As a club, our main problem isn’t Rodgers leaving, it’s Lawell staying

Kakhanded

Well-known member
#23
Kakhanded, the issue is more the former than the latter. Celtic have money in the bank and are very profitable even without Champions League money or transfer profit. There’s money to increase wages, albeit not everyone can be on £50k/week.

But if the club wanted to have a handful of players, say no more than 4 or 5, on high wages, they could probably go as high as £75k/week without running recurring losses. And if that helped the club achieve Champions League even once every 5-10 years more than they would otherwise, then it pays for itself over time as well. And again, that also assumes these players aren’t sold on for big profits.

The money is there for the wages. The bigger issue IMO is that most players who want that kind of money are on contracts that would require £15-20m+ transfer fees, and that’s out of our range. Guys like Benkovic, Toljan, Weah, and Burke. We can afford their wages; the transfer fees not so much!
4/5 players on £75k a week to qualify for the champions league every 5/10 years with that investment the board would demand gettin out the group stages tae the knockout every season
We should have qualified this season for the 3rd season in a row and Rodgers has to take some of the blame for that.
 
#24
Maybe Brendan had enough of the referee and linesman being so blatantly biased every game in Scotland. Motherwell scoring the way they did maybe this was the final straw. If Steve Clarke still gets treated appallingly even after Kings comments, maybe he had enough of what is happening in Scottish football. I do hope Celtic actually learn from this and they start challenging Rangers minded people about slander and bigoted comments. Do Celtic not have lawyers that actually want to challenge and protect all that is good about Celtic? What does PL do to get his massive bonus? When the fans are getting frustrated after Valencia and no help or support for the fans who endured a horrific time prior to the game. Come on Celtic please look after and help your fans as and when needed. I hope we do not loose the league or the treble treble. CELTIC BOARD please wake up and do your job before it is too late.
 

BenLynch29

Well-known member
#25
4/5 players on £75k a week to qualify for the champions league every 5/10 years with that investment the board would demand gettin out the group stages tae the knockout every season
We should have qualified this season for the 3rd season in a row and Rodgers has to take some of the blame for that.
£75k/week is £3.9m/yr. But remember this isn’t all incremental spend unless we’re increasing the size of the squad. If we drop Lustig, Gamboa, etc... these guys are on decent wages already. So the incremental is what, £30k-£40k/week? So we’re looking at incremental wages of £1.5m per year per player who would be on that type of wage. For a club that spending £59m on wages already (and still reporting a profit sans CL money), this is very doable. For as much as I criticize PL, he has brought in additional commercial income into the club to support investments like this should the club want to go that route.

I suspect the club would rather have a ‘flatter’ wage structure though rather than a handful of guys on very high wages.
 

Lemon

Well-known member
#26
Just a wee point regarding our loan signings. Could we have brought in that quality if a transfer fee was needed on top. Oli and timo would have drained our cash reserves and with no guarantees of a profit when it came to them leaving. Not a supporter of the board in general but if BR was unrealistic in his demands this was how it was ending. Why now is the question that eats me. Summer would have seen a plethora of jobs in England and Europe. You could have waited Brendan
 

Lubos left peg

Well-known member
#27
I've not read all the posts yet. I will go back and read when I get a minute but I wanted to make a comment regarding the question you ask TV.

I've been as vocal as you, well not as vocal as you, but I've been pretty vocal with my anger towards our board. I've debated with people who are happy to allow PL to run OUR club as his business. With no regard for how the fans feel...but is it possible on this occasion that all the blame can't lay at PL door. I apologise if this has been said already but what if the reason PL didn't spend big on BR is because he knew BR was working his ticket for the past season and a half.

We knew through all the carry on with dembele that BR wanted to fuck of to China. Maybe PL was between a rock and a hard place. Sack BR and feel the wrath of the fans. Give him millions upon million to sign players knowing full well he was looking to move on. That could explain why PL never released funds. Maybe that would explain the loan signings.Maybe PL knew BR would jump ship as soon as possible.

Wishful thinking I know but maybe there is a lot of cash for the next manager who will be committed and not just using us as a stepping stone the the EPL.
 

Lubos left peg

Well-known member
#29
If you had a guy working for you who you knew wanted to fuck off...but you couldn't sack him because he did a decent job. You wouldn't allow him to go nuts on the company credit card, you would give him enough to just keep his position ticking over wouldnt you. Cant believe I'm defending PL....its been a funny old day. Started a new job today and all my work was in Soho....strange place that.
 
M

Maria

Guest
#30
If the Board are Celtic supporters why would they allow such tensions to build up between the CEO and the manager ?
I am pretty sure that after his first two seasons , having completed a Double Treble , the Celtic support would have given the Board the green light to open the war chest to fund a good European run plus another Treble .
That clearly didn't happen - instead we got rumours of strife between PL and BR . Why ?
Did the CEO not have confidence in BR's player recruitment or did PL's penny- pinching dishearten BR to the extent that we had a miserable Champion's League campaign ?

