Celtic v West Ham, Saturday 24th July, Celtic Park

Glasbhoy81

Well-known member
Ignoring the game itself for a moment, yesterday was excellent. Beautiful sunny day, pre match beers in St Lukes with sons and nephews, a walk up the Gallowgate then into Paradise. Not in my own seat, was in 418 Jock Stein Stand rear, but it was brilliant to be back. Normality, at least for the 6-7 hours pre match, match and post match, has returned.
The only downer was the performance, or lack of, by the team, or the defence to be more precise. What we saw yesterday was the legacy of Peter Lawwell, aided and abetted by the complacent non exec directors who still hold the team back in order to hang on to their club blazer. We start the league campaign in less than a week and we urgently require
A goalkeeper, preferably one with arms
A right back, Ralston is a Scottish Championship player at best
A left back, Taylor doesn't possess the quality of passing to play in Ange's system
A centre back, in addition to Starfelt who has a monumental task trying to fit into the team and turn around the worst defence I have seen in the 50+ years of watching Celtic
A defensive midfielder, one who can tackle, cleanly, be positionally good and can pass to a teammate. Soro has potential but isn't close to being a first choice at the moment
A striker, one who can link up all of the good stuff we saw yesterday from wide players and attacking midfielders.
Griffiths needs to go, he is now becoming a pantomime figure that splits the support whilst offering zero on the pitch. As long as he's at the club he is the story. Tear up his contract and get rid, or if that's not legally possible move him out on loan for the season until his contract expires.
Not confident at all for this season at the moment, not just because of an embarrassing pre season defeat (I remember losing 1-5 at home to Arsenal in 1987 and then winning the double), but because as a club we remain a complete shambles off the field and this is reflected on it.
McKay and Postecoglu have been handed a shit sandwich, here's a club in decline for 2+ years under the people you are replacing but there is no football operation to speak, every of to help you, everyone's left, you need to build a whole new football operation structure from scratch as well as get a team on the park competing. This'll take a couple of years, at least 3 transfer windows.
Still great to be back though🍀
It will take longer than 3 transfer windows with this board.
The board like to hold out from selling our players until they get the value they want. Yet when we try to buy a player, we hit clubs with low ball offers. We are never willing to pay what is needed. Its fucking embarrassing.
Why have we not got anyone as head of recruitment? Is Dom taking this role on with advice from PL, who he said is at the end of the phone.
We are crying out for a right back but have offered €2.1m when the club value him at €3.5m. Pay the fucking money if you want him. We have brought in over £33m in player sales this year. Joke of a club
 
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Bridie Bhoy

Well-known member
i might be wrong mate...but was it no david murray who done away with the reserves coz he didnt want to fund it...wanted the other peoples and bank money he recieved spent on players he couldny afford....fuckin rat bastard...murry/rangers destroyed scottish football......nobody else...them n them only
I might have known it was that arsehole. You are right, yet another one of his decisions that destroyed Scottish fitba in his deluded desire to win the European Cup. Before he came along teams like Aberdeen, Dundee United and St Mirren were doing well in Europe and Hearts almost the league (🤣).

He destroyed it by bringing in lots of foreigners rather than Scottish players and every other club tried to compete by doing the same. But they never realised that the multi-millionaire wasn't funding it at all but it was the compliant funny-handshake loyalists in a corrupt bank that paid for it all (later bailed out by us taxpayers) so they could steal silverware from everyone else.

And auld Lizzie gave him a knighthood for "services to business" when his wonderfully managed businesses were £700m+ in debt! I'd have given him my size 12 right up the hoop!
 

Glasbhoy81

Well-known member
I might have known it was that arsehole. You are right, yet another one of his decisions that destroyed Scottish fitba in his deluded desire to win the European Cup. Before he came along teams like Aberdeen, Dundee United and St Mirren were doing well in Europe and Hearts almost the league (🤣).

