Green brigade songbook

Maria

Well-known member
I believe that I've made it abundantly clear, quite often in fact, that I'm as far from being perfect as any of us on this site can be.

Most of us adopt that position when joining a forum otherwise we set ourselves up for, probably, much deserved criticism.

Those who follow in herds ,"They do move in herds!", are ten-a-penny on any discussion board.

It should be about healthy debate and a bit of craic.

I follow no-one in a herd.

Only Jesus and the Tic.
 
One reason I never use the 'like' function' is due to the fact that I like to reply to posts relevant to the ongoing debate. Not being rude, I hope! Just fearful of upsetting the 'Holier Than Thou' Moses Brigade - who just so happen to claim others act in a High and Mighty' manner - strange, is it not?

One thing many will notice is the 'downtrodden & put down' battalion follow each other like headless sheep in the 'like' regard. If it wasn't so pathetic they would be hilarious.

Woebetide any one to highlight their traits. They only want to be friends.

No, seriously, please show them extra love and kindness or expect to have your domestic residence referred to as a 'chicken dome'.

Please adopt one of our downtrodden today and give them all the 'likes' and cuddles they so deserve.

You could , of course, bring yourself down to their level and take the fucking piss out of them - at the end of the day, that's what they crave so they can hit back and in unison without a single coherent thought of their own.

I shall pass over on the last word, I shall give that to The Usual Supects and 'Maria' who loves the sight of her own words written down as much as that 'boy Anton'.

Don't forget though, it's okay when he/she/it does it 👍
Sniffs.......pass over I see what you did there.Good one Moses
 
I was reading back aboot the Evolution v Creationism debate. Here is my take on it. When I was at Uni of Dundee my chosen subjects were Environmental Science/ Geography ( I know, boring bastard). A core module for this was Evolution and Biodiversity. I went into these lectures an avowed non creationist. Evolution is theory that really does explain the progression from single cell organisms to complex animal forms. However, the beginning of life is much harder to explain. We have to first decide what constitutes life as we know it. When I was at Uni the definition was the ability to reproduce and pass on inheritable information through DNA. We were then told that life may have started through chemical reactions with amino acids, some theorise in a bubble of chemicals. Evolution I can accept, but complex life (as defined above) spontaneously happening of its own accord in a bubble I find really hard to accept. It's not how life how life evolved that's open to question for me but how life began. Here is a bold statement for ye, Creationism and Evolution can co exist, hand in hand.
I would love to hear what others think about this even though this has nothing to do with Celtic or football.
HH fae PRD
 
I was reading back aboot the Evolution v Creationism debate. Here is my take on it. When I was at Uni of Dundee my chosen subjects were Environmental Science/ Geography ( I know, boring bastard). A core module for this was Evolution and Biodiversity. I went into these lectures an avowed non creationist. Evolution is theory that really does explain the progression from single cell organisms to complex animal forms. However, the beginning of life is much harder to explain. We have to first decide what constitutes life as we know it. When I was at Uni the definition was the ability to reproduce and pass on inheritable information through DNA. We were then told that life may have started through chemical reactions with amino acids, some theorise in a bubble of chemicals. Evolution I can accept, but complex life (as defined above) spontaneously happening of its own accord in a bubble I find really hard to accept. It's not how life how life evolved that's open to question for me but how life began. Here is a bold statement for ye, Creationism and Evolution can co exist, hand in hand.
I would love to hear what others think about this even though this has nothing to do with Celtic or football.
HH fae PRD
So you think a supernatural invisible man in the sky is a rational step because we don’t have all the answers? That’s too easy and doesn’t start to explain who created him/her?

How do you account for a being that invents itself then everything else and how could you hope to prove that when he remains in hiding?

Why would he keep hidden?
 
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Maria

Well-known member
I was reading back aboot the Evolution v Creationism debate. Here is my take on it. When I was at Uni of Dundee my chosen subjects were Environmental Science/ Geography ( I know, boring bastard). A core module for this was Evolution and Biodiversity. I went into these lectures an avowed non creationist. Evolution is theory that really does explain the progression from single cell organisms to complex animal forms. However, the beginning of life is much harder to explain. We have to first decide what constitutes life as we know it. When I was at Uni the definition was the ability to reproduce and pass on inheritable information through DNA. We were then told that life may have started through chemical reactions with amino acids, some theorise in a bubble of chemicals. Evolution I can accept, but complex life (as defined above) spontaneously happening of its own accord in a bubble I find really hard to accept. It's not how life how life evolved that's open to question for me but how life began. Here is a bold statement for ye, Creationism and Evolution can co exist, hand in hand.
I would love to hear what others think about this even though this has nothing to do with Celtic or football.
HH fae PRD

And where’s ma giggle 😂😂😂

Im not educated anywhere near enough in that field to comment.

