How is this fair!!!

Digger

Well-known member
Really sorry to hear about your niece and beleave me I do understand how she feels,I left school in 1962 without a school leaving certificate because I had the odasity to be ill for 3 months so when I returned to school was held back a year so when it came to leave was told Iwas in the wrong year ok can I stay for another term NO I was top of the school for tech drawing in the top 3 for maths and third time in the class I was in,explained that I wanted to go into engineering,tough you can't have one all because I was ill nothing has changed people makeing decisions that effects others from thier position of power, her parents need to make the strongest possible appeal write to her M P whatever it takes, of course it could have been my odd socks wearing wellies in the summer and old clothes,don't let them win
 

tictastic

Well-known member
Really sorry to hear about your niece and beleave me I do understand how she feels,I left school in 1962 without a school leaving certificate because I had the odasity to be ill for 3 months so when I returned to school was held back a year so when it came to leave was told Iwas in the wrong year ok can I stay for another term NO I was top of the school for tech drawing in the top 3 for maths and third time in the class I was in,explained that I wanted to go into engineering,tough you can't have one all because I was ill nothing has changed people makeing decisions that effects others from thier position of power, her parents need to make the strongest possible appeal write to her M P whatever it takes, of course it could have been my odd socks wearing wellies in the summer and old clothes,don't let them win
Wellies in the summer. me anaw Digger. and the marks roon yer legs? dead giveaway.
 

Ray

Well-known member
Really sorry to hear about your niece and beleave me I do understand how she feels,I left school in 1962 without a school leaving certificate because I had the odasity to be ill for 3 months so when I returned to school was held back a year so when it came to leave was told Iwas in the wrong year ok can I stay for another term NO I was top of the school for tech drawing in the top 3 for maths and third time in the class I was in,explained that I wanted to go into engineering,tough you can't have one all because I was ill nothing has changed people makeing decisions that effects others from thier position of power, her parents need to make the strongest possible appeal write to her M P whatever it takes, of course it could have been my odd socks wearing wellies in the summer and old clothes,don't let them win
Yes D ,remember these days also ,I am 74 ,remember the 11 plus like it was yesterday,my best buddy and I where in the top 3/4 through final years at primary, when results came out we where devestated to learn we only made junior secondary rather than senior secondary, as I say can remember the 11pilu ,and know I passed !!!!!
As junior secondary we where in 1A,2A,3A,supposed to be top class in school, I won prizes in tech drawing ,science , music,art,,after about two years ,my mother asked if I could be transferred to higher school ,answer no ,as they had to maintain some sort of success rate ,at junior school ?the education system sucked then, good pupils never were giving the chance,to succeed as they maybe could have ,
This school system now gives all a chance to be successful,if they can be bothered ,makes these assessment all the more galling for hard working pupils,who get down graded
 

Shadow2

Well-known member
Feel so sorry for your niece Lubo, she should be judged on individual merit not on the merits of others, she should definitely be appealing that decision.

Marking individual pupils down on the basis of their school average is a shocking way to attribute grades to individuals given the impact such a decision will have on these kids futures. It's another part of the toxic legacy of Tory Government introducing school league tables and successive UK Governments since then not abolishing them.

With the Education system in Scotland being entirely separate from England's you've got to wonder why successive Scottish Governments have mirrored the league table approach of the rest of the UK. Just like in England Scottish schools have become so focused on climbing those league tables that they've lost sight of the most important thing.....giving these kids a proper meaningful education.

And the biggest reason why so many Scottish kids have been graded down this year is because schools have become so obsessed with climbing those league tables that schools/teachers have deliberately overstated the expected grades of their pupils in the 2020 exams to push their schools up the league tables.

ER1.jpg

The truth is if you look at the table above due to the Covid crisis the 2020 grade estimates of pupils in Scotland have been deliberately exaggerated by schools in an attempt to push their school up the league table, what the SQA (Scottish Qualification Authority) have had to do is downgrade those dodgy estimates supplied by schools to bring them back in line with what's been the norm in previous years to give a clearer more accurate representation of grades. What that's resulted in is individual pupils being unfairly marked down because they've been caught up in the politics of all this league table nonsense.
 
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boab1916

Well-known member
Feel so sorry for your niece Lubo, she should be judged on individual merit not on the merits of others, she should definitely be appealing that decision.

Marking individual pupils down on the basis of their school average is a shocking way to attribute grades to individuals given the impact such a decision will have on these kids futures. It's another part of the toxic legacy of John Major's Tory Government introducing school league tables and successive UK Governments since then not abolishing them.

With the Education system in Scotland being entirely separate from England's you've got to wonder why successive Scottish Governments have mirrored the league table approach of the rest of the UK. Just like in England Scottish schools have become so focused on climbing those league tables that they've lost sight of the most important thing.....giving these kids a proper meaningful education.