He destroyed it by bringing in lots of foreigners rather than Scottish players and every other club tried to compete by doing the same. But they never realised that the multi-millionaire wasn't funding it at all but it was the compliant funny-handshake loyalists in a corrupt bank that paid for it all (later bailed out by us taxpayers) so they could steal silverware from everyone else.

And auld Lizzie gave him a knighthood for "services to business" when his wonderfully managed businesses were £700m+ in debt! I'd have given him my size 12 right up the hoop!
The cunt should have been jailed, like his daddy who was another scumbag. The apple never fell far from the tree there
 

Brimcbhoy

Well-known member
Where to begin? How have we sunk so low? Ok, I know it was a friendly. I know AP is finding his feet, but we were torn apart. We're miles away from being a team to face the season ahead.
Obviously we will have to wait and see how we play in competitive League football. We need experienced players but we are taking gambles on unknowns, if they work out, great, but it's a big IF.
Why are we not looking at any proven performers from other Scottish (or even English) clubs? Have we sacked all our scouts? Exotic names from Japan and Scandinavia are all well and good but will they settle in Scotland?
Shved, Bayo, Klimala, Ajeti, Barkas??? Have we learned nothing from these buys?
It's early days and there are some encouraging signs but my fear is is mainly the GK and defence. I just don't think we have the personnel to play the way AP wants them to play.
 

Tarzan Trump

Well-known member
Where to begin? How have we sunk so low? Ok, I know it was a friendly. I know AP is finding his feet, but we were torn apart. We're miles away from being a team to face the season ahead.
Obviously we will have to wait and see how we play in competitive League football. We need experienced players but we are taking gambles on unknowns, if they work out, great, but it's a big IF.
Why are we not looking at any proven performers from other Scottish (or even English) clubs? Have we sacked all our scouts? Exotic names from Japan and Scandinavia are all well and good but will they settle in Scotland?
Shved, Bayo, Klimala, Ajeti, Barkas??? Have we learned nothing from these buys?
It's early days and there are some encouraging signs but my fear is is mainly the GK and defence. I just don't think we have the personnel to play the way AP wants them to play.
Proven performers?

Are there any proven performers who would have got a game at their club if the likes of shved bayo klimala ajeti and barkas played at their club

every one of the players you mentioned were doing very very well till they came here

thats exactly why they were signed imo

Now i assume you have some particular proven quality you had in mind

Who fits your wishlist?
 

Brimcbhoy

Well-known member
Proven performers?

Are there any proven performers who would have got a game at their club if the likes of shved bayo klimala ajeti and barkas played at their club

every one of the players you mentioned were doing very very well till they came here

thats exactly why they were signed imo

Now i assume you have some particular proven quality you had in mind

Who fits your wishlist?
All doing well before they came to us you say! Kind of backs up my point about would they settle in Scotland. That's my point. Barkas for example, and Ajeti? You sure he was doing well at West Ham?
I'm not an agent or a scout so I don't know who's available but i'd have the big keeper Zander Clark. Kevin Nisbit from Hibs is another possibility.
 

Tarzan Trump

Well-known member
Give youth a chance, to who decided to give youth a chance?

The lad turnbull is good player but he is still very hit and miss, thats what happens when you give youth a chance.

Our main cb is injured but we have 3 or 4 young guys who might be good enough if they got more time to gell

we have signed proven performers for every single. position last year and they didnt perform

so cry was give youth a chance

but its hit and miss

How have we fallen so far

imo

1 we try play like real madrid even though we are middle of second tier european club even against teams who are similarly rated players or worse stronger on paper

All very ambitious but it gets gubbed against a similar strength side with a proper rigid structure and proper functioning team ethic

2 100 million behind lower ranked epl teams means we cant afford known names with quality simply because sky tv have decided (and allowed by governing bodies) that certain leagues should be starved to feed the sky leagues