The only thing i thought was are we an amino acid 😂

My take isn’t educated on it but quite simple.

God the creator, created the lands that we live in, nature, wildlife, weather systems and man.

He put the scientists etc here to assist mankind’s constant evolution.

Whats not to like?

He put really clever people here to sustain all life, some choose to take that responsibility for the betterment of others and some choose to detract and destroy.

Probably not even what you were saying haha but forgive a ghirl who keeps it simple.

HH Dundee 👏👏👏👏
 
So you think a supernatural invisible man in the sky is a rational step because we don’t have all the answers? That’s too easy and doesn’t start to explain who created him/her?

How do you account for a being that invents itself then everything else and how could you hope to prove that when he remains in hiding?

I, like you have no idea how or why life started. My point was that Darwins theory and creationism are not mutually exclusive. That's all, nothing else.
For me the beginning of life is still open to question. That does not mean I believe in any alternative theories. I really do not know or claim to know the answer.
Hail Hail fae PRD
 
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So you think a supernatural invisible man in the sky is a rational step because we don’t have all the answers? That’s too easy and doesn’t start to explain who created him/her?

How do you account for a being that invents itself then everything else and how could you hope to prove that when he remains in hiding?

Why would he keep hidden?
You know what verdict, I think you're a decent skin. And while I'm not gonna do it on a public forum, I would love to sit down with ye for a craic on this very topic. I might not change your opinion, but I could certainly give you something to think about. I'm not a big believer in religion, but as far as there being a god, I personally, am 100% certain of it. Someday maybe we can discuss it!
 
You do raise a very good point about songs imo, does the song make the team play better, inspire to drive the team on.

And totally agree with the basic theory.
Just saw this on FB. Very apt
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No doubt that many who cherish a religion claim do so only in name, 'Protestant' for clear example is not even a specific religion and never has been, but it is a word a badge a claim that is spouted often, most proudly and loudly by people many of whom have ironically never practised any actual faith and could not even produce a credible definition or the origin of the word.

Anyway, if your point in showing the image was that education effects real and lasting change!
Then perhaps you need to reflect on some of your own points and thoughts here, on this very subject matter for example you appear to agree with or like those who somehow imagine that the answer to songs sung at Celtic that are not liked by them - is to demand conformity via ridicule as you do yourself directly in the question of is there a God.
So you think a supernatural invisible man in the sky is a rational step because we don’t have all the answers? That’s too easy and doesn’t start to explain who created him/her?

How do you account for a being that invents itself then everything else and how could you hope to prove that when he remains in hiding?

Why would he keep hidden?
Think about the image you posted up! And ask yourself these questions.

Why would you imagine that you or any of us are remotely more important for a personal revelation or understanding than say a single leaf from one of the many millions of trees on earth, many of which are attached to living things which have lived an individual age and known earth a lot longer than any human.

All forms of religious doctrine or guides are obviously largely if not all human adaptations and translations of older concepts from lost languages and cultures.
But that reality does not rule out the possibility and imo strong likelihood that the earth and all in it was a purposeful creation of something that we mortal humans have no credible or real understanding of and hence why faith belief itself is all important core concept in all human religions.

People who are supposed scholars of knowledge, the pure science based thinkers look for evidence and proof! but what if they as humans are incapable of even deciphering such complexity to even consider the evidence.
Certainly beyond me how to explain even comparatively easy to see events such as the numerous plain sight cyclical calendars occurring to enable life as we know it, let alone the mysterious sun and moon, just how a seed falls and then waits and then grows into a specific plant or a food that feeds another life form that itself is designed to refeed back into the cycle. I can define it in a context but not explain it.
Just opening up and examining the inside of a pomegranate and marvelling at the wonder of nature at God call it what you want, because the one absolute certainty to date is there has been no human who can actually explain it or explain it away.

All on earth is so vast so complex and intricate, that no one lifetime can possibly seek to comprehend to understand, so an open mind is the only logic.
That's just earth, which is a comparative spec of dust in what we believe we know of outer space or our claimed known universe.

Just as Ireland and those of it be they the Irish or other, is a lot more complex than the simple image of a religious divide that many accept or view as the problem of Ireland to accept to correct! An extremely simple image for the mind to take in and accept, even if it is one that does not really stand up to much scrutiny or logic, it is one that absolutely suited the competing landed estate owners from the seventeenth century onwards and suited most of all their boss who they all had to pay a portion of their profits to, the so called royals in another land, who promoted the simplistic ideas.
 