And the biggest reason why so many Scottish kids have been graded down this year is because schools have become so obsessed with climbing those league tables that schools/teachers have deliberately overstated the expected grades of their pupils in the 2020 exams to push their schools up the league tables.

View attachment 10488

The truth is if you look at the table above due to the Covid crisis the 2020 grade estimates of pupils in Scotland have been deliberately exaggerated by schools in an attempt to push their school up the league table, what the SQA (Scottish Qualification Authority) have had to do is downgrade those dodgy estimates supplied by schools to bring them back in line with what's been the norm in previous years to give a clearer more accurate representation of grades. What that's resulted in is individual pupils being unfairly marked down because they've been caught up in the politics of all this league table nonsense.
Appeal appeal appeal
 

Shadow2

Well-known member
Appeal appeal appeal

Naw I agree Boab, Lubo's niece and many others should appeal. Like I said individual pupils are being unfairly graded down based on a school average, there's nothing right or fair about that.

But in Scotland's case you only have to look at that table above to see that schools were trying to gerrymander the figures to push up their pass %. Look at the pass % for the previous years then look at the estimated pass % schools supplied the SQA with for 2020, they are way above the average of previous years.

It points to Scottish schools using the cover of the Covid crisis to push their way up the school league tables because exam results were being based on an estimated pass % (supplied by the schools) instead of actual exam results. That's why there was a 93% downgrading by the SQA, the figures they were given were fiddled.

The biggest issue here is that individual pupils have been denied basic fairness and that denial could impact the rest of their lives. I can see 1000's of appeals being lodged and most of those appeals being upheld but people need to learn from this, the whole school league table thing needs to be scrapped.
 
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Lubos left peg

Well-known member
Naw I agree Boab, Lubo's niece and many others should appeal. Like I said individual pupils are being unfairly graded down based on a school average, there's nothing right or fair about that.

But in Scotland's case you only have to look at that table above to see that schools were trying to gerrymander the figures to push up their pass %. Look at the pass % for the previous years then look at the estimated pass % schools supplied the SQA with for 2020, they are way above the average of previous years.

It points to Scottish schools using the cover of the Covid crisis to push their way up the school league tables because exam results were being based on an estimated pass % (supplied by the schools) instead of actual exam results. That's why there was a 93% downgrading by the SQA, the figures they were given were fiddled.

The biggest issue here is that individual pupils have been denied basic fairness and that denial could impact the rest of their lives. I can see 1000's of appeals being lodged and most of those appeals being upheld but people need to learn from this, the whole school league table thing needs to be scrapped.

Thanks shadow. I understand a bit more now. My niece should win her appeal as she has been an A student. It was just really upsetting to her when she got her results through as she's worked so hard. Once again thank you all for your replies to this thread.
 

Digger

Well-known member
Feel so sorry for your niece Lubo, she should be judged on individual merit not on the merits of others, she should definitely be appealing that decision.

Marking individual pupils down on the basis of their school average is a shocking way to attribute grades to individuals given the impact such a decision will have on these kids futures. It's another part of the toxic legacy of Tory Government introducing school league tables and successive UK Governments since then not abolishing them.

With the Education system in Scotland being entirely separate from England's you've got to wonder why successive Scottish Governments have mirrored the league table approach of the rest of the UK. Just like in England Scottish schools have become so focused on climbing those league tables that they've lost sight of the most important thing.....giving these kids a proper meaningful education.

And the biggest reason why so many Scottish kids have been graded down this year is because schools have become so obsessed with climbing those league tables that schools/teachers have deliberately overstated the expected grades of their pupils in the 2020 exams to push their schools up the league tables.

View attachment 10488

The truth is if you look at the table above due to the Covid crisis the 2020 grade estimates of pupils in Scotland have been deliberately exaggerated by schools in an attempt to push their school up the league table, what the SQA (Scottish Qualification Authority) have had to do is downgrade those dodgy estimates supplied by schools to bring them back in line with what's been the norm in previous years to give a clearer more accurate representation of grades. What that's resulted in is individual pupils being unfairly marked down because they've been caught up in the politics of all this league table nonsense.
good info,shows the empire builders are still out thier,of course no thought or concern for the pupils effected,its hard enough for people to build a career in this day and age employers are looking for well educated individuals with a proven learning history they need help not hinderence
 

Shadow2

Well-known member
Thanks shadow. I understand a bit more now. My niece should win her appeal as she has been an A student. It was just really upsetting to her when she got her results through as she's worked so hard. Once again thank you all for your replies to this thread.

Both she and you have every right to be upset mate, there's no valid reason for a straight A student to be marked down based on the ability of others, it's a ridiculous notion.

I'm sure she'll win her appeal and get the grades she deserves Lubo. Terrible situation for her to be in mate but tell her not to worry too much all the evidence is there with her prelims and other course work to prove that they've made a mistake with her grades. (y)
 

Shadow2

Well-known member
good info,shows the empire builders are still out thier,of course no thought or concern for the pupils effected,its hard enough for people to build a career in this day and age employers are looking for well educated individuals with a proven learning history they need help not hinderence

Funny your Empire builders comment and the whole issue surrounding the marking down of pupils from deprived backgrounds just reminded me of this George Carlin stand-up bit Digger, the guy had the whole thing nailed.

