The burden of the Ten and THE REALLY BIG CONCERN

Celtic Ghostie

Well-known member
Hit me point by point with this rambling post everybody. The following are genuine concerns or opinions of mine.
1. It can be argued that we did not spend wisely but the board DID back NL by retaining all our big hitters and investing 17 million in the squad = Agreed ?
2 .Are Biton, Eddy and El Hamed still struggling for fitness ( post Covid ) ? Are Ajeti and Griff still not up to speed ? on top of Jamesy, Julienne, Johnstone and Ajer ?. Then the worst ( for me ) are we missing the discarded mental strength of Lustig, Hayes and Gordon ? or is it simply our ( Brendans ) regime of fitness and discipline that's been allowed to slide ?
3. Its unbelievable that a side depleted by the virus and a four week suspension of their season so far completely ran us off the park - Is the answer in 2 or 4 or 5 of this post ?
4. I think we all feel that the whole squad is underperforming ( Laxalt excepted ) Is it the psychological burden of the ten that's dragging the whole club backwards ? ( if that's the answer the season is already lost )
5. I love NFL but is he too easily outfoxed tactically - He goes 3-5-2 and Sparta adjust their formation within 5 minutes to negate it. In the main NFL waits till 70 minutes then has a shot at something else ? Too predictable ?
6. But here is my greatest concern fellow Celts. The boards commendable financial commitment to the ten in conjunction with the massive corona driven decline in revenue plus the disastrous loss of meaningful european revenue and the rapidly declining ( corona driven ) value of players could drag us back to the same level of financial impotence as the noisy neighbours and far too close to the pre Fergus days.
7. Too pessimistic ? too Negative ? or far too possible ? šŸ‘»šŸ‘»šŸ‘»
 
I don't have the answers, CU, but all of the scenarios and hypothesis you present are far too realistic and are currently unfolding in real time.

I don't believe the decline is terminal, but it does require immediate intensive surgery to stop the bleeding and to stabilise the patient.

Physical and mental fitness is a glaring concern. The players look like they're wearing lead boots while also carrying the heavy burden of 10 upon their shoulders.

I also share your concerns about how we may haemorrhage our cash reserves. The only positive aspect of this dilemma is, is that for however much money we are losing, then that issue has to multiplied tenfold for our main rivals.

It's little consolation as things currently stand.

Very thoughtful and well-intentioned OP, CU. No hysteria or melodrama, just a defined series of issues which should concern us all.
 
Hit me point by point with this rambling post everybody. The following are genuine concerns or opinions of mine.
1. It can be argued that we did not spend wisely but the board DID back NL by retaining all our big hitters and investing 17 million in the squad = Agreed ?
2 .Are Biton, Eddy and El Hamed still struggling for fitness ( post Covid ) ? Are Ajeti and Griff still not up to speed ? on top of Jamesy, Julienne, Johnstone and Ajer ?. Then the worst ( for me ) are we missing the discarded mental strength of Lustig, Hayes and Gordon ? or is it simply our ( Brendans ) regime of fitness and discipline that's been allowed to slide ?
3. Its unbelievable that a side depleted by the virus and a four week suspension of their season so far completely ran us off the park - Is the answer in 2 or 4 or 5 of this post ?
4. I think we all feel that the whole squad is underperforming ( Laxalt excepted ) Is it the psychological burden of the ten that's dragging the whole club backwards ? ( if that's the answer the season is already lost )
5. I love NFL but is he too easily outfoxed tactically - He goes 3-5-2 and Sparta adjust their formation within 5 minutes to negate it. In the main NFL waits till 70 minutes then has a shot at something else ? Too predictable ?
6. But here is my greatest concern fellow Celts. The boards commendable financial commitment to the ten in conjunction with the massive corona driven decline in revenue plus the disastrous loss of meaningful european revenue and the rapidly declining ( corona driven ) value of players could drag us back to the same level of financial impotence as the noisy neighbours and far too close to the pre Fergus days.
7. Too pessimistic ? too Negative ? or far too possible ? šŸ‘»šŸ‘»šŸ‘»
Players fitness is a real issue why is it taking so long to get upto speed? After last nite I now believe theres something far wrong at our training ground and I'm not sure it can/will be fixed if we didn't get the ten through a good challenge by them and it was neck n neck thru the season then we cud accept eventually losing the league especially after three maybe four trebles and 9 leagues in a row but we are just giving they bastards the league with no fuckin fight I'm really worried noo
 
Good post CU. I feel like I could post an essay on each of your points but will give you my brief thoughts on each, looking at things in the cold light of day.