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A good post. You are right about all the wonders of the world and their complexities. It even looks or can appear to be of such beauty and wonder that it is not unnatural to think these things could only be at least started by something far greater than just nature.

The truth is we will never know if a god did it for the simple reason he or she does not present themselves. We know that the accounts of how a god did it just aren’t true. The genesis account. That is patently and logically false and that can be proved by evidence.

The issue of evidence is people choose not to fully look at it, so convinced in their minds that god did it and develop cognitive dissonance, where they see and accept explanations that suit their belief system.. it gives people a lot of comfort and if you are brought up to believe, as I was, it is a very disturbing process to challenge stuff you have been indoctrinated into as a child.

When I started to have serious doubts about god in my early teens, it was a bit scary. I kept thinking that Jesus would punish me and my mother backed that up to create fear of god in me. That had the opposite effect on me, as I couldn’t equate a good god as one who would terrify a child into believing in him, or worse, burn one in eternal suffering for not believing.

I started to read the books. In our house we never had a Bible, we had a catechism, so I got a hold of a Bible and read it.

It is a book of great importance to our civilisation and everything but at the same time is horrendous and cruel. The god figure wasn’t the loving Jesus we were brought up to believe, but a vengeful, jealous, needy god, who threatened people with death and worse and who told his tribe to wipe out men woman and children of their enemies. This does not make sense for a loving god and as I became more scientifically knowledgable, the naturalist explanations of the universe origins, it was clear that the Bible got them wrong, this combined with the barbarism and evil being promoted convinced me that it was most likely man made.

I looked at the historicity of Jesus and apart from the Bible, there are no other contemporary evidence. How could that be? A man who claimed to be the messiah, attracted thousands to see him, came with the sword as he himself claimed and yet the Romans never mentioned him. That led me to research the Roman Empire and how they dealt with threats, both perceived and real and they were brutal and there is a ton of stuff that tells us how they dealt with it. To have nothing on Jesus seems nott like them, unless they were all like the Roman characters out of The Life of Brian.

I also noticed that every scientific breakthrough was at first denied by religion, then when evidence was so great, claimed it as its own. People mocked Darwin for suggesting we shared a common ancestor with the apes. We now know that, if you don’t believe that to be true even now read up on it. DNA has allowed us to show, we not only share genetic characteristics with apes but every single living thing on this planet. This is again further evidence for evolution. Life started off in its simplest forms, then evolved which is why we share or possess dna sequencing that can still be found in simple cell life.

Now, we still don’t know how it all kicked off conclusively. We may never, but to say we don’t know, so therefore god did it, is not enough. We have found out so many things that we didn’t know. The God of the Gaps has shown that over the last 200 years, since the enlightenment, these gaps have gotten fewer.

We have a massive amount of evidence of how the beautiful natural world works. Because it looks so wondrous and awe inspiring, people say it must be god. But what god? Whose god? Which one? Why so many? People who believe in god tend to believe in their god. They all have the right one and everybody else’s is wrong. They are as atheistic to every other god, as I am to theirs.

Faith is defined as belief without evidence. I can’t go there anymore. I am awaiting the evidence from a god or gods, that seem happy to see carnage grip the planet as we fight over whose is right. Millions have died in this struggle. Millions have been persecuted for being deemed to have the wrong one. Why would any god allow that? Why?

Up to 8 million children under five due each year of hunger related illness. Preventable illnesses yet he does nothing, as their parents pray to him to save them. Religious apologists say, well that’s mankind’s fault. Well it is, but god could fix it. But choses not to. Why?

He seems to be there when players score goals, or actors win awards, but not when humanity in its millions cry out to save their children.

I came to the conclusion that even if god existed, having the power to save those children and choosing not to, made me feel I wouldn’t worship you even if you were real.

Nobody can prove conclusively that he doesn’t exist, but the burden of proof lies with those who make the claim he does. Not with those who say there is no evidence. Pointing at wonder isn’t an answer that god or gods did it. It is merely saying I don’t understand how it could have happened, so therefore it must have been god. They are oft heard to say, nothing can come from nothing. Well, our concept of what nothing is, is not exactly what nothing could be. We have only recently discovered dark matter, which looked like nothing. It’s funny that the same argument isn’t shone on god, if nothing can come from nothing, then where did he come from? You can’t have it both ways.

