Celtic v Bayer Leverkusen - Thursday 30 September, kick-off 8pm - all comments here

[boab1916]

The jokers have their say

From the guy who left nothing for the new guy to work with, which meant trying to build a team around the ones he thinks can produce for him and having to recruit players who have to adapt to a new setup whilst the league is up and running, speaks out about players attitudes. Fuck off and you as well Lambert fucking failure at management at all your clubs and have nothing, but negativity to offer.
You're fucking right the game and players has changed Lenny and you Lambert, thats why both of you failed players don't respond well to nights out on pints and pizza then training, we are not a fucking pub team, fuck off we owe you both fuck all, take whats left of your status before it's fucked completely

https://twitter.com/x/status/1443692777188077570

 

[John nó]

if you didnt expect much then why the rhetoric today ?

i agree we should beat everyone on paper, but footballs not played on paper

inconsistent selection due to injuries married to a complete overhaul of how a team plays throws these results up

i can see where we are going and i can see where it's going wrong, it's not the system, the system is giving us chances against teams that are at the moment miles ahead of us
by default it gives other teams chances against us, but it's the players on the park making an effin c@nt of it thats costing us goal after goal

we'll get much better mate over the next few weeks, hang in

yes the stats dont lie, but neither do my eyes

Out of curiosity Stg, I find it strange how you can defend the system of play we have adopted when it has handed up as many chances to the opposition that is costing us so badly with the goals conceded.
Would expect the higher quality teams in Europe to exploit it, for which they have, but when the likes of livi and Dundee United can also do and costing us 5 points, in a season when the league title should be the priority then something is badly wrong imo.
Injuries, pitches, weather, mib's, board, are all just excuses to hide behind as far as I'm concerned with the results that have been delivered so far this season.
Currently it like a throwback to Kevin keegan as Newcastle manager, if you score 4 we will get 5 and we know how that ended up in the end.
So 5 concentrate on attack only, 5 on defence only with nothing in between still, surely we should be expecting better than that.

 

[John nó]

The first team squad as per the club website is 32 players. That includes Murray & Dembele so in reality its 30. In fact make that 29 as I wouldn't count Johnston anymore.
Celtic play 60+ games a season, add in the majority of our players are also internationals, we need a big squad. High 20s in number would be acceptable if they were all capable to come in and contribute, unfortunately its obvious there's less than 20 that the manager trusts to play, and even then I'm sure several of them he'd rather replace. Add in an injury crisis amongst several of our first picks and you have the perfect storm of mediocrity we are currently watching.
The squad management over a period of years has been shambolic. A massive drop in quality and in some positions quantity.
Again according to the website we have 8 central midfielders. Take out Shaw and Henderson who will never be first team player that leaves 6. That should be enough until you look at who they are, 3 DMs, 2 x No.10s and McGregor. Of the 4 LBs you mention, you couldn't make a good one from them all. Likewise keepers, 4 in the first team squad, 1 who is capable.
You'd think we didn't have a Director of Football, a Head of Football Operations, a Head of Recruitment/Chief Scout.........

I would agree Gary that a DOF or someone similar is reducing the quality of the squad with giving the manager far less to actually work with.
I would have thought 25 is enough for a 1st team squad to cover a season with 2 players for each position and a few floaters like Bitton for example who could do a job in a few different positions.
Could we still be operating with players thrown at a manager with him expected to form them into the player's he wants for his way of setting the team up?
If so, then it still remains a very backwards way of running a football club imo.

 

[boab1916]

Great atmosphere and setting the stage as the twelfth man deserves better and will bring greater riches.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1443652667176374285

 

[Smelltheg-love]

Out of curiosity Stg, I find it strange how you can defend the system of play we have adopted when it has handed up as many chances to the opposition that is costing us so badly with the goals conceded.
Would expect the higher quality teams in Europe to exploit it, for which they have, but when the likes of livi and Dundee United can also do and costing us 5 points, in a season when the league title should be the priority then something is badly wrong imo.
Injuries, pitches, weather, mib's, board, are all just excuses to hide behind as far as I'm concerned with the results that have been delivered so far this season.
Currently it like a throwback to Kevin keegan as Newcastle manager, if you score 4 we will get 5 and we know how that ended up in the end.
So 5 concentrate on attack only, 5 on defence only with nothing in between still, surely we should be expecting better than that.