1. NL as you say has been backed and even though he may not be having the final say on who is coming in, he must have known that was the way it would be working when he came back. Even allowing for the odd mis-step in the transfers, he still has a squad overflowing with talent to work with.
2. Fitness seems to be a big issue, and Iā€™m not talking about injuries because they are a fact of life. We have looked out on our feet after 60 minutes in each of the last few games, plus the lack of urgency in our play seems to me to stem from players trying to conserve energy to get them through the game.
3. Yep, definitely in a combination of these three points but I think mainly it stems from fitness as my point above.
4. Iā€˜m not sure about this one - we have a team thatā€™s won the last 11 trophies and on the verge of the quad treb - why should they suddenly be getting the jitters? I donā€™t really know what the answer to that might be.
5. Unfortunately yes, he does not seem to be very astute tactically. Last 3 games against ā€œthemā€ we have been played off the park yet not come up with a way to counter it. He obviously needs some help on that side of things in same way Sevco have with Beale. Trouble is whether NL thinks that is the case or if he thinks he is tactically aware.
6. Last accounts showed us breaking even last year and that was due to the impact of corona at the end of the season and BEFORE we spent the money on transfers. One - or more - of Eddy, Ajer, Ntcham, even CalMac are going to go in January. I think we need to be aware thatā€™s going to happen.
7. Very possible, and unfortunately I think you are being realistically pessimistic šŸ˜•

Unfortunately, I think the upshot is that NL, unless he changes things VERY quickly, will carry the can for this.
 
Good summation of the issues.
If I can pick one that really gets me. If you take Ntcham, mcgregor and Christie as examples only we have three players, midfielder s, who can't go 70 minutes ( Lille) without looking knackered. We have Griff ajeti and klimala three forwards who we can't get fit for over three months.
They are full time professional footballers fitness is a minimum requirement. As a club scoring in the last ten minutes of games was a feature. Not now.
If we get them fit, confidence follows and we get results.
I know this might be simplistic but I recall the phrase has work only beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. To work hard you need fitness. We are singularity lacking in that regard
My opinion
HH
 
Lennon was the correct choice to take over for the 6months after Rogers left of that thereā€™s no doubt.
But that time should have been spent by the board to find a manager of the same calibre as him and I donā€™t mean potchitino and fantasy managers like that.
There r dozens of young hungry up and coming managers out there who would jump at the chance to manage a club like Celtic.
For Lawell and co to not do this and then at full time after the cup final announce Lennon as permanent manager was a catastrophic mistake which I think will have dire consequences.
 
Good summation of the issues.
If I can pick one that really gets me. If you take Ntcham, mcgregor and Christie as examples only we have three players, midfielder s, who can't go 70 minutes ( Lille) without looking knackered. We have Griff ajeti and klimala three forwards who we can't get fit for over three months.
They are full time professional footballers fitness is a minimum requirement. As a club scoring in the last ten minutes of games was a feature. Not now.
If we get them fit, confidence follows and we get results.
I know this might be simplistic but I recall the phrase has work only beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. To work hard you need fitness. We are singularity lacking in that regard
My opinion
HH
The thing is that it is going to be pretty much impossible to regain those high levels of fitness for the next few months as we are playing 2 matches per week. If our players start knocking their pans in during non-match days then that totally screws up their recovery periods, etc., so they will be even more tired during matches. Unless they are one of the fringe players who are not getting any game time (and there are plenty of them). All of this data should be available and being scrutinised as every player wears trackers during each training session and match to monitor many variables.
 
The thing is that it is going to be pretty much impossible to regain those high levels of fitness for the next few months as we are playing 2 matches per week. If our players start knocking their pans in during non-match days then that totally screws up their recovery periods, etc., so they will be even more tired during matches. Unless they are one of the fringe players who are not getting any game time (and there are plenty of them). All of this data should be available and being scrutinised as every player wears trackers during each training session and match to monitor many variables.
Bridie
The three forwards are certainly not playing three games a week and the midfielders physiology should be highlighting why they have issues.
Not disagreeing but totally frustrated with it just now.
HH, mate.
 
