I was born & brought up to be a catholic that fell by the wayside but I never stopped being a Celtic supporter & never will, yes Celtic is & probably forever will be a catholic club, we cannot forget our history. But as we all know it is inclusive to everyone as it's been from the start & will continue to be, we are family & as family we have fights with each other but still love the same club. Different opinions we will have but all under the banner of Celtic Football Club.
Why embracing Celtic's Catholic Roots is not something that should be contentious
- Thread starter Winning Captains
- Start date
Khenny
Well-known member
I, like the majority of the Scottish and Irish Celtic support, was born and brought up Catholic.
The Celtic support in the further flung reaches of the planet, unless they are descendants from the above, probably don't give a rat's ass about religion and its relationship with a game of football.
Unfortunately in Scotland the chances of disassociating our game from religion is about as likely as removing the sugar from your coffee once the hot water has been added.
I've made up my own mind about religion and decided many years ago that it was man that made God and not the other way round. That's MY strong belief and personal opinion, but I respect that everyone is entitled to their own stance on this thorniest of issues.
In my own view religion poisons most things and is, in many cases, the root cause of intolerance, class differences, exploitation, persecution, subjugation, control, enslavement and war.
I can't think of an upside to religion on a societal level at all.
My personal favourite for religious people trying to explain away disasters, child cancer etc, is that it's all part of God's plan.
Well I'm afraid you can't have freewill AND be part of an omnipotent creators plan. Either He's planned it all in advance, in which case you have no freewill, or you have freewill and if there is a God, He's not got a clue what's going on and is either powerless to stop it, or doesn't give a flying fk!
Anyway, that's my tuppence worth on religion.
Does it have a say in football? In this country I'm afraid it does.
Should it have a place in football? Absolutely not.
HH guys
ps
I'm not having a go at any post on here. I didn't read the article in the first post because I try and steer clear of religion wherever possible.
As I said we're all entitled to our personal opinions and I just thought I'd share mine.
The Celtic support in the further flung reaches of the planet, unless they are descendants from the above, probably don't give a rat's ass about religion and its relationship with a game of football.
Unfortunately in Scotland the chances of disassociating our game from religion is about as likely as removing the sugar from your coffee once the hot water has been added.
I've made up my own mind about religion and decided many years ago that it was man that made God and not the other way round. That's MY strong belief and personal opinion, but I respect that everyone is entitled to their own stance on this thorniest of issues.
In my own view religion poisons most things and is, in many cases, the root cause of intolerance, class differences, exploitation, persecution, subjugation, control, enslavement and war.
I can't think of an upside to religion on a societal level at all.
My personal favourite for religious people trying to explain away disasters, child cancer etc, is that it's all part of God's plan.
Well I'm afraid you can't have freewill AND be part of an omnipotent creators plan. Either He's planned it all in advance, in which case you have no freewill, or you have freewill and if there is a God, He's not got a clue what's going on and is either powerless to stop it, or doesn't give a flying fk!
Anyway, that's my tuppence worth on religion.
Does it have a say in football? In this country I'm afraid it does.
Should it have a place in football? Absolutely not.
HH guys
ps
I'm not having a go at any post on here. I didn't read the article in the first post because I try and steer clear of religion wherever possible.
As I said we're all entitled to our personal opinions and I just thought I'd share mine.
Son of a mixed religious mum and dad. Brought up with no real faith but was introduced to Celtic some 50 + years ago.
Happy to respect all beliefs and faiths but I'm a Celtic supporter. No discussion no debate and happy that my two sons are of similar belief.
Also I'm very clear that I do " know our history" and am very comfortable and indeed proud of it.
A club open to all is a fact not a marketing slogan.
HH
Happy to respect all beliefs and faiths but I'm a Celtic supporter. No discussion no debate and happy that my two sons are of similar belief.
Also I'm very clear that I do " know our history" and am very comfortable and indeed proud of it.
A club open to all is a fact not a marketing slogan.
HH
TET
Well-known member
You can plan in advance but still rely on your players to use their freewill to follow the plan.I, like the majority of the Scottish and Irish Celtic support, was born and brought up Catholic.
The Celtic support in the further flung reaches of the planet, unless they are descendants from the above, probably don't give a rat's ass about religion and its relationship with a game of football.
Unfortunately in Scotland the chances of disassociating our game from religion is about as likely as removing the sugar from your coffee once the hot water has been added.
I've made up my own mind about religion and decided many years ago that it was man that made God and not the other way round. That's MY strong belief and personal opinion, but I respect that everyone is entitled to their own stance on this thorniest of issues.
