The board have decided to downsize the club

TET said:
Just out 0f curiosity

What does upsizing look like and who pays the extra not generated by the club?

What wage budget per season is up sizing?
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Again TET you like to ask the question regarding budgets when you or no one else can answer for sure.
What we can question is why have we such a high wage bill as currently the case with so little in return.
We can question the amount spent on loan signings again getting fuck all in return.
So downsizing to me is reducing a wage bill with so much money squandered on dead wood.
Upsizing would be investing in far better quality than the amount of del boy signings we have done over the last number of years.
Can that be done on the current budget? Then I would say yes with the right operaters in place.
 
John nó said:
Again TET you like to ask the question regarding budgets when you or no one else can answer for sure.
What we can question is why have we such a high wage bill as currently the case with so little in return.
We can question the amount spent on loan signings again getting fuck all in return.
So downsizing to me is reducing a wage bill with so much money squandered on dead wood.
Upsizing would be investing in far better quality than the amount of del boy signings we have done over the last number of years.
Can that be done on the current budget? Then I would say yes with the right operaters in place.
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What would you have as the budget each season?

Is it ok to make up unsubstantiated claims about downsizing based on abstracted and insufficient financial (or worse speculative over estimations of income) without looking at the associated costs?

Simple questions

What is the income Celtic can get from winning treble in Scotland? Approx guess will do
What is the potential added income from CL?

What is the total income approx club should be aiming for each season?

What is worse case scenario income?
What is best case scenario income?

What are your optimal wage levels in each case?
 
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TET said:
What would you have as the budget each season?

Is it ok to make up unsubstantiated claims about downsizing based on abstracted and insufficient financial (or worse speculative over estimations of income without looking at the associated costs?

Simple questions

What is the income you get from winning treble in Scotland? Approx guess will do
What is the potential added income from CL?

What is the total income approx club should be aiming for each season?

What is worse case scenario income?
What is best case scenario income?

What are your optimal wage levels in each case?
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Why do you ask so many questions that you can't answer yourself.
You like to try and confuse an issue without any substance whatsoever.
A simple observation is the club are guilty of squandering more money over the past 2 seasons with very little in return and not on the quality that is expected to get the club back into competing again in CL football by
 
John nó said:
Why do you ask so many questions that you can't answer yourself.
You like to try and confuse an issue without any substance whatsoever.
A simple observation is the club are guilty of squandering more money over the past 2 seasons with very little in return and not on the quality that is expected to get the club back into competing again in CL football by
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Absolutely false.

These are very basic questions that can indicate whether club is downsizing

Im not confusing any issue

Nothing I asked is confusing

Especially if your of the belief the club is cheating you out of your dreams.

If you dont think they are kosher, based on downsizing claims, then you must have figures to back up your theory.

So im asking you. If you believe club are downsizing then show me the better way

You might be right.

But if you claim you dont know? How can you be sure you aren't maliciously accusing people of being incompetent based on unknown factors that you have decided must be true.

Simple rough projections to see if the better plan has any arms and legs will do.
 
Ill give you some figures very approx but I think they are decent starting point.

If Celtic win treble income approx 40M
If they get Champions league Aprrox extra 50 million

total top end estimate per season 100M

treble plus EL group approx 75M

not winning any trophies and dumped out europe before group stages 30M

So you have 30M as worst case
roughly 100M income if you have a really good season


Now what costs levels of the top end expected income should club be around in order to grow each season?
 
TET said:
Ill give you some figures very approx but I think they are decent starting point.

If Celtic win treble income approx 40M
If they get Champions league Aprrox extra 50 million

total top end estimate per season 100M

treble plus EL group approx 75M

not winning any trophies and dumped out europe before group stages 30M

So you have 30M as worst case
roughly 100M income if you have a really good season


Now what costs levels of the top end expected income should club be around in order to grow each season?
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You never put in the guaranteed ST money within them figures and long ago stated that a 50m budget is sustainable for a club of our size to maintain and be able to grow from.
We have seriously lacked ambition to do so and can only assume it is for the benefit of serco scum and not of our supporters which I will claim as an act of treason made by our board of current
 
John nó said:
You never put in the guaranteed ST money within them figures and long ago stated that a 50m budget is sustainable for a club of our size to maintain and be able to grow from.
We have seriously lacked ambition to do so and can only assume it is for the benefit of serco scum and not of our supporters which I will claim as an act of treason made by our board of current
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Oh I did

those figures are my estimates with all income included.