As for Ireland, I know it’s history. I was brought up with the stories, the heroes the villains, the tragedy and injustice. I have never decried that or denied it. I am someone of strong political belief too about many things. My problem is not the struggle or the songs for that matter, but only are they appropriate in 2018 and do they inspire the team and do they damage Celtic?

That’s all. It’s not a denial of history or some of our heritage, it’s about the future and trying to move to a place better than where we came. To hold the view regarding the singing of these songs and the politicisation of Celtic as being detrimental seem to be a minority position. I accept that, but I don’t agree with it so have the right to say that without being called mental and a hun. I am neither.

To my mind when our support is in full voice with Celtic songs, you feel yourself lift even if you are watching on the telly. We have all felt that surge of energy we get, we don’t need to be there to feel that. We are part of it. This lifts our players, it lifts us. We don’t get that with political Ira songs. We just don’t. So for long periods of games we are basically not giving the team support because most of the team haven’t a clue what they mean. Or care.

I care about lifting the team, bit giving our enemies, for they are legion, ammunition to use against us. Which it does in my view. And is why I would prefer we didn’t. Be political, get involved by all means. But you really need to do more than sing a song at a football game. Or even ask is this the best place for me to do this and does it harm my club, whilst not lifting the players? That’s why fans are there, to support the team. To give them that shot of energy. To lift them and assure them that whatever happens, we are there. That just doesn’t happen with these songs because the intended recipients are not on the field nor do not have our crest on their heart.
 
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If you believe in God, there is one, for you! It's basically why it's called faith!

Similarly, if you don't there isn't one, for you.

Personally, I just can't believe in one. I've tried to have faith but have too many doubts.

I dislike people trying to shove religion 'down our throats' as much as I dislike religious people being put down for, quite simply, having faith.

If I really did have a faith I don't think I'd get too annoyed by anyone belittling me. I'd be happy enough to let them say what they want.

I know faith gives a lot of comfort to a lot of people. For some, it is there very reason to be alive.

For others, like myself, having others force their beliefs on me just makes me dislike faith.

Mind you, having said all of that, in times of trouble, I always find myself begging for help from a God I don't believe in.

I'd say that comes from, quite a strict, Catholic upbringing. We used to have to say the Rosary every night; I hated doing that!
 

TET

Well-known member
If you believe in God, there is one, for you! It's basically why it's called faith!

Similarly, if you don't there isn't one, for you.

Personally, I just can't believe in one. I've tried to have faith but have too many doubts.

I dislike people trying to shove religion 'down our throats' as much as I dislike religious people being put down for, quite simply, having faith.

If I really did have a faith I don't think I'd get too annoyed by anyone belittling me. I'd be happy enough to let them say what they want.

I know faith gives a lot of comfort to a lot of people. For some, it is there very reason to be alive.

For others, like myself, having others force their beliefs on me just makes me dislike faith.

Mind you, having said all of that, in times of trouble, I always find myself begging for help from a God I don't believe in.

I'd say that comes from, quite a strict, Catholic upbringing. We used to have to say the Rosary every night; I hated doing that!
Repetition without proper understanding is the cause of most lost faith or at least lack of truly experiencing the peace prayer can bring. Rosary without the meditation on the mysteries misses out the whole point of the rosary. Sadly I think its the lack of faith of the people doing the education that leads to lack of faith or understanding what its all about. The hocus locus effect.

The funny thing is most people who pay thousands to visit a shrink to confess are absolutely against the idea of confessing to a priest for free. Despite the confessing part being the bit that often gives relief from mental anguish.

Anyway faith is a personal thing. But the general principles can be learned which can inspire deeper investigation through prayer to find love. For religion without the search for love in action is not really faith at all in my opinion.
 

TET

Well-known member
Heres an old documentary with some of the original 1916 trouble makers (hahahaha) filmed in 1973 trying 6o explain in their own words to an Englishman what it was all about.

Its one of my favourite documentaries ever made. And well Its real history from some of the people who were there.

I think it belongs in this thread

Might need to rewind the video Ithink I copied it at an excerpt with Tom Barry from the Cork Flying squad.

Really worth a watch from the beginning

 
Heres an old documentary with some of the original 1916 trouble makers (hahahaha) filmed in 1973 trying 6o explain in their own words to an Englishman what it was all about.

Its one of my favourite documentaries ever made. And well Its real history from some of the people who were there.

I think it belongs in this thread

Might need to rewind the video Ithink I copied it at an excerpt with Tom Barry from the Cork Flying squad.

Really worth a watch from the beginning

The Tom Barry book " Guerrilla Days In Ireland" is a must read.
 
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