We are not going to get answers to these questions in the short term - but we can all speculate .
If the problem is , as TV suggests , Peter Lawwell ( and I have already voiced concern at the remuneration being paid to PL ) then the CEO V manager tensions will likely continue to the detriment of the team/club .
If true , are the Board happy to see the CEO as the most valuable asset at the club , regardless of the effect it may be having on the morale of the coaching staff , the team and the support ?

I reckon there’s a few bad apples entrenched on our board.

Conflicting wants and opinions but as you say penny pinching everywhere but their own back pockets.

Shameful. Dis-heartening too but BR gave his word and reneged on it. Liars and con-men shouting from the rooftops for transparency from everyone else yet delivering none to their own support.

Double standards.
 

lcafiero

Well-known member
#31
If you had a guy working for you who you knew wanted to fuck off...but you couldn't sack him because he did a decent job. You wouldn't allow him to go nuts on the company credit card, you would give him enough to just keep his position ticking over wouldnt you. Cant believe I'm defending PL....its been a funny old day. Started a new job today and all my work was in Soho....strange place that.
Hell of a day to start a new job, Lubos -- but you're absolutely right here. Good luck in Soho.
 
M

Maria

Guest
#32
Andy, in fairness, we bought two players in the Jan window: Bayo and Schved.

If one was to believe conspiracy theories, PL and the board may have been clued in on BR leaving and conducted transfer business accordingly - loan players to get us through this campaign and low budget project signings for the future. Put the money in the bank and give it to the next manager to spend this summer.

Rather than causing him to leave, it may have been because he was leaving... we need to be open to that possibility.

Also, even if that’s true, this wouldn’t absolve the board any culpability. Something clearly changed with BR in the last 12 months. He went from 6+4=10 to leaving for Leicester (!!!) rather than staying here for 10 and/or waiting until one of the top jobs in Europe were offered (Arsenal, ManU, Chelsea, etc). What made BR want to leave in the middle of a triple-treble season??? I suspect James Forrest, Joe McHugh, and Phil will have the juicy details for us in the coming days and weeks.

Seeing saw seen, yeah i believe his word does in fact count for nothing.

You were right Ben. 👏
 

Lemon

Well-known member
#33
If you had a guy working for you who you knew wanted to fuck off...but you couldn't sack him because he did a decent job. You wouldn't allow him to go nuts on the company credit card, you would give him enough to just keep his position ticking over wouldnt you. Cant believe I'm defending PL....its been a funny old day. Started a new job today and all my work was in Soho....strange place that.
Soho did it go?😆
 
M

Maria

Guest
#34
If you had a guy working for you who you knew wanted to fuck off...but you couldn't sack him because he did a decent job. You wouldn't allow him to go nuts on the company credit card, you would give him enough to just keep his position ticking over wouldnt you. Cant believe I'm defending PL....its been a funny old day. Started a new job today and all my work was in Soho....strange place that.

Yeah? Good on you Lubo, congratulations pal.

Been in soho a few times and i found it eery through the day so get what your saying.

Positive Mental Attitude paid off when you slung the last job pal. Told you. 👏👏👏
 

Andybhoy88

Well-known member
#36
I don’t think it’s acceptable but the targets Rodgers was after either didn’t want to come or were demanding a weekly wage that Celtic just can’t afford. He brought in lee Cogerton as his head of recruitment and the world of football is a huge place surely they should have had a huge list of players instead they appeared to only have a couple and when they didn’t materialise we were left scratching around in the loan market.
I’m no fan of Lawwell I think his ego gets in the way but I can understand his argument as if he’s been unsure about Rodgers commitment to Celtic it’s only obvious he would be reluctant to let him sign players and give them 3/4 year contracts.
I’m not sayin the board come out of this well but neither does Rodgers he’s got a lot of Celtic players to sign new contracts what assurances did he give them they’ll feel very confused.
With respect that's just speculation though Kakhanded (on the players BR wanted to bring in) we don't know the reasons why those players didn't sign it could be as you say but it could very well be down to the fact that those players didn't fit in with Lawell/Board's ridiculously inflexible recruitment criteria or Lawell/Board simply wanted player recruitment to be done on the cheap and those players didn't fall into the 'cheap' bracket. Also BR and his team may have had a huge list of players they thought could come in and do a job but again the recruitment criteria and budget allocated dictates and turns a list of 20 players into a list of 2.