Why is it strange ?

We created as many chances as them last night, heard earlier both teams had 18 chances each.
The system saw us take on the team in 2nd in Germany and give them a proper game.
They took their chances, we didn't and handed them a couple, is the system to blame for that ?
Say we sat in last night, you think the result would have been much different ?

Sure when results aren't going our way i expect there to be critcism, but the criticism is IMO unfair at times. You may call them excuses to hide behind but i view them as reasons.
He hasn't been able to get a cohesive unit playing week in and week out with the constant changes/injuries to see how it works after a run of games.
Results matter at Celtic but i'm not irrational, we'll not tonight anyhow.

I have a job and wouldn't expect Ange to tell me how to do mine's better.
It seems that a guy that's been a football player and coach for the best part of his life is all of a sudden having his system torn apart by people whose football experience amounts to watching or reporting on it. But thats the job at Celtic.

The manager was appointed because of his success with his style of play. Does anybody expect him to rip it up and start again just because the media are attacking it in tow with some of the supporters. If he did he'd be a mug and he wouldn't be where he is today.
He was brought here for a reason, he needs to be given a proper chance to get on with it.

The question i would ask is when has any Celtic fan ever happy with a manager or a system.
Even when we win they still get it. Dont like the style, too passive, too boring, should play 2 up front etc
Lennon got it in his treble year, Rodgers got it and so on.

Its what makes it the game it is in this country

 

[POD]

One of the legendary free flowing / total football teams of all time, 'The Clockwork Orange', never won a competition.

They had some of the greatest footballers in the world in their team.

They succumbed to organised teams, tactically astute, rival managerial realists, with super players as well.

My point is, that Ange would do well to remember this.

He does not have available to him, sufficient players of quality, who can dominate the opposition in his own league.

Until he has, he then needs to be realistic and practical. This means adapting his style of play, his tactics, his personnel, his expectations, and his beliefs to maximise results.

Results are everything.

In my opinion, there is no point being the martyr to beautiful football, if you do not produce winning teams.

This is what fans want, and what you are remembered for.

 

[Tony]

Why is it strange ?

We created as many chances as them last night, heard earlier both teams had 18 chances each.
The system saw us take on the team in 2nd in Germany and give them a proper game.
They took their chances, we didn't and handed them a couple, is the system to blame for that ?
Say we sat in last night, you think the result would have been much different ?

Sure when results aren't going our way i expect there to be critcism, but the criticism is IMO unfair at times. You may call them excuses to hide behind but i view them as reasons.
He hasn't been able to get a cohesive unit playing week in and week out with the constant changes/injuries to see how it works after a run of games.
Results matter at Celtic but i'm not irrational, we'll not tonight anyhow.

I have a job and wouldn't expect Ange to tell me how to do mine's better.
It seems that a guy that's been a football player and coach for the best part of his life is all of a sudden having his system torn apart by people whose football experience amounts to watching or reporting on it. But thats the job at Celtic.

The manager was appointed because of his success with his style of play. Does anybody expect him to rip it up and start again just because the media are attacking it in tow with some of the supporters. If he did he'd be a mug and he wouldn't be where he is today.
He was brought here for a reason, he needs to be given a proper chance to get on with it.

The question i would ask is when has any Celtic fan ever happy with a manager or a system.
Even when we win they still get it. Dont like the style, too passive, too boring, should play 2 up front etc
Lennon got it in his treble year, Rodgers got it and so on.

Its what makes it the game it is in this country

Beaten by a superior team but the 4-0 defo flattered them.Tells you a lot when Schik started on the bench ,a stand out at the euros.

 

[Smelltheg-love]

Beaten by a superior team but the 4-0 defo flattered them.Tells you a lot when Schik started on the bench ,a stand out at the euros.