3 there is still an heir of hubris across the club on and off pitch and a denial that the sky funding means we cant provide same level of quality because we cant afford the wages of top talent

its simple sky are killing scottish football

we just didnt notice it so much till it suddenly affects our club same as it did for all the other scottish clubs bar 1

and they seem to have a trust fund that has unknown unverified potentially criminal sources, im sure they even announced their were criminal elements at their club

strangly their players seem to ditch their huge wages to come join them

i doubt very much they drop any wages in reality

they have always been a club that had side letters
 

Tarzan Trump

Well-known member
All doing well before they came to us you say! Kind of backs up my point about would they settle in Scotland. That's my point. Barkas for example, and Ajeti? You sure he was doing well at West Ham?
I'm not an agent or a scout so I don't know who's available but i'd have the big keeper Zander Clark. Kevin Nisbit from Hibs is another possibility.
ok letssay we signed them and they are no good enough

what next

i doubt nisbet would ever got a game if they had bayo or ajetti or klimala

same with big clark

im sure bain looked great

taylor was a proven performer

slated every game here by lots

jack hendry brilliant slated as pish here

scott allan brilliant slated as pish here

and its because thety are not that extra bit special

but that extra bit special these days comes with 100k wages

the big lad striker for west ham

wow dynamite player never ever heard of him

looked at his wages 100k

and injuryprone
 

Brimcbhoy

Well-known member
ok letssay we signed them and they are no good enough

what next

i doubt nisbet would ever got a game if they had bayo or ajetti or klimala

same with big clark

im sure bain looked great

taylor was a proven performer

slated every game here by lots

jack hendry brilliant slated as pish here

scott allan brilliant slated as pish here

and its because thety are not that extra bit special

but that extra bit special these days comes with 100k wages

the big lad striker for west ham

wow dynamite player never ever heard of him

looked at his wages 100k

and injuryprone
So if these are good players till they pull on the hoops what's the problem? It must lie with the coaching? That's Kennedy and Gavipad's department.
I'm surprised AP has not brought his own man with him.
 

Tarzan Trump

Well-known member
So if these are good players till they pull on the hoops what's the problem? It must lie with the coaching? That's Kennedy and Gavipad's department.
I'm surprised AP has not brought his own man with him.
You cant play powerplay full throttle attack with dysfunctioning mediocre players

you need to pick a shape that best suits the players you have but it must also have a shape and balance that maximises your chances to win

I have no clue what kennedy role or duty is

but im pretty certain he aint the main problem

sack him though anyway

and bring in a proven performer like, oh thats right nobody is good enough for wages we can offer

unless we change to a more balanced system

one that builds from back supports the defence and midfield and doesnt chuck players not fully supported under the bus

the philosphy of it doesnt matter how many you score we score more only works if you score more

and having no defensive shape or ball winning plan and no desire from front 3 to support the midfield when midfield suypport defence means no matter who you bring into that system you will lose against weaker but not by much but rigid teams

sack board sack kennedy sack everybody imo

but remember next bunch want more money if they are better

and without sky money its all very random in the lower tiers of football
 

kelly

Well-known member
Where to begin? How have we sunk so low? Ok, I know it was a friendly. I know AP is finding his feet, but we were torn apart. We're miles away from being a team to face the season ahead.
Obviously we will have to wait and see how we play in competitive League football. We need experienced players but we are taking gambles on unknowns, if they work out, great, but it's a big IF.
Why are we not looking at any proven performers from other Scottish (or even English) clubs? Have we sacked all our scouts? Exotic names from Japan and Scandinavia are all well and good but will they settle in Scotland?
Shved, Bayo, Klimala, Ajeti, Barkas??? Have we learned nothing from these buys?
It's early days and there are some encouraging signs but my fear is is mainly the GK and defence.
Said when he signed unless he gets his own backroom team in to help implement his ideas ,he's onto a hiding to nothing ,if he thinks kennedy and starchan will pass on what he wants then he's fkd

one person isn't gonna get his coaching ideas across to all 44 players
 

Brimcbhoy

Well-known member
Said when he signed unless he gets his own backroom team in to help implement his ideas ,he's onto a hiding to nothing ,if he thinks kennedy and starchan will pass on what he wants then he's fkd

one person isn't gonna get his coaching ideas across to all 44 players
At times yesterday we looked like a bunch of headless chickens. I get that West Ham have a more streetwise and expensive group of players, but they looked a lot fitter and that is something that can be improved.
 

