost like a religion in itself. Whatever noble objectives Labour once had they are all but gone these days and all that's left is the recent and not so recent unpalatable truth that they are opportunistic chancers who'll portray themselves as all things to all men/women to get themselves into power. For that reason I will continue to vote SNP and use them as a vehicle to achieve Independence. After that all bets are off and my vote will be up for grabs, who knows maybe then we'll get a Labour Party worth voting for.

HH mate (y)
 
Speaking of lengthy and extremely boring replies here's one for you Goldfinch :D(y) -

'SNP in the 1930's - Scottish jobs for Scottish Citizens - Irish go back to Ireland.'

Any actual evidence that the SNP ever said this Goldfinch? Can't find a single reference or quote anywhere on the net to back up any part of this claim. Not a single instance that the party ever held such a position or a single quote from any SNP member espousing such a view. Not having a go at you personally but it's a pretty damning accusation to make and I'd like to see some hard evidence before I accept such a claim as fact.

Also I'd just like to point out that the Labour Party itself isn't exactly squeaky clean when it comes to anti-immigrant sentiment. From the Labour Party founder and icon Keir Hardie who had some extreme anti-immigrant views himself, to Labour Party MP Oswald Mosley who established the British Union of Fascists and more recently there was Gordon Brown's 'British jobs for British worker's' rhetoric. I'm also sure you would find other examples of anti-immigrant rhetoric and other questionable views coming from people within the Labour Party if you wanted to go looking for it. So I think it's fair to say that any Labour politician or supporter pointing an accusing finger at others for trying to gain votes by targeting immigrants maybe need to reflect on their own party's history a wee bit.

'No Celtic forum should be slagging Labour'

Why not? Labour sit in coalition with the Tories in Scottish councils up and down the country. They have more Orange Order members as councillors than any other party in Scotland and therefore it's no surprise that some Labour run councils have been awarding public money to the Orange Order at a time when they've been complaining of austerity cuts and their budgets being at breaking point. And what about the fact that a Labour controlled Glasgow City Council not only conspired with Labour affiliated union bosses to deny their own workers proper recompense when it was exposed that they had been denying those workers fair and equal pay for years but they then spent millions in taxpayer's money to fight those workers through the courts to deny them proper compensation. If that wasn't bad enough what's even more shameful is the fact that when they lost Glasgow City Council to the SNP in the council elections they then, with the help of those same Labour affiliated union bosses, had the brass neck to organise a strike on behalf of those workers demanding that the new SNP led council immediately and without delay compensate the very same workers they themselves had been denying compensation to for over a decade!

Add to the mix that they've shamefully abstained on Tory welfare cuts at Westminster (some of which btw they have vowed to keep in place if they ever regained power) that have devastated the lives of the poor and disabled while consistently voting down additional powers being devolved to the Scottish Parliament that, could in part go some way to help alleviate some of the worst of the Tories austerity policies, then these are just a handful of reasons why the Labour Party should be getting 'slagged' and not just on Celtic forums.

Labour have served the Catholic community?

I think saying that the Labour Party has 'served' the Catholic community is stretching things a bit. Whilst I'd agree that the Labour Party originally set out to represent and protect those at the lower end of society and that both they and the Catholic community have historically had shared values when it came to certain social issues these issues were never specific to Catholics alone so Labour weren't exactly 'serving' the Catholic community but more the wider working class community as a whole. Also this was a mutually beneficial arrangement so let's not pretend this was a wholly altruistic act on Labour's part as they were rewarded with Catholic votes in return for taking on issues that were not just specific to Catholics.

In fact I think it's fair to say that Labour did a disservice to Catholics in certain areas. During Labour's near 60 year reign as the 'only party in Scotland' they not only ignored anti-Irish racism and anti-Catholic sentiment in society but it was during this time that Catholics were routinely discriminated against in the workplace, were paid less in some sectors and systematically kept out of management positions meaning their earning potential was limited? Why didn't Labour and the unions step in when that was common practice?

Truth is rather than 'serving' the Catholic community Labour expertly walked the fine line of the religious divide in Scotland as a way of maximising their own voter base. They couldn't afford to alienate either side of the divide so they chose to bury their heads in the sand and pretend certain issues didn't exist while they concentrated on tackling the issues that affected the wider working class. Maybe they believed this was for the greater good but let's not kid ourselves that they were champions of the Catholic communities of Scotland.

I don't say any of this lightly, I say this as a former Labour voter from a family where supporting Labour was almost like a religion in itself. Whatever noble objectives Labour once had they are all but gone these days and all that's left is the recent and not so recent unpalatable truth that they are opportunistic chancers who'll portray themselves as all things to all men/women to get themselves into power. For that reason I will continue to vote SNP and use them as a vehicle to achieve Independence. After that all bets are off and my vote will be up for grabs, who knows maybe then we'll get a Labour Party worth voting for.

HH mate (y)
The sad thing is, is that political ideology should never see, colour, creed, or faith.

Political ideology should always serve the people (not peepo) and should be an instrument for fairness and equality.

In a previous post, I mentioned a Labour MP who represented Dundee. It might have seemed a personal piece relating to the individual himself, but the point I was really trying to make was that the major parties have all been bought and sold by their various financial benefactors.

Having spent a good chunk of my youth being an active trade union layperson, I seen first-hand the influence of orangeyness within all the major unions in Scotland and how this influenced nominations within the Scottish Labour Party. God knows, I've had plenty of issues with the SNP down the tears, but I never felt they were beholden to corporate interests or union influence.

I do fear that they may be spending too much time trying to appeal to the majority faith group in this country and that's fine as most of them are alright. It's the braindead fundamentals (and I did mean mentals) that I worry that they're trying to elicit.

These peepo are long gone and it would be wise to just let them become extinct - just like the club they used to folly folly
 

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