The fine margins of football last night

We were lucky not to be behind after a minute or two
then took it to them for a bit and spurned a great chance or two with some great goalkeeping
was 50/50 for a bit then Turnbull
fell flat then they got goal 2

2nd half started great, took it to them, more great goalkeeping
then the penalty, game over

 

[Frank Owen]

So what’s the answer then? Get rid of Ange I’m taking it first? Then what? Get rid of ? Who’s next on your hit list? Oh aye Kennedy n strachan I agree on that. Oh and maybe the Board just maybe? I agree with that Bankier first on my hit list so… What do you think then?

Hi Rose, we've all got our own ideas and opinions, which is exactly as it should be. We also have the luxury of not having to put our expert theories and analysis to the test. For that reason we're never gonna know if our opinions are indeed answers to our dilemma at any given time. We also take the liberty of playing the blame game at times.

So, here's my take on things as I see them at present. Ange, without doubt has a very difficult job on his hands. The rebuild needed at the club is possibly the biggest I've known in over sixty years of supporting Celtic. It has to be said, none of the malaise affecting the club is of his doing

Because of the situation Ange has inherited, my expectation level is, I think, realistic. That doesn't mean I don't give us a chance of finishing top of the pile come May. I most certainly do give us a chance. Not because I think we're a good team sadly; but rather because we play in what for me is simply a very poor league. We only really have to be better than one team and we're home and dry.

Everything hinges on our player recruitment. I think it would be a big ask for all of our signings to make the required contribution; but we really need the majority of them to have a decent level of ability. That brings us back to Ange and his system of playing. Again, I think we can play that way in Scotland and win, and again, it's for the same reason. The standard of opposition doesn't make me want to run to the loo. When we step up a level or two, we are found wanting. No argument about that.

I've gone full circle now. Back to having my own less than expert thoughts on where we have gone wrong in the last few games. I've already said in a couple of other posts. I don't understand playing three pretty similar players in midfield. A football team is made up of players with different attributes which gel together to form a unit. Too many players with more or less the same way of playing only leads to a lack of balance. For me, If I could change one thing in Ange's way of thinking, it would be that. I'm rabbiting now, so am away.
HH

 

[John nó]

Why is it strange ?

We created as many chances as them last night, heard earlier both teams had 18 chances each.
The system saw us take on the team in 2nd in Germany and give them a proper game.
They took their chances, we didn't and handed them a couple, is the system to blame for that ?
Say we sat in last night, you think the result would have been much different ?

Sure when results aren't going our way i expect there to be critcism, but the criticism is IMO unfair at times. You may call them excuses to hide behind but i view them as reasons.
He hasn't been able to get a cohesive unit playing week in and week out with the constant changes/injuries to see how it works after a run of games.
Results matter at Celtic but i'm not irrational, we'll not tonight anyhow.

I have a job and wouldn't expect Ange to tell me how to do mine's better.
It seems that a guy that's been a football player and coach for the best part of his life is all of a sudden having his system torn apart by people whose football experience amounts to watching or reporting on it. But thats the job at Celtic.

The manager was appointed because of his success with his style of play. Does anybody expect him to rip it up and start again just because the media are attacking it in tow with some of the supporters. If he did he'd be a mug and he wouldn't be where he is today.
He was brought here for a reason, he needs to be given a proper chance to get on with it.

The question i would ask is when has any Celtic fan ever happy with a manager or a system.
Even when we win they still get it. Dont like the style, too passive, too boring, should play 2 up front etc
Lennon got it in his treble year, Rodgers got it and so on.

Its what makes it the game it is in this country

That's all based just upon last night Stg.
A European game, where a more open game is expected and against a far higher standard of opposition.
Far from sums up the whole 17 now competitive games we have had to date, where the results in general have been far from impressive, and away from home just woeful overall.
The only thing in common has been the set up of the team regardless, with the only change to the set up was last night, long after the game was lost.
The league was still our priority this season, yet 3 defeats away and in all 3 there was a total struggle to break down the opposition.
Again on Sunday, would expect the sheep to go to a 451 and limit our attacking play in the knowledge it can take no more than 2 passes with 3 max attacking players to cut us wide open.
If that's a sign of tactical know how then I'm not seeing it.
Maybe we will stick with the wide men glued to the touchline and expect 3 to get the better of 5 through the middle of there defence.
The modern day game does rely upon tactics and when it is as clear as they are in where its not working and even no changes to the system the anger grows when the results aren't being delivered overall and the results aren't telling lies either.