But im happy to change them based on better estimates.

Our operating costs each season are usually over 75Million

More if we reach CL

roughly 90M

So with our current set up we make around 10 million profit if we reach CL

not much room to gamble with on better upgrades.

if we dont reach CL we break even on our current set up, in a normal season without covid.

if we fuck up and win jack we lose around 35 Million that season based on historic operating costs

throw in covid and the incomes are really hammered but the operating costs like Pauli say Feck you Pay me.


So in our set up currently we need to sell players on our top end wages who are being offered more elsewhere.

replacing that high grade player with unknown quantity often costs fortune and doesnt guarantee he any good for us.

So our current set up is right on the edge of break even in good season

But in bad season we are likely to incur heavy losses

not much upside for growth
lot of danger if we make a few bad signings

But feck it

most big league clubs get more from tv deals than we get as top end income

And that seriously hampers the market we can buy from, which further increases risks



But in that crazy market we won 9 in a row

But coz we are right on edge of break even every season we cant grow.

But still there must be a better way

Surely they tory rats are scamming us

We should be capable of competing with clubs who earn 200M every season as low end estimate

And surely we should be able to play flamboyant attacking football just coz we are Celtic
 
TET said:
Oh I did

those figures are my estimates with all income included.

But im happy to change them based on better estimates.

Our operating costs each season are usually over 75Million

More if we reach CL

roughly 90M

So with our current set up we make around 10 million profit if we reach CL

not much room to gamble with on better upgrades.

if we dont reach CL we break even on our current set up, in a normal season without covid.

if we fuck up and win jack we lose around 35 Million that season based on historic operating costs

throw in covid and the incomes are really hammered but the operating costs like Pauli say Feck you Pay me.


So in our set up currently we need to sell players on our top end wages who are being offered more elsewhere.

replacing that high grade player with unknown quantity often costs fortune and doesnt guarantee he any good for us.

So our current set up is right on the edge of break even in good season

But in bad season we are likely to incur heavy losses

not much upside for growth
lot of danger if we make a few bad signings

But feck it

most big league clubs get more from tv deals than we get as top end income

And that seriously hampers the market we can buy from, which further increases risks



But in that crazy market we won 9 in a row

But coz we are right on edge of break even every season we cant grow.

But still there must be a better way

Surely they tory rats are scamming us

We should be capable of competing with clubs who earn 200M every season as low end estimate

And surely we should be able to play flamboyant attacking football just coz we are Celtic
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To long winded TET.
I am claiming the current money been paid out in wages can be paid to far better quality than we have at present as we are currently so overloaded with players that is only is a waste of money, plus the loan signings are a waste of money, so cut costs on crap and invest in better quality is a vision I can see without the scaremongering you are trying to imply
 
I don't think we were cheap at all last summer, we kept Eddy (which we all doubted) we spent 5m on The Headless Goalkeeper, 5m on Ajeti, fuck knows how much on Duffy, Laxalt, Moi etc. I think we spent plenty, more to do with shit choices than lack of investment in my opinion.
 
Hoopy427 said:
I don't think we were cheap at all last summer, we kept Eddy (which we all doubted) we spent 5m on The Headless Goalkeeper, 5m on Ajeti, fuck knows how much on Duffy, Laxalt, Moi etc. I think we spent plenty, more to do with shit choices than lack of investment in my opinion.
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looks like Eddie had a move sorted in summer and we rejected it

The first quotes in print from anyone at club to confirm this

Explains going from Les bleus to le merde

www.heraldscotland.com

Neil Lennon says there would have been 'complete uproar' had Celtic sold wantaway stars last summer

WITH the benefit of hindsight, the decision taken by Celtic in the summer to hold onto some of their best players - even if a few of them didn’t…
www.heraldscotland.com www.heraldscotland.com
 
Smelltheglove said:
looks like Eddie had a move sorted in summer and we rejected it

The first quotes in print from anyone at club to confirm this

Explains going from Les bleus to le merde

www.heraldscotland.com

Neil Lennon says there would have been 'complete uproar' had Celtic sold wantaway stars last summer