Tony

Well-known member
At times yesterday we looked like a bunch of headless chickens. I get that West Ham have a more streetwise and expensive group of players, but they looked a lot fitter and that is something that can be improved.
That back 4 will get ran ragged against any decent side with pace up front ,the boy Welsh is average at best ,hope the new guys much better or god help us .
 

Brimcbhoy

Well-known member
That back 4 will get ran ragged against any decent side with pace up front ,the boy Welsh is average at best ,hope the new guys much better or god help us .
I just watched the highlights again, glutton for punishment I know. Our starting 11 yesterday will probably be the 11 that start on Wednesday. It doesn't look good. Ange was very disappointed with what he called the lack of desire. I think I've written off Europe this season, hammerings like yesterday are bad for moral.
 

John nó

Well-known member
You cant play powerplay full throttle attack with dysfunctioning mediocre players

you need to pick a shape that best suits the players you have but it must also have a shape and balance that maximises your chances to win

I have no clue what kennedy role or duty is

but im pretty certain he aint the main problem

sack him though anyway

and bring in a proven performer like, oh thats right nobody is good enough for wages we can offer

unless we change to a more balanced system

one that builds from back supports the defence and midfield and doesnt chuck players not fully supported under the bus

the philosphy of it doesnt matter how many you score we score more only works if you score more

and having no defensive shape or ball winning plan and no desire from front 3 to support the midfield when midfield suypport defence means no matter who you bring into that system you will lose against weaker but not by much but rigid teams

sack board sack kennedy sack everybody imo

but remember next bunch want more money if they are better

and without sky money its all very random in the lower tiers of football
TET isn't it about time you come down off the SKY soapbox?
Not a fan of Sky, and yes have created a monster within the football world, where the privileged few have benifited hugely and in turn made a bollox out of the CL in general.
But its a product, and the demand is still there regardless. Do these clubs also pay well over the odds? Course they do, but the demand allows it to happen, and the mistakes these clubs make within the transfer market can also be huge.
We are in a totally different market, that has been made harder with the bigger clubs snapping up younger talent, that offer better development opportunities, yet they still have a very poor return on players who develop into top class players for the clubs that invested that much in them.
More interested, in what we are doing and how we can try to close the gap with less opportunity's available? A very hard ask with the Scottish FA who are allowed to hid behind Sky and whinge about it.
So yes we are in a very risky market where we have to get in players that can hit the ground running, cause that is the demand of our support, yet how many fancy the shite that Scottish football allows, corruption, bigotry, blatant cheating mib's etc all for everyone to see, yet goes unchallenged.
We are trying to change the approach with offering 5 year contracts now, giving us a better chance within an ever changing market and showing the player actually wants to be here instead of the 2 year max approach and then they want to move on for the bigger money once they've proved there worth, have we still got this with Turnbull and Ababa?
We have finally bought in the likes of kyogo and starfelt who we would expect to be here for the long term but nothing is guaranteed in the football world.
We have to depend upon Ange judgement at present with what players he feels can benefit us for the present and the longer term, and in fairness what he has bought in so far, don't look to bad and better than what we are used to overall. Still more needs to be done admittedly and yes it can be frustrating with the time delays, but what do we want? Panic buys, who will offer us nothing?
We can't make players come to us, even with the opportunity on offer and yes we can offer similar wages if not better than many other leagues within Europe .
We are still a big name within Europe, that has still produced many a successful young player, yet agents for these players can still use our name to gain a better deal for there players by using our name as an interested party, so agents can be our biggest pain in the ass than sky imo.
We are still trying to create a squad not only of been able to win a league title, but also having the foundations to be able to play at CL group standards next season, all to be hopefully put in place during one transfer window? Not going to happen, yet how many clubs could? This is a process and the first achievement is to get a side together that is worthy of a league title, and already great steps have been made to achieve that, and still work to be done especially in certain positions, that guarantees much better than we already have available.
Tactics, you raised also?
By trying to play out from the back, will make the pitch bigger with more room for our creative players to operate in, now how many teams will be prepared to take that chance against us? Not to many with hopefully the likes of kyogo and abada having the ability to cut them to ribbons given the space. So are we to expect the defend from the halfway line? I would say so still, yet hasn't our movements of the ball and players being of a much better standard we see last season with creating more goal scoring opportunities?
I think so, and this only after a couple of weeks.
Really don't understand all this negative shite, surrounding the club of late, especially after one result when we are in the middle of a European tie, with a makeshift defence, that I'll remain confident will be improved.
Sorry for the long reply TET, but you do raise many points that I felt needed responding to
HH
 