 

[Smelltheg-love]

That's all based just upon last night Stg.
A European game, where a more open game is expected and against a far higher standard of opposition.
Far from sums up the whole 17 now competitive games we have had to date, where the results in general have been far from impressive, and away from home just woeful overall.
The only thing in common has been the set up of the team regardless, with the only change to the set up was last night, long after the game was lost.
The league was still our priority this season, yet 3 defeats away and in all 3 there was a total struggle to break down the opposition.
Again on Sunday, would expect the sheep to go to a 451 and limit our attacking play in the knowledge it can take no more than 2 passes with 3 max attacking players to cut us wide open.
If that's a sign of tactical know how then I'm not seeing it.
Maybe we will stick with the wide men glued to the touchline and expect 3 to get the better of 5 through the middle of there defence.
The modern day game does rely upon tactics and when it is as clear as they are in where its not working and even no changes to the system the anger grows when the results aren't being delivered overall and the results aren't telling lies either.

I agree it’s not been good enough in the SPL
But the cards have been stacked against him
He deserves the time to get as near his best 11 on the park then we can judge him and whether his system works
But pretty quickly he has to get them beating SPL teams
Perhaps you should get your CV in to ange as he’s looking for more back room staff

 

[John nó]

I agree it’s not been good enough in the SPL
But the cards have been stacked against him
But he deserves the time to get as near his best 11 on the park then we can judge
But pretty quickly he has to get them beating SPL teams
Perhaps you should get your CV in to ange as he’s looking for more back room staff

Would be a waste of time Stg as how he currently wants to set a team up with the tactical approach is one I've never seen the likes of before.
Now I got no idea how they play the game in Asia and Australia and maybe it is as open and attractive to watch, but it will be the best part of never when that will be the preferred option in Scotland.
Has now his main attacking option available, only proper midfielder back, main CB pairing that's available as can't see Jules making that much difference overall.
So Sunday for me, I would class as our biggest game of the season to date, yet I feel far from confident about it as things stand.

 

[CarlisleReiver]

I think we all need to give Ange some time and a break! It was a world of difference having McGregor and Kygogo back, imagine going into that game with both of them fully fit? Probably a completely different game as goals change games. A fit Kygogo would have scored that chance to put us 1-0 up.

However, this is all ifs and maybes. The team hasn't gelled yet, but I can see (and have done with Ange at Brisbane and Melbourne - very competive league) the glimmers of light.

Yes we have lost 3 games in the league and drew 1... but to be only 6 points off our biggest rivals is not the end of the world when you consider the start (basically no team). We will get better and we will strengthen in January.

I've always said that the new manager coming into replace Lennon needed a few seasons (and I even said that about Howe). I'm not going to panic, I actually thought with the summer shambles we would be lucky to win the league this year. That's still very much the case.

I'm happy to give Ange 4x transfers windows as I like the players he has actually been allowed to sign rather than those just forced on him.

 

[Tony]

I think we all need to give Ange some time and a break! It was a world of difference having McGregor and Kygogo back, imagine going into that game with both of them fully fit? Probably a completely different game as goals change games. A fit Kygogo would have scored that chance to put us 1-0 up.

However, this is all ifs and maybes. The team hasn't gelled yet, but I can see (and have done with Ange at Brisbane and Melbourne - very competive league) the glimmers of light.

Yes we have lost 3 games in the league and drew 1... but to be only 6 points off our biggest rivals is not the end of the world when you consider the start (basically no team). We will get better and we will strengthen in January.

I've always said that the new manager coming into replace Lennon needed a few seasons (and I even said that about Howe). I'm not going to panic, I actually thought with the summer shambles we would be lucky to win the league this year. That's still very much the case.

I'm happy to give Ange 4x transfers windows as I like the players he has actually been allowed to sign rather than those just forced on him.