WITH the benefit of hindsight, the decision taken by Celtic in the summer to hold onto some of their best players - even if a few of them didn’t…
www.heraldscotland.com www.heraldscotland.com
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Deja vu, Boyata eh? 🤷‍♂️
 
John nó said:
To long winded TET.
I am claiming the current money been paid out in wages can be paid to far better quality than we have at present as we are currently so overloaded with players that is only is a waste of money, plus the loan signings are a waste of money, so cut costs on crap and invest in better quality is a vision I can see without the scaremongering you are trying to imply
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No pal Im no scaremongering

Im asking you to get real

You totally overlook the real factors involved and point fingers a bit like lennon.

You think it can be done better with no actual evidense or factors to explain a better plan and how its funded

I say it can be done.

You say it can be done by being more risky

Im sating we are already too risky to go more risky

this thread OP

suggests we are downsizing

You are now claiming we should downsize wages but upgrade players and im asking you to show me a model that fits Celtics problems better than current model

I have said zero about scaremongering, I am pointing out why I dont think we have downsized

But we are spending too much on operations currently to be classed as downsizing

Unless im missing some glaring obvious income streams and thats why im asking to see your better plan even in a very approximate fashion would do to see if it stacks up against your ambitions
 
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TET said:
No pal Im no scaremongering

Im asking you to get real

You totally overlook the real factors involved and point fingers a bit like lennon.

You think it can be done better with no actual evidense or factors to explain a better plan and how its funded

I say it can be done.

You say it can be done by being more risky

Im sating we are already too risky to go more risky

this thread OP

suggests we are downsizing

You are now claiming we should downsize wages but upgrade players and im asking you to show me a model that fits Celtics problems better than current model

I have said zero about scaremongering, I am pointing out why I dont think we have downsized

But we are spending too much on operations currently to be classed as downsizing

Unless im missing some glaring obvious income streams and thats why im asking to see your better plan even in a very approximate fashion would do to see if it stacks up against your ambitions
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TET you are way off the mark and now trying to manipulate things by trying to change the points I am making to justify your own claims.
I find myself constantly going around in circles because you refuse to look at the obvious.
I don't know how I can make this any simpler for you but I will try yet again.
At a guess I would say we are currently running at 10m on wasted wages between loans and an oversized playing squad that's without the squandered money on 2 out of 3 signings that look like been very poor investments.
That tells me that huge cut backs can and need to be made to stop bleeding money down the drain.
So a 10m saving could pay for at least 5 better investment than we have at present.
Throw in the savings on the want away players will possibly generate enough for say 4 for replacements.
So there is the rebuilding of a team without this huge outlay that you try to claim as risks.
They would only be so high risk as the people currently making these decisions are getting them so badly wrong which has led to a decline in where are preformance should be not an improvement.
It's called a restructor of the club for gains to be make with a far better structure on how money is spent and the investments required.
More money will possibly be needed now to get a proper management team in place which will need extra funding which is also maintainable from money in the bank and also player sales.
We are still in a sound enough financial position to make the adjustments needed to get us back to where we should be.
Now if you have a better outlook then we would all love to hear it, as we are yet to hear of any from you but plenty about why it can't so over to you
 
John nó said:
To long winded TET.
I am claiming the current money been paid out in wages can be paid to far better quality than we have at present as we are currently so overloaded with players that is only is a waste of money, plus the loan signings are a waste of money, so cut costs on crap and invest in better quality is a vision I can see without the scaremongering you are trying to imply
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That's a great point invest bit heavier in first team n have the up n coming youngsters on the bench get rid of all dead wood concentrate on a smaller better squad if we bought properly we cud end up with good europa league team actually compete in Europe build that way to hopefully not get embarrassed in the champs league anymore awr sounds so easy aswell🤣🤣
 
Cairnsybhoy79 said:
That's a great point invest bit heavier in first team n have the up n coming youngsters on the bench get rid of all dead wood concentrate on a smaller better squad if we bought properly we cud end up with good europa league team actually compete in Europe build that way to hopefully not get embarrassed in the champs league anymore awr sounds so easy aswell🤣🤣
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It was what I believe BR snake had in mind but PL traitor had one more obsessed with a rebirth of an "Old firm" brand with a puppet to oversee it,
 
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