Lennon was the correct choice to take over for the 6months after Rogers left of that thereā€™s no doubt.
But that time should have been spent by the board to find a manager of the same calibre as him and I donā€™t mean potchitino and fantasy managers like that.
There r dozens of young hungry up and coming managers out there who would jump at the chance to manage a club like Celtic.
For Lawell and co to not do this and then at full time after the cup final announce Lennon as permanent manager was a catastrophic mistake which I think will have dire consequences.
K
We debated this at length at the time. That ship has sailed and we duly supported, quite rightly, the manager. Where we are now certainly emphasises your view and one that was widely shared previously. But where we go now is the pressing question, the answer to which I believe will come after the Motherwell game. Dermot either wields the axe. Or brings in a consultant director of football ( strachan?) Doing nothing is surely not an option
HH
 
Bridie
The three forwards are certainly not playing three games a week and the midfielders physiology should be highlighting why they have issues.
Not disagreeing but totally frustrated with it just now.
HH, mate.
No worries Lmc - we are all totally scunnered by it. Players coming back from injuries too are not helping fitness levels. Most of this hard work needs to be done before the season started. I think the mid-season breaks to Dubai where the team could work hard on fitness helped give us a boost in the second half of the season - we won't have it this time round, so the players should have been worked harder during lockdown and at the start of the season.
 
K
We debated this at length at the time. That ship has sailed and we duly supported, quite rightly, the manager. Where we are now certainly emphasises your view and one that was widely shared previously. But where we go now is the pressing question, the answer to which I believe will come after the Motherwell game. Dermot either wields the axe. Or brings in a consultant director of football ( strachan?) Doing nothing is surely not an option
K
We debated this at length at the time. That ship has sailed and we duly supported, quite rightly, the manager. Where we are now certainly emphasises your view and one that was widely shared previously. But where we go now is the pressing question, the answer to which I believe will come after the Motherwell game. Dermot either wields the axe. Or brings in a consultant director of football ( strachan?) Doing nothing is surely not an option
HH
I did think at the time it was a mistake to giv Lenny the job full time but like yourself I did get behind him and wanted it to work.
Weā€™re we go from here is anyoneā€™s guess we have the best players in the league but itā€™s clear to see we r not a team if we leave it any longer I fear it will b to late.
 
Hit me point by point with this rambling post everybody. The following are genuine concerns or opinions of mine.
1. It can be argued that we did not spend wisely but the board DID back NL by retaining all our big hitters and investing 17 million in the squad = Agreed ?
2 .Are Biton, Eddy and El Hamed still struggling for fitness ( post Covid ) ? Are Ajeti and Griff still not up to speed ? on top of Jamesy, Julienne, Johnstone and Ajer ?. Then the worst ( for me ) are we missing the discarded mental strength of Lustig, Hayes and Gordon ? or is it simply our ( Brendans ) regime of fitness and discipline that's been allowed to slide ?
3. Its unbelievable that a side depleted by the virus and a four week suspension of their season so far completely ran us off the park - Is the answer in 2 or 4 or 5 of this post ?
4. I think we all feel that the whole squad is underperforming ( Laxalt excepted ) Is it the psychological burden of the ten that's dragging the whole club backwards ? ( if that's the answer the season is already lost )
5. I love NFL but is he too easily outfoxed tactically - He goes 3-5-2 and Sparta adjust their formation within 5 minutes to negate it. In the main NFL waits till 70 minutes then has a shot at something else ? Too predictable ?
6. But here is my greatest concern fellow Celts. The boards commendable financial commitment to the ten in conjunction with the massive corona driven decline in revenue plus the disastrous loss of meaningful european revenue and the rapidly declining ( corona driven ) value of players could drag us back to the same level of financial impotence as the noisy neighbours and far too close to the pre Fergus days.
7. Too pessimistic ? too Negative ? or far too possible ? šŸ‘»šŸ‘»šŸ‘»
Griff isnt underperforming and should be starting with ajeti
 