You dont get a few seasons at Celtic

 

[Vigobhoy]

The board wasted months…thats months, waiting on Howe. Ange has had to do it the hard way, get a squad playing the way he wants it in competitive games, important games, finding out who can or cant do what.
He was thrown in at the deep end, for that I am grateful he took it on and he deserves time, if Slippy is worth 3 years, Ange is worth more than 3 months.
BL aren’t just a good team, they are a very good team playing in a very good league, what did anyone honestly expect last night, that we would win?
The score does not reflect we were. in fact, giving them plenty of problems at times.
To hear NL give opinions like he did made me feel suck tbh, if he had done the honourable thing early enough we probably wouldnt have had the Howe debacle and a manager in much sooner.
For me , every single bit of this sh it show is at the feet of the board.
The manager can only work with what he’s got, and he had very little left of the transfer window to make proper use of it, cos we all know how feckin slow out board are at signing players.
No wonder Dom walked.
Give the man time, he needs a couple of seasons, if that means all we get is a couple of token wins over Sevco to cheer us so be it.

I think Slippy will be gone before Ange .... Slippy gone by March

 

[Docco]

You dont get a few seasons at Celtic

For the greater good , we should afford a manager time to build something special from the ground up...sure we might have a couple of lean years but the benefits will be worth it in the long run

 

[Vigobhoy]

I doubt we will see top this season. How long since that happened.
We will still have the die hard optimists saying just one more transfer window an Ange will get the team and players he wants.
Dream fucking on. It ain't happening, it never will till he gets Pep sized transfer budget. He came to the right club though, half the support are hopeless romantics.

and a few miserable bastards who want everything NOW...

And Livingston and Dundee Utd, and failed to beat either.
Look, I didn't expect much against Betis or Leverkusen. It's clear they are quite more forward than us ATM.
But Livingston and Dundee Utd. Give me a break, we've players on 20k plus and they just aren't any better than what we had last season. The stats don't lie. We are worse than last year.

Especially having to rely on Ajeti for both those games, and others. What chance when the defence is also dodgy.... well at least Starstruck.

 

[Vigobhoy]

It's simple. Ange wants to play champagne football with lemonade players.
I think we have the makings of a good team. We are more than capable of winning the spfl. But for whatever reason the main thing that leaps out at me when I watch this Celtic team is confusion, especially when asked to defend. If you were an opposing manager all you need to say to your players is, press them at every opportunity, they will make a mistake.

First choice LB and RB crocked and Starfel is afraid of the ball. How do you improve the defense under those circumstances?

 

[Vigobhoy]

Out of curiosity Stg, I find it strange how you can defend the system of play we have adopted when it has handed up as many chances to the opposition that is costing us so badly with the goals conceded.
Would expect the higher quality teams in Europe to exploit it, for which they have, but when the likes of livi and Dundee United can also do and costing us 5 points, in a season when the league title should be the priority then something is badly wrong imo.
Injuries, pitches, weather, mib's, board, are all just excuses to hide behind as far as I'm concerned with the results that have been delivered so far this season.
Currently it like a throwback to Kevin keegan as Newcastle manager, if you score 4 we will get 5 and we know how that ended up in the end.
So 5 concentrate on attack only, 5 on defence only with nothing in between still, surely we should be expecting better than that.

Sorry Johnno but that is not what the league table shows. Look at the Goals Against columns for top 6 teams.

 

[kelly]

ma tuppence worth

Every teams dropped points this season some would have dropped more than others if they hadn't had help , with all things considered we haven't got off to a flyer but we appointed a manager far to late ,the same goes for the players some in days before we kicked a ball

Throw in the international crap ,players returning back late for what little pre-season we had ,,,,,were we not expecting to much from a guy who has never coached in europe ?

were 7 games into the league ,it's never won or lost in sept/oct,

With the international crap break coming up again he would do well to ,,,,,, ffs get his own coaches in people he has worked with and can trust ,,,,not the crap foisted upon him there lies the problem

said right from the off one man can't be expected to coach his ideas across to 30 players and expect everyone to take it in

He also needs to stick with a backline that works not keep chopping and changing

Right now it looks as though he dosen't have the quality of player to play his style of football

or is it ,he has 3 coaches that can't get his coaching across

wasn't on the Ange bus at the begining but can see what he's trying to do but unless he gets his own guys in i can't see him lasting as the entitled don't have the patience

Folk need to direct there anger towards the board and lennon they led us to this mess