Have we reached an impasse?

On a completely different note. The stronger celtic get financially compared with rest of scottish football the more boring its going to be for other scottish fans. and when hope dies so does the support.

So making Celtic even more powerful might actually make the rest of the teams even weaker and thus even more lopsided football league.

Which, in turn, will turn off even more potential future players, since football becomes so boring to watch that few want to actually pretend to be their heros.

Celtic just need to cut the rot, build more of their own players, and continue to cherry pick viable long term acquisitions who will serve club well, and make a profit at the end of the day, or make the club as strong as possible for as long as possible.

The way football is going with corruption, I cant see it lasting in its curent format for more than another 30, 40 years

My local team Yoker are so bad that the last time i watched them it was worse than watching weans play in the street 30 years ago
 
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Assuming you have not the drug dealer has 1 million street value drugs so wants the distribution wholesale team to buy it at 1 million

guy tries to explain the nature of business and the layers of people getting thier cut of merchandise before it gets the street value of 1 million

So he can only offer him fraction of 1 million but the drug dealer doesnt get it.

Same with sevco fans they dont get it.

The bit your no getting is for the money you pay you want something in return the moeny that sports generates in us is usually around the matches of competitive nature. same as here.

MAybe having celtic playing in major league might bring in mega millions but to watch the game on tv and buy the odd trinket they arent gonna be handing over mega bucks.

Thats the exact same theory KIng keeps conning the huns with and the alistair johnston (institutional murder suspect) tried to get funding for the horde.

If its there I would put my money on Lawell and DD (nice set youve got there) being just the right men to tap into that gold.
hahaha! economics 101!!!!
 
guys with ambition dont always buy into sentiment, bonus is there goal
the bunnet was the most hard headed businessman seen in in scottish football, he did exactly what he said he would do,"phuq them and their 9,10 in a row,Celtic will be here in another 100 years" he built a legacy,he took no shit,(ask jim farry) and he SAVED THE CLUB!!!!!!! wee fergus was not everyone's cup of tea,but by phuq i would'nt mind him back!!!!!!!
 
On Friday following the defeat to Valencia I made a few points about how something's got to give at Celtic if we have any ambition of improving on the European stage......

''The bottom line is BR's favoured tactics of playing out from the back will not work in Europe with this group of players so we either need to ditch it or sign players who are capable of pulling it off.''

''Something's got to give here, either the tactics on the pitch have to change or the tactics in the boardroom have to because right now it doesn't matter who plays whether it's Gordon or Bain, Boyata, Simunovic, or Ajer, Toljan or Lustig, KT or Izzy, Brown or McGregor we always end up with the same outcome whenever teams press us.''

Now today Brendan has hinted that some of the current squad have reached their level and that level falls short of what's required to make inroads in Europe, he alludes to the fact that if we want to make progress on the European front then it will require investing in a better standard of player and that means a change in the club's transfer policy. And there's the rub, since Brendan doesn't look like budging on his philosophy of how we should play and Lawell and the board look in NO way interested in changing their approach when it comes to player recruitment have we finally reached an impasse between manager and board that can't be overcome?

Just before anyone comments I would ask that this doesn't become yet another 'we can't compete financially' or 'the board are more interested in the balance sheet' debate as we all have different views on that which have been discussed at length already. What I'm really asking here is what do you think is the driving factor behind our shortcomings in Europe? Is it Brendan's refusal to change his tactics on the pitch that are the root of our problems when it comes to competing in Europe or is it the board's transfer policy that makes it impossible for BR and the bhoys to compete? Also is there a way round this problem that both parties can agree on or have we reached an impasse where one or the other has to give ground and change their approach.

HH bhoys and ghirls.

I think the biggest problem is as soon as a team start to play we bottle it. We get the fear of losing the ball so much we can’t even play the simplest of passes. This I believe us centred in having no faith in the defence to deal with the opposition, so we are strangled by caution.