John nó

Well-known member
That back 4 will get ran ragged against any decent side with pace up front ,the boy Welsh is average at best ,hope the new guys much better or god help us .
That back 4 Tony we used yesterday, I can't see being in place much longer imo.
We were playing against one of the better counter attacking teams in the EPL, and it showed.
How many teams have that type of quality in the SPFL?
Fuck all of them.
Ange stated when he took the job there will be an element of risk in his approach with trying to make the pitch so much bigger than we are use to.
If we were showing a total lack of desire in our attacking play, I personally would have more concerns atm.
Would be surprised if we didn't go with a flatter back 4 in the second leg and playing a stronger counter attacking game ourselves, which I still think we are more than capable of doing
 

John nó

Well-known member
I'll make a claim brimcbhoy, that this board still aren't prepared to except the fuck up made last season.
10M on Barkas and Ajeti, who we would struggle to get 1M for the pair as things stand.
Could Ange still be having his hands tied with not being able to offload such bad investments? Still the work of PL traitor, who at a guess can't own up to his complete fuck up.
This is still an area where the anger remains, and could yet spill out of control if left unaddressed.
Think the board could still be playing Russian roulette regarding Barkas, especially with PL seeming to have a possible say
 

Tarzan Trump

Well-known member
TET isn't it about time you come down off the SKY soapbox?
Not a fan of Sky, and yes have created a monster within the football world, where the privileged few have benifited hugely and in turn made a bollox out of the CL in general.
But its a product, and the demand is still there regardless. Do these clubs also pay well over the odds? Course they do, but the demand allows it to happen, and the mistakes these clubs make within the transfer market can also be huge.
We are in a totally different market, that has been made harder with the bigger clubs snapping up younger talent, that offer better development opportunities, yet they still have a very poor return on players who develop into top class players for the clubs that invested that much in them.
More interested, in what we are doing and how we can try to close the gap with less opportunity's available? A very hard ask with the Scottish FA who are allowed to hid behind Sky and whinge about it.
So yes we are in a very risky market where we have to get in players that can hit the ground running, cause that is the demand of our support, yet how many fancy the shite that Scottish football allows, corruption, bigotry, blatant cheating mib's etc all for everyone to see, yet goes unchallenged.
We are trying to change the approach with offering 5 year contracts now, giving us a better chance within an ever changing market and showing the player actually wants to be here instead of the 2 year max approach and then they want to move on for the bigger money once they've proved there worth, have we still got this with Turnbull and Ababa?
We have finally bought in the likes of kyogo and starfelt who we would expect to be here for the long term but nothing is guaranteed in the football world.
We have to depend upon Ange judgement at present with what players he feels can benefit us for the present and the longer term, and in fairness what he has bought in so far, don't look to bad and better than what we are used to overall. Still more needs to be done admittedly and yes it can be frustrating with the time delays, but what do we want? Panic buys, who will offer us nothing?
We can't make players come to us, even with the opportunity on offer and yes we can offer similar wages if not better than many other leagues within Europe .
We are still a big name within Europe, that has still produced many a successful young player, yet agents for these players can still use our name to gain a better deal for there players by using our name as an interested party, so agents can be our biggest pain in the ass than sky imo.