Let's be honest we've been here before too many times. Gordon Strachan's budget was cut season on season and he was badly let down in his last season when he wasn't backed (Fletcher) and he went on to lose the title. Mowbray (another cheap option and a disaster that most of us seen coming but as he was an ex-Celt Lawell knew we would cut him some slack) was appointed as his successor, again he was thrown scraps which resulted in a total collapse. Next up was Lenny (no doubt a Celtic Legend but again a cheap and risky option) who worked miracles but left citing he couldn't build anything long term due to the board continually selling off his best players and failing to give him the necessary funds to replace them. Then came Ronny (a nice guy with a great philosophy on how we should play but again another cheap and risky appointment that wouldn't rock the boat) again he was given minimal funds to work with and although he done ok he was somewhat out of his depth which culminated in that disastrous cup loss to the Newco. Then finally signs of some intent being shown, Brendan was appointed (something I don't think would've ever happened if Dermot Desmond hadn't felt personally slighted by the behaviour of the Sevvie directors after THAT cup loss) the initial signs were good, the board loosened the purse strings a little our signings went up a level and low and behold it resulted in an incredible invincible season topped off by a treble. And then......the board reverted to type! Yes BR went on to win another treble which was remarkable but it became more of a slog second time around and showed going back to the strategy in place before BR's arrival was counterproductive and BR found that strategy just as hindering and frustrating as those who came before him.

As I said nobody in their right mind expects us to compete with EPL fees and wages but how many times do we need to find ourselves in this position before Lawell and the board recognise their masterplan is riddled with flaws. Improvement requires investment and with this club's finances not every signing has to be a low cost project or loan deal which seems to be the limit of our ambition these days. Also if they're going to punt every project player that comes good at the first opportunity then thy need to invest in a core of players who at least offer us stability when they go.

HH mate.
 

Andybhoy88

Well-known member
#38
Andy, in fairness, we bought two players in the Jan window: Bayo and Schved.

If one was to believe conspiracy theories, PL and the board may have been clued in on BR leaving and conducted transfer business accordingly - loan players to get us through this campaign and low budget project signings for the future. Put the money in the bank and give it to the next manager to spend this summer.

Rather than causing him to leave, it may have been because he was leaving... we need to be open to that possibility.

Also, even if that’s true, this wouldn’t absolve the board any culpability. Something clearly changed with BR in the last 12 months. He went from 6+4=10 to leaving for Leicester (!!!) rather than staying here for 10 and/or waiting until one of the top jobs in Europe were offered (Arsenal, ManU, Chelsea, etc). What made BR want to leave in the middle of a triple-treble season??? I suspect James Forrest, Joe McHugh, and Phil will have the juicy details for us in the coming days and weeks.
Schved is another project who's obviously not first team ready though Ben otherwise he would be pulling on the hoops now instead of being loaned back out. Even Bayo is just another player with 'potential' but at least he's available to us now which is something at least.

I don't doubt Lawell and the board knew BR would be off but I think that's mainly down to the fact that they knew he had no intention of staying on if they weren't going to give him decent money to improve which doesn't bode well for whoever's coming in. Don't hold your breath on any money being banked for the next manager to spend, if a manager like BR wasn't getting it the next man has no chance.

HH mate.
 

Theverdict1

Well-known member
#40
With respect that's just speculation though Kakhanded (on the players BR wanted to bring in) we don't know the reasons why those players didn't sign it could be as you say but it could very well be down to the fact that those players didn't fit in with Lawell/Board's ridiculously inflexible recruitment criteria or Lawell/Board simply wanted player recruitment to be done on the cheap and those players didn't fall into the 'cheap' bracket. Also BR and his team may have had a huge list of players they thought could come in and do a job but again the recruitment criteria and budget allocated dictates and turns a list of 20 players into a list of 2.

Let's be honest we've been here before too many times. Gordon Strachan's budget was cut season on season and he was badly let down in his last season when he wasn't backed (Fletcher) and he went on to lose the title. Mowbray (another cheap option and a disaster that most of us seen coming but as he was an ex-Celt Lawell knew we would cut him some slack) was appointed as his successor, again he was thrown scraps which resulted in a total collapse. Next up was Lenny (no doubt a Celtic Legend but again a cheap and risky option) who worked miracles but left citing he couldn't build anything long term due to the board continually selling off his best players and failing to give him the necessary funds to replace them. Then came Ronny (a nice guy with a great philosophy on how we should play but again another cheap and risky appointment that wouldn't rock the boat) again he was given minimal funds to work with and although he done ok he was somewhat out of his depth which culminated in that disastrous cup loss to the Newco. Then finally signs of some intent being shown, Brendan was appointed (something I don't think would've ever happened if Dermot Desmond hadn't felt personally slighted by the behaviour of the Sevvie directors after THAT cup loss) the initial signs were good, the board loosened the purse strings a little our signings went up a level and low and behold it resulted in an incredible invincible season topped off by a treble. And then......the board reverted to type! Yes BR went on to win another treble which was remarkable but it became more of a slog second time around and showed going back to the strategy in place before BR's arrival was counterproductive and BR found that strategy just as hindering and frustrating as those who came before him.

As I said nobody in their right mind expects us to compete with EPL fees and wages but how many times do we need to find ourselves in this position before Lawell and the board recognise their masterplan is riddled with flaws. Improvement requires investment and with this club's finances not every signing has to be a low cost project or loan deal which seems to be the limit of our ambition these days. Also if they're going to punt every project player that comes good at the first opportunity then thy need to invest in a core of players who at least offer us stability when they go.

HH mate.
Great post. Nailed it.
 
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