He's talking about America here but it's just as relevant if not more relevant to the UK given how all those who pull the strings in this country, whether it's business or government or those we rely on to hold them to account or inform us about their motives and actions etc. just so happen to have all been educated together at a select number of private schools and universities.....

 

Big Bobo's bunnet

Well-known member
My neighbour downstairs is a teacher and lives with her daughter doing her last year. They were promised early on a consideration of previous coursework before grading. I didn't know that they have done this now.
Terrible.
With the flood of processing it seems they have kicked the can down the road and applied basic grades knowing full well that appeals will flood in buying time to process them.
She won't be alone Lubo. It's a horrible position to put a student in that has worked so hard and I don't think they considered it. Possibly the mum's and dad's further up the food chain with more clout have forced the grades to be issued too early?
There will be teachers unions and everyone from similar schools going ape about this decision, quite rightly.
The wheels will already be in motion to protect the hard working and talented. You cannot control the private schools that force pupils through to achive grades.
Done a few courses I made an arse of. Passed a few exams I shouldn't of and got lower grades on some I was expected to sail through.
One thing I did find was that a quality network or people will fight for her knowing what she put into this.
It may be hard right now but console her as this may be a first kick of life.
Not all are deserved but with her diligence and work ethic she will be stronger at the other end.
Good luck and keep us posted bud
 

Nick66

Well-known member
Just got off the phone to my niece. She's been in tears all day. She has studied her backside off for her exams. She was expecting to get all As....obviously due to covid they couldn't do their exams so the grades where based on students previous work. My neice has been a grade A student throughout her school years...this morning she opened her results to find all Cs (she needed As to the uni she wanted to go to to do engineering)...turns out that they have decided to look at the school as a whole and grade all students based on schools previous results. 93% of Scottish students have been graded down. The other 7% graded up....doesn't take a genius to guess the students graded up are all fucking privately educated. Now my niece has to go through an appeals process to hopefully get a place she deserves and now has to fight for just because of the area she comes from. While some dump fucking idiot who comes from money won't have a care in the world. Disgraceful.
It's not ideal Lubo, it' seems to be a problem throughout the grading. I hope your niece appeals and given what you sat re- past results she should be given the A's deserved. Let us all know how things turn out. ๐Ÿซ๐Ÿ“œ๐Ÿ‘ฉโ€๐ŸŽ“๐Ÿ‘
 

Cairnsybhoy79

Well-known member
Just got off the phone to my niece. She's been in tears all day. She has studied her backside off for her exams. She was expecting to get all As....obviously due to covid they couldn't do their exams so the grades where based on students previous work. My neice has been a grade A student throughout her school years...this morning she opened her results to find all Cs (she needed As to the uni she wanted to go to to do engineering)...turns out that they have decided to look at the school as a whole and grade all students based on schools previous results. 93% of Scottish students have been graded down. The other 7% graded up....doesn't take a genius to guess the students graded up are all fucking privately educated. Now my niece has to go through an appeals process to hopefully get a place she deserves and now has to fight for just because of the area she comes from. While some dump fucking idiot who comes from money won't have a care in the world. Disgraceful.
Aye I saw on news they were estimating they're grades I never got how that cud work wen it gets closer to exam time some kids do better to get the grade then we get the smart kids like your niece an grade a student ALL the time n gets fuckin c 'sit just shows even a dumbfuck like me knew it couldn't work estimating over the year fuckin stupid these people have diplomas n shit like that and this is all they kin come up with to grade pupils it's a disgrace were gonny miss out on doctors scientist and the like all because some arseholes had a brain fart I feel dead sorry for ur niece mate thats a pure liberty man
 

Shadow2

Well-known member
The fish has done a u turn,as she dose not want pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds to feel they were treated badly they were and always have been good luck to the pupils being reassessed,hope they get it right this time

While I agree with the sentiment of your post Digger one thing needs to be made clear, Sturgeon HASN'T done a u-turn, there was nothing for her to do a u-turn on. The Scottish government had nothing whatsoever to do with the downgrading of exam results as the SQA (who rightly downgraded the pass % but wrongly applied it across the board) are completely independent of government.

What she did do was issue an apology (why I don't know, maybe she ultimately believes it's her responsibility as FM) for the upset and anxiety this has caused pupils and for how the SQA went about their unfair downgrading of individual pupils who warranted a higher grade.

She also promised to step in and amend the system the SQA used to come to their conclusions. (which btw is something her political rivals would usually be demanding her head on a spike for as it would normally be considered political interference in an independent authority but as the Scots Tories & Labour have made such a song and dance about all of this being ScotGov's fault and how it was up to them