I do not disagree with anything said here. But for me you assume an appropriate level of fitness to be a given, for a professional footballer.
Then we need:
1. Proper defensive tactics and coaching.
2. If we get this right, I believe we have far superior midfield and attacking options than any other club in the country.
3. It has been patently obvious for a long time now now that our defensive coaches (?) and tactics are not up to the job.
4. Get rid of them now, and replace them immediately, now. No matter who they are.
5. Neil Lennon to be told he has until the St. Johnstone match ( 6th December ) to get this sorted.
6. If he's unhappy then accept his resignation.
7. If tactical assistance is needed for him, then bring somebody in to advise and help him.( It's the least we owe him).
8. If it hasn't changed things. Then a new manager.
9. Use the time to start looking at serious potential options.
10. A no nonsense approach to players who are not putting in the work. Leave them out of the matchday squad. Hook them early in a match if need be. Drop them for the next match. Irrespective of who it is.
The message soon gets across.
The TIAR is not at all beyond saving. This opportunity will probably never present itself again. Anybody who is not up for this prize deserves to be thrown under the bus.
If they do not want immortality then we do not want them, be it Board, management, coaches or players. Be gone, if it is asking too much of you.
 
Lennon was the correct choice to take over for the 6months after Rogers left of that thereā€™s no doubt.
But that time should have been spent by the board to find a manager of the same calibre as him and I donā€™t mean potchitino and fantasy managers like that.
There r dozens of young hungry up and coming managers out there who would jump at the chance to manage a club like Celtic.
For Lawell and co to not do this and then at full time after the cup final announce Lennon as permanent manager was a catastrophic mistake which I think will have dire consequences.
He ticked every box Kakhanded that Lawwell was looking for especially the yes man Lawwell was looking for,the last thing he wanted was another Rogers in his face about getting new faces in i.e.John McGinn..springs to mind..
Lenny told us in 2013-14 when he left for the greener grass that he had taken Celtic as far as he could and it was time for a change,,why the change of heart ??

HH.
 
Good post CU. I feel like I could post an essay on each of your points but will give you my brief thoughts on each, looking at things in the cold light of day.

1. NL as you say has been backed and even though he may not be having the final say on who is coming in, he must have known that was the way it would be working when he came back. Even allowing for the odd mis-step in the transfers, he still has a squad overflowing with talent to work with.
2. Fitness seems to be a big issue, and Iā€™m not talking about injuries because they are a fact of life. We have looked out on our feet after 60 minutes in each of the last few games, plus the lack of urgency in our play seems to me to stem from players trying to conserve energy to get them through the game.
3. Yep, definitely in a combination of these three points but I think mainly it stems from fitness as my point above.
4. Iā€˜m not sure about this one - we have a team thatā€™s won the last 11 trophies and on the verge of the quad treb - why should they suddenly be getting the jitters? I donā€™t really know what the answer to that might be.
5. Unfortunately yes, he does not seem to be very astute tactically. Last 3 games against ā€œthemā€ we have been played off the park yet not come up with a way to counter it. He obviously needs some help on that side of things in same way Sevco have with Beale. Trouble is whether NL thinks that is the case or if he thinks he is tactically aware.
6. Last accounts showed us breaking even last year and that was due to the impact of corona at the end of the season and BEFORE we spent the money on transfers. One - or more - of Eddy, Ajer, Ntcham, even CalMac are going to go in January. I think we need to be aware thatā€™s going to happen.
7. Very possible, and unfortunately I think you are being realistically pessimistic šŸ˜•

Unfortunately, I think the upshot is that NL, unless he changes things VERY quickly, will carry the can for this.
Thanks for the reply my friend. Whatever the issues they seem to have permeated the club from top to bottom - its mystifying
 