In my own view religion poisons most things and is, in many cases, the root cause of intolerance, class differences, exploitation, persecution, subjugation, control, enslavement and war.
I can't think of an upside to religion on a societal level at all.
My personal favourite for religious people trying to explain away disasters, child cancer etc, is that it's all part of God's plan.
Well I'm afraid you can't have freewill AND be part of an omnipotent creators plan. Either He's planned it all in advance, in which case you have no freewill, or you have freewill and if there is a God, He's not got a clue what's going on and is either powerless to stop it, or doesn't give a flying fk!
Anyway, that's my tuppence worth on religion.
Does it have a say in football? In this country I'm afraid it does.
Should it have a place in football? Absolutely not.
HH guys
ps
I'm not having a go at any post on here. I didn't read the article in the first post because I try and steer clear of religion wherever possible.
As I said we're all entitled to our personal opinions and I just thought I'd share mine.
freewill is not dependent on no plan imo
deliberately rebelling against the plan can only happen if you have freewill
It could also be that suffering is part of the bigger picture involving self discovery and the individual role you choose through freewill
without freewill their is no such thing as love
With freewill there is room to choose self determination
if you were predestined to be the best footballer ever as long as you try your hardest and trained your hardest every day
But decided to just get pished instead
the potential was there
it was a gift
it was rejected for pleasure rather than purpose
reality is harsh
its very cruel
if a lion sees you and is hungry it probably gonna try eat you
lots of suffering in that
but it was not the plan to hang around hungry lions
better to use your freewill to get as far away from hungry lions as possible, but sometimes you run into a hungry tiger in your flight
thats just life
but it doesn't nullify the bigger picture or the way you choose to live your life.
Anyway
You are allowed to have your opinion in freewill world
thats your choice, if it seems correct for you then follow your heart
Khenny
Well-known member
I understand the point you're trying to make but can't help thinking you're slightly confusing human planning versus the generally accepted (in religious circles at least) "God's plan" where He knows every move you make and ever will make from now to the end of time.
There is, and can be no free will in that plan. If He knows everything that HAS happened or WILL happen then free will under that scenario is a complete impossibility.
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TET
Well-known member
You canI understand the point you're trying to make but can't help thinking you're slightly confusing things that WE can plan and the generally accepted (in religious circles at least) "God's plan" where He knows every move you make and ever will make from now to the end of time.
There is, and can be no free will in that plan. If He knows everything that HAS happened or WILL happen then free will under that scenario is a complete impossibility.
I could try explain it to you. But I dont think it would be fruitful
Better to just try be best you can be despite all the confusion
that is the plan as far as im aware
TET
Well-known member
Freewill and plans are not mutually exclusiveI understand the point you're trying to make but can't help thinking you're slightly confusing things that WE can plan and the generally accepted (in religious circles at least) "God's plan" where He knows every move you make and ever will make from now to the end of time.
There is, and can be no free will in that plan. If He knows everything that HAS happened or WILL happen then free will under that scenario is a complete impossibility.
No matter who or what creates them.
if I know you are going to try something and I know its futile but you dont, does that make your practise of the something of which you probably get better at over time/ dedication, does that mean I took away your freewill by observing you try your plan?
Imatim
Well-known member
..............................they are protesting that they cant make up bits to suit themselves but instead of being honest about it they blame everybody and anybody else
they are the revolution
the glorious revolution for freedom of religion except the christianity most closely documented from the fathers and apostles elected by christ is NOT allowed
freedom of religion for revolutionary version of christianity but catholicism is banned coz the pope wears a pointy hat
All revolutionary movements are directly entwined with Protest
All revolutionaries are de facto protestant
Barabbas was a revolutionary, the world chose him rather than catholicism
All Christians are catholic.....just sayin...
TET
Well-known member
Some are orthodox
Some are unorthodox
Even some catholics misunderstand the reality of christianity
But it does seem likely that to get inside the city of god you need to be catholic in spirit even if you aren't in agreement with the hierarchy
Be the best you can be with your whole heart soul mind and spirit for the greater glory of the creator
humility is the foundation
love is the aim
the details of what you do in-between is life
but to reach love
you need the perfect foundation
humility
best guide was the virgin mother of christ
human in everyway
but through grace the greatest human being to ever live
the perfect guide for mankind
flawless humanity in action
humble yet full of superabundant love even for people who hated her.
Khenny
Well-known member
I was happy to leave things after your last post but you're trying to explain away an infallible God's plan by referencing a theoretical situation that might occur between you and me.