Even if we played with freedom and belief we would probably still lose because of the gulf in class,

But, to be so timid and fearful is something we should be able to improve.

I have likened them to rabbit’s caught in the headlights. For that is what it looks like.

Nobody expects us to go for it in the transfer window. But the board must realise qualifying for the CL is the main guarantee we will prevail at home. Showing that competition no respect and hoping it all works out has failed. We need quality, we have money and we must do it.

Two more CL qualifications and every couch and sofa, every teddy bear bank, every loan will be exhausted and that is how we finish them, whilst keeping them around to horse 5-6 times a year.

We must invest and the players we have must stop being overawed and at the very least be able to string three passes together.

Thursday is a free game. No one expects us to beat them, but by fuck they need to stand up and at least throw a punch. I hope they do because they embarrassed themselves last week. I can’t see us playing as woefully again. Hopefully they won’t.
 
Once again a lot of brilliant points being made (y)

The reason I started this thread was that even though I've been a vocal critic of Lawell and the board for implementing what I still regard as a flawed inflexible and ultimately damaging transfer policy, that imo limits our potential as a club and hinders the manager's ability to make progress on the pitch, I'm also becoming increasingly frustrated with BR's refusal to deviate from his own philosophy of 'playing out from the back' when it comes to Europe. Especially given that he himself now recognises he doesn't have the players to make it work at that level.

Don't get me wrong I'm still a big fan of BR and the way he wants us to play and what he has achieved domestically has been nothing short of outstanding but there comes a point when you have to look at the practicalities of what you're trying to achieve. When it comes to European football we simply don't have the standard of player required to play the way BR wants and to carry on employing the same flawed tactics and expecting different results is equally as blinkered as a board who hopes to qualify for the CL even though they continually undermine that aim by forcing the manager to work on a shoestring budget and attaching ridiculously narrow criteria to any player he wants to bring in.

My worry is that neither Brendan nor the board are willing to budge an inch on their respective philosophies and it results in one of this club's greatest managers walking away in the summer declaring that he has taken Celtic as far as he can. I hope this isn't the case but as I said something's got to give here and I think both sides need to reevaluate their positions.

HH.
 
Once again a lot of brilliant points being made (y)

The reason I started this thread was that even though I've been a vocal critic of Lawell and the board for implementing what I still regard as a flawed inflexible and ultimately damaging transfer policy, that imo limits our potential as a club and hinders the manager's ability to make progress on the pitch, I'm also becoming increasingly frustrated with BR's refusal to deviate from his own philosophy of 'playing out from the back' when it comes to Europe. Especially given that he himself now recognises he doesn't have the players to make it work at that level.

Don't get me wrong I'm still a big fan of BR and the way he wants us to play and what he has achieved domestically has been nothing short of outstanding but there comes a point when you have to look at the practicalities of what you're trying to achieve. When it comes to European football we simply don't have the standard of player required to play the way BR wants and to carry on employing the same flawed tactics and expecting different results is equally as blinkered as a board who hopes to qualify for the CL even though they continually undermine that aim by forcing the manager to work on a shoestring budget and attaching ridiculously narrow criteria to any player he wants to bring in.

My worry is that neither Brendan nor the board are willing to budge an inch on their respective philosophies and it results in one of this club's greatest managers walking away in the summer declaring that he has taken Celtic as far as he can. I hope this isn't the case but as I said something's got to give here and I think both sides need to reevaluate their positions.

HH.
Andybhoy, I share your fear, and a I think most other supporters do as well.

But I do think we can take BR at his word here. He was asked last year if he was going to take the job at @@@@ - whatever the opening was at the time in England - and he was very explicit that he had a 4 year contract, and that 6+4=10. He couldn’t have spelled it out more clearly than that! He gets what 10IAR means, and I think he wants to stay for it and cement his place in Celtic folklore forever. After that, all bets are off, but I do believe that if Celtic were to somehow be in a meaningfully stronger place in 2 years regarding CL, or even Europa League, he might stick around past 10. But we’re getting ahead of ourselves here... first the 10!
 