Hit me point by point with this rambling post everybody. The following are genuine concerns or opinions of mine.
1. It can be argued that we did not spend wisely but the board DID back NL by retaining all our big hitters and investing 17 million in the squad = Agreed ?
2 .Are Biton, Eddy and El Hamed still struggling for fitness ( post Covid ) ? Are Ajeti and Griff still not up to speed ? on top of Jamesy, Julienne, Johnstone and Ajer ?. Then the worst ( for me ) are we missing the discarded mental strength of Lustig, Hayes and Gordon ? or is it simply our ( Brendans ) regime of fitness and discipline that's been allowed to slide ?
3. Its unbelievable that a side depleted by the virus and a four week suspension of their season so far completely ran us off the park - Is the answer in 2 or 4 or 5 of this post ?
4. I think we all feel that the whole squad is underperforming ( Laxalt excepted ) Is it the psychological burden of the ten that's dragging the whole club backwards ? ( if that's the answer the season is already lost )
5. I love NFL but is he too easily outfoxed tactically - He goes 3-5-2 and Sparta adjust their formation within 5 minutes to negate it. In the main NFL waits till 70 minutes then has a shot at something else ? Too predictable ?
6. But here is my greatest concern fellow Celts. The boards commendable financial commitment to the ten in conjunction with the massive corona driven decline in revenue plus the disastrous loss of meaningful european revenue and the rapidly declining ( corona driven ) value of players could drag us back to the same level of financial impotence as the noisy neighbours and far too close to the pre Fergus days.
7. Too pessimistic ? too Negative ? or far too possible ? šŸ‘»šŸ‘»šŸ‘»
Sorry to tag this onto my own post guys but see if you can relate to this. I have interfaced with maybe 50 or 60 other Tims ( family, pals, punters in the taxi etc )since this post and the common thread is despondency . If I had taken a poll it would be roughly this.
Burden of the ten affecting ?
a) Players ? 90%
b) Coaches ? 100%
c) Fans ? 75%%
d) The club ? 100%
Contributory factors ?
Tactical incompetence (Manager and coaches ) ? 90%
Lack of leadership ( Manager/coaches ) 70%
Lack of effort ( players) ? 30%
Lack of direction (players) 70%
Lack of effort ( Coaching Staff ) ? 0%
Dressing room lost ? 25%
Situation recoverable 25%

This is not put forward as an accurate barometer but it does feel as if our confidence in hitting our target is dwindling.
P.s. I can't revert to Celtic Ultra till 6th December
 
Hit me point by point with this rambling post everybody. The following are genuine concerns or opinions of mine.
1. It can be argued that we did not spend wisely but the board DID back NL by retaining all our big hitters and investing 17 million in the squad = Agreed ?
2 .Are Biton, Eddy and El Hamed still struggling for fitness ( post Covid ) ? Are Ajeti and Griff still not up to speed ? on top of Jamesy, Julienne, Johnstone and Ajer ?. Then the worst ( for me ) are we missing the discarded mental strength of Lustig, Hayes and Gordon ? or is it simply our ( Brendans ) regime of fitness and discipline that's been allowed to slide ?
3. Its unbelievable that a side depleted by the virus and a four week suspension of their season so far completely ran us off the park - Is the answer in 2 or 4 or 5 of this post ?
4. I think we all feel that the whole squad is underperforming ( Laxalt excepted ) Is it the psychological burden of the ten that's dragging the whole club backwards ? ( if that's the answer the season is already lost )
5. I love NFL but is he too easily outfoxed tactically - He goes 3-5-2 and Sparta adjust their formation within 5 minutes to negate it. In the main NFL waits till 70 minutes then has a shot at something else ? Too predictable ?
6. But here is my greatest concern fellow Celts. The boards commendable financial commitment to the ten in conjunction with the massive corona driven decline in revenue plus the disastrous loss of meaningful european revenue and the rapidly declining ( corona driven ) value of players could drag us back to the same level of financial impotence as the noisy neighbours and far too close to the pre Fergus days.
7. Too pessimistic ? too Negative ? or far too possible ? šŸ‘»šŸ‘»šŸ‘»
I still believe we have best squad in league

But our system doesn't play to their strengths and all too often exposes out weakest areas.

Change system to better more useful and more solid system and we win league

But system change can be bad short term

But we need to change system asap and utilise our vast squad in more meaningful tactics that support each other doesn't totally drain the players by having them charge up and down fruitlessly and does utilise more coherent use off ball to tire out opps better than we currently do.

shorter passing with actual plan and specific instructions for our weaker players and their support to help them stay solid

easy said harder to implement

but we have talent just a really woeful current system
 

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