We are still trying to create a squad not only of been able to win a league title, but also having the foundations to be able to play at CL group standards next season, all to be hopefully put in place during one transfer window? Not going to happen, yet how many clubs could? This is a process and the first achievement is to get a side together that is worthy of a league title, and already great steps have been made to achieve that, and still work to be done especially in certain positions, that guarantees much better than we already have available.
Tactics, you raised also?
By trying to play out from the back, will make the pitch bigger with more room for our creative players to operate in, now how many teams will be prepared to take that chance against us? Not to many with hopefully the likes of kyogo and abada having the ability to cut them to ribbons given the space. So are we to expect the defend from the halfway line? I would say so still, yet hasn't our movements of the ball and players being of a much better standard we see last season with creating more goal scoring opportunities?
I think so, and this only after a couple of weeks.
Really don't understand all this negative shite, surrounding the club of late, especially after one result when we are in the middle of a European tie, with a makeshift defence, that I'll remain confident will be improved.
Sorry for the long reply TET, but you do raise many points that I felt needed responding to
HH
I dont feel any of the things have said are contrary to anything ive said

My points are my opinion


And none of my points are contrary to anything you have added.


The tactics for any given game must reflect the best option for victory first and flair second

I have no doubts there are good players out there for cheap

But its not gonna be easy to find them and even harder to get them tied up with sky tv arbitray shite


i see blame the defence
i see blame the board
i see blame the goallie
i see blame the coaches


but imo

its all relatiuve to the aerbirary raising of lesser viewed teams to bolster certain leagues


and the bolstering means even if you have 5 year contracts

you have unhappy players if your bloicking them from multiplying their wages by 5 or more in their time constrained careers



i dont saty there is much you can do about it

but te fact remains

imo

its our shite archaic tactics hubris and sky hand outs to lesser clubs that is the reason club are failing


and no changing of goalie or short term fix with good signings will turn that tide if every season your 100M less than worst epl side and probably just as much down. eery season on every other big contract tv deal


the question was why are we failingf

and imo

its arbitrary funding by sky which detracts from our ability to attract players good enough to play our style

and if we play our style with less than capable players for that style they dont get better at it they just fail to win


its no lawqewll

its no kennedy

its no lennon

its no rodgers

its no ange

they all have little control over signings without the cash to pay the players we need

and giving them cash they want will kill club stone dead

it doesnt make club stronger

it kills it without the income needed to sustain it

and if you need to sell your players who are good enough coz you cant afford their wages then your gonna struggle to replace them with anything close exiting player

coz if he is and he accepts your lesser wage and produces then you have same issue next season until you dont replace him with good enough

and every season the gap in income grows arbitrareily

and every season we get a littleweaker

not the boards fault

not kennedys fault

its the arbitrary payments to lesser clubs that are destabilising the football outside elite leagues which are elite cause they are funded by sky

Not because they generate more fans

but because they get that huge income they can corner market and that monoploy kills the competition which is everyteam out of their network

we have benefited while the system was unsaturated and the funding was capable of being breached

but its not possible going forward with past model

unless you have trust fund and desquised remuneration and tax evading bourggeoius and elite loopholes


question why are we going backwards

and thats my opinion


sack board and kennedy and replace with whoever you like

unless they solve the sky riddle or find loopholes the next bunch will not be better option


just like the next setof players will likely not be good enough to compete in europe playing the style we play
 
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