Andybhoy, I share your fear, and a I think most other supporters do as well.

But I do think we can take BR at his word here. He was asked last year if he was going to take the job at @@@@ - whatever the opening was at the time in England - and he was very explicit that he had a 4 year contract, and that 6+4=10. He couldn’t have spelled it out more clearly than that! He gets what 10IAR means, and I think he wants to stay for it and cement his place in Celtic folklore forever. After that, all bets are off, but I do believe that if Celtic were to somehow be in a meaningfully stronger place in 2 years regarding CL, or even Europa League, he might stick around past 10. But we’re getting ahead of ourselves here... first the 10!

I really hope you're right mate. It just seems like after Brendan's recent comments, where he hints that it's going to take far more investment to push on in Europe, that there's 2 completely different ideologies racing towards one another and only one is going to win out instead of a compromise being found.

HH.
 
Tactics is a big point for me we don't do the anti football thing very well. I don't think we have enough options with plenty of taller players mf onwards that are rough and tumble and bully the opposition by playing a high ball. Don't think our movement is as crisp as it could be in Europe...or they just shut down space better due to the calibre of player?
The biggest factor is say you pick our best 15 players. They are all fully fit. They are all in good form and have 2yrs say left on the contract. What sort of money would you want for them? Would we pay that?
These same players take a dip in form or get injured or run down contracts to get away or jump ship.
We don't have a stable foundation to build a better team. We can't afford to buy one.
We are right in the English shop window and it has been the life blood of much of our transfer earnings.
I wouldn't say it's the ceiling of just the players. We would need stars to align every big Euro match to progress. Or be able to get 4+ years out of our very best foreign players before they move which isn't happening.
 
This is over 15 years old at this point, and I’m not going to pretend it’s still accurate (also does not include Japan as this was pre-Nakamura). But read this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_F.C._supporters
Particularly the Fanbase section.

But even if this is true, the American fanbase alone ought to be a goldmine, particularly given the spending power and the relative prices American fans pay to support their clubs (tickets to NFL, NBA, NHL are all $100+ just to walk into the stadium with premium seats running much more).

Consider the following math:
1,000,000 fans in North America
15% subscribe to CelticTV £189.99/year
20% buy a shirt at £60 (guessing here at the cost)
5% travel to Celtic Park for 1 match (or 1% for 5 matches like the Argentina Supporters Club recently visited for multiple matches) at £50 per person including food, beer, merchandise, etc.

If you do the math, that’s £43m of annual income! And that’s just 1 million of the supposed 9 million fans. Add in Asia, South America, and mainland Europe, and that number grows very quickly even if you assume 9 million is vastly overstated. And that’s also not counting any sponsorship income related to those fans as Magners is only exported in limited quantites outside the British Isles, and Dafabet is illegal (online gambling) in many places including America.

And I would also suggest that 15% attach rate on CelticTV should be considered a VERY low bar to hit as the Scottish league isn’t covered well, if at all, outside of the U.K. and CelticTV remains the #1 way foreign supporters connect with and follow the club. Given the proliferation of Netflix, ESPN+, HULU, Amazon Prime, and other streaming services, that number should approach 30%+ even accounting for the fact that many of those supporters will have the same residence.
There is absolutely no doubt that there is a significant number of dedicated Celtic fans in North America, but many of the numbers cited are Celtic fans in the Irish/Scottish tradition only.

It's the equivalent of me following the Boston Celtics in basketball on a token basis, due to their name and colour scheme. I have no intention of paying for the privilege and this is similar to the sentiments of many of those who may have an affinity to our football club.

Forgive me if I appear deliberately contradictory, BL. I would be more than willing for Our Club to tap into the potential revenue streams that those numbers could potentially generate.