It's not a line of argument you can use to make that point a valid one I'm afraid. It doesn't stand up in court. You're essentially saying that we're on the same level, plan-wise, as the supposed creator of the universe!
While I appreciate the promotion to Supreme Being, I'm afraid I'll have to decline.
HH
TET
Well-known member
No im showing you that even on a human level your theory doesn't stack up, never mind jumping into dimensions of preternatural and supernatural being.I was happy to leave things after your last post but you're trying to explain away an infallible God's plan by referencing a theoretical situation that might occur between you and me.
It's not a line of argument you can use to make that point a valid one I'm afraid. It doesn't stand up in court. You're essentially saying that we're on the same level, plan-wise, as the supposed creator of the universe!
While I appreciate the promotion to Supreme Being, I'm afraid I'll have to decline.
HH
If the theory doesn't fit human reason then how can you subject god to a human plan that doesn't even apply to human will.
Imatim
Well-known member
.....................................Some are orthodox
Some are unorthodox
Even some catholics misunderstand the reality of christianity
But it does seem likely that to get inside the city of god you need to be catholic in spirit even if you aren't in agreement with the hierarchy
Be the best you can be with your whole heart soul mind and spirit for the greater glory of the creator
humility is the foundation
love is the aim
the details of what you do in-between is life
but to reach love
you need the perfect foundation
humility
best guide was the virgin mother of christ
human in everyway
but through grace the greatest human being to ever live
the perfect guide for mankind
flawless humanity in action
humble yet full of superabundant love even for people who hated her.
The word catholic (lowercase c; is derived from Late Latin catholicus, from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning "universal". All Christians belong to the 'small c' catholic church, that is, the Body of Christ.
TET
Well-known member
fruitful
just cant help some people
they prefer their freewill to deny they are created in time and space
But they got there by fluke
But still demand they have freewill.
You posed a dialectical presumption that is based on flawed logic
I tried to help you, kind of knew it would take this route, but wasn't sure, and it seems the predetermined reaction came true
in flawed logic that meant I knew your freewill was limited to my caressing your false presupposition rather than try open your mind to deeper reality of your flawed logic I should have just left you in the mire?
But where is the love in leaving someone stuck in the mire?
the risks of doing the right thing
TET
Well-known member
TET
Well-known member
Aye my klan sheet is floating around some old castle giving people the herby jeebies.............................
You’re splitting spirits there ma man...
:
Imatim
Well-known member
.....................fruitful
just cant help some people
they prefer their freewill to deny they are created in time and space
But they got there by fluke
But still demand they have freewill.
You posed a dialectical presumption that is based on flawed logic
I tried to help you, kind of knew it would take this route, but wasn't sure, and it seems the predetermined reaction came true
in flawed logic that meant I knew your freewill was limited to my caressing your false presupposition rather than try open your mind to deeper reality of your flawed logic I should have just left you in the mire?
But where is the love in leaving someone stuck in the mire?
the risks of doing the right thing
Do I hear an Amen?...
Ally
Well-known member
Imo religion dose not matter in which football club you support. Religion becomes important when choosing a prime minister as Catholics exempted from high office. You could also argue Labour Party Catholic Conservative party protestant. Only one Catholic president of America. Its obvious to me that Catholics in Britain and America can't attain high office. No problems in Europe and Asia. Society at large has the problem with Catholics in high office rather than be bothered about football teams.
Khenny
Well-known member
fruitful
just cant help some people
they prefer their freewill to deny they are created in time and space
But they got there by fluke
But still demand they have freewill.
You posed a dialectical presumption that is based on flawed logic
I tried to help you, kind of knew it would take this route, but wasn't sure, and it seems the predetermined reaction came true
in flawed logic that meant I knew your freewill was limited to my caressing your false presupposition rather than try open your mind to deeper reality of your flawed logic I should have just left you in the mire?
But where is the love in leaving someone stuck in the mire?
the risks of doing the right thing
You've tried to help me?
The risks of doing the right thing?
Assuming I'm in denial?
I stated at the start that people are entitled to their own opinions and I meant that.
I only wanted to put mine out there "for the record" so to speak but you felt the need to reply.
I tried to be nice and say you were perhaps confusing the issue by comparing human plans to Gods' ones.
Since you've now alluded that I need help and you're the one to give it then I'm afraid you leave me no choice.
Your arguments weren't a little wide of the mark regarding the subject matter, they were a millions miles off the target.
You clearly don't, can't, or flat out refuse to understand the point I was making.
I can't debate with someone who has little to no grasp of the subject matter so we'll leave it here if you don't mind.
Feel free to have the last word, I'm done.
HH