I just feel it is extremely optimistic to believe that these numbers are available to tap into. Perhaps some cross-promotion with franchises in the North American Irish/Scottish communities may reap some reward, but otherwise - the burgeoning American appetite for football is still largely focused on the exposure granted by the EPL and the financially doped superclubs.
 
There is absolutely no doubt that there is a significant number of dedicated Celtic fans in North America, but many of the numbers cited are Celtic fans in the Irish/Scottish tradition only.

It's the equivalent of me following the Boston Celtics in basketball on a token basis, due to their name and colour scheme. I have no intention of paying for the privilege and this is similar to the sentiments of many of those who may have an affinity to our football club.

Forgive me if I appear deliberately contradictory, BL. I would be more than willing for Our Club to tap into the potential revenue streams that those numbers could potentially generate.

I just feel it is extremely optimistic to believe that these numbers are available to tap into. Perhaps some cross-promotion with franchises in the North American Irish/Scottish communities may reap some reward, but otherwise - the burgeoning American appetite for football is still largely focused on the exposure granted by the EPL and the financially doped superclubs.
I respectfully disagree with your conclusion. It is true that a lot of the American support is very nominal in nature, the club isn’t doing anything in America to build its brand or engage its supporters here. The popularity of English clubs here can be traced right back to the TV deals - until 2-3 years ago, the EPL was the only league that had any sort of regular TV coverage in America. Even now, Italy has none, La Liga has none (although Barca & Real Madrid have coverage on a 3rd tier channel most people don’t get), France has none, and the Bundesliga coverage is both new and poor and virtually 100% dedicated to Bayern Munich. Honestly, the Mexican league has better TV coverage here - on Spanish speaking channels - than all the European leagues except the EPL.

Regardless, I do believe two things:
(1) with the size of the population, there is a very significant number of people willing to engage Celtic in a significant meaningful way that would be valuable both to the club and potential sponsors. Even if this is only 100k in a country of 300M+ people, that’s still a huge opportunity if each one could bring in $100+ each per year.
(2) if the club were to more aggressively market itself over here - getting matches shown in pubs, getting cross promotional sponsorships with other Irish/Scottish brands and events, and even permanently signing a couple USA national team players (*cough* Weah! *cough*) - the popularity of the club would explode. Of particular benefit IMO is the club’s roots being founded by priests to feed starving Irish-Catholic immigrants and the lineage with the Celtic Foundation’s current work. I think that mission would resonate with a lot of people over here, and there are a lot of perhaps ‘casual’ fans that might be willing to support the club in monetary terms if this story were more well known. As an aside, I didn’t even know the background myself until after I had already attended a match at Celtic Park, and nearly everyone I mention it to is equally ignorant.

The American audience, except for expats, aren’t ‘born’ into the Celtic family like you are in Scotland and Ireland. We need to be converted. But with the ties to both Irish and Scottish cultures (and the Irish culture is HUGE here) as well as the uniqueness of the charitable roots, Celtic as a club are very marketable here and have a ceiling much, much higher than what is commonly assumed.
 
I respectfully disagree with your conclusion. It is true that a lot of the American support is very nominal in nature, the club isn’t doing anything in America to build its brand or engage its supporters here. The popularity of English clubs here can be traced right back to the TV deals - until 2-3 years ago, the EPL was the only league that had any sort of regular TV coverage in America. Even now, Italy has none, La Liga has none (although Barca & Real Madrid have coverage on a 3rd tier channel most people don’t get), France has none, and the Bundesliga coverage is both new and poor and virtually 100% dedicated to Bayern Munich. Honestly, the Mexican league has better TV coverage here - on Spanish speaking channels - than all the European leagues except the EPL.

Regardless, I do believe two things:
(1) with the size of the population, there is a very significant number of people willing to engage Celtic in a significant meaningful way that would be valuable both to the club and potential sponsors. Even if this is only 100k in a country of 300M+ people, that’s still a huge opportunity if each one could bring in $100+ each per year.
(2) if the club were to more aggressively market itself over here - getting matches shown in pubs, getting cross promotional sponsorships with other Irish/Scottish brands and events, and even permanently signing a couple USA national team players (*cough* Weah! *cough*) - the popularity of the club would explode. Of particular benefit IMO is the club’s roots being founded by priests to feed starving Irish-Catholic immigrants and the lineage with the Celtic Foundation’s current work. I think that mission would resonate with a lot of people over here, and there are a lot of perhaps ‘casual’ fans that might be willing to support the club in monetary terms if this story were more well known. As an aside, I didn’t even know the background myself until after I had already attended a match at Celtic Park, and nearly everyone I mention it to is equally ignorant.

The American audience, except for expats, aren’t ‘born’ into the Celtic family like you are in Scotland and Ireland. We need to be converted. But with the ties to both Irish and Scottish cultures (and the Irish culture is HUGE here) as well as the uniqueness of the charitable roots, Celtic as a club are very marketable here and have a ceiling much, much higher than what is commonly assumed.
Is there any interest from ethnic groups in the USA towards Scottish football and in particular Celtic.
 
Is there any interest from ethnic groups in the USA towards Scottish football and in particular Celtic. ..
like the irish ? :)
 
Ben has a point maybe.. should we be aggressively promoting celtic in America.
 
I respectfully disagree with your conclusion. It is true that a lot of the American support is very nominal in nature, the club isn’t doing anything in America to build its brand or engage its supporters here. The popularity of English clubs here can be traced right back to the TV deals - until 2-3 years ago, the EPL was the only league that had any sort of regular TV coverage in America. Even now, Italy has none, La Liga has none (although Barca & Real Madrid have coverage on a 3rd tier channel most people don’t get), France has none, and the Bundesliga coverage is both new and poor and virtually 100% dedicated to Bayern Munich. Honestly, the Mexican league has better TV coverage here - on Spanish speaking channels - than all the European leagues except the EPL.

Regardless, I do believe two things:
(1) with the size of the population, there is a very significant number of people willing to engage Celtic in a significant meaningful way that would be valuable both to the club and potential sponsors. Even if this is only 100k in a country of 300M+ people, that’s still a huge opportunity if each one could bring in $100+ each per year.
(2) if the club were to more aggressively market itself over here - getting matches shown in pubs, getting cross promotional sponsorships with other Irish/Scottish brands and events, and even permanently signing a couple USA national team players (*cough* Weah! *cough*) - the popularity of the club would explode. Of particular benefit IMO is the club’s roots being founded by priests to feed starving Irish-Catholic immigrants and the lineage with the Celtic Foundation’s current work. I think that mission would resonate with a lot of people over here, and there are a lot of perhaps ‘casual’ fans that might be willing to support the club in monetary terms if this story were more well known. As an aside, I didn’t even know the background myself until after I had already attended a match at Celtic Park, and nearly everyone I mention it to is equally ignorant.

The American audience, except for expats, aren’t ‘born’ into the Celtic family like you are in Scotland and Ireland. We need to be converted. But with the ties to both Irish and Scottish cultures (and the Irish culture is HUGE here) as well as the uniqueness of the charitable roots, Celtic as a club are very marketable here and have a ceiling much, much higher than what is commonly assumed.
I should also note the pure value proposition here is pretty compelling.

In an era of cord cutting, the one type of content that generally can’t be accessed without a TV subscription is live sporting events. CelticTV, especially at the price it’s sold at, is a tremendous value for those who want to see live soccer on a streaming platform.

I personally think the product could be a lot better, but even as is, I do think anyone even nominally supportive of the club would consider CelticTV due to the flexibility of being able to watch anywhere on any device and not being forced to subscribe to Cable/Sattelite at $100-150/month.

I also think it would be a huge asset to pub operators to offer something unique as pretty much the only soccer available in Irish pubs today is EPL and the ocassional CL match. It’s ridiculous IMO that Irish pubs here show EPL but can’t get (or don’t know how to get is perhaps more accurate) Celtic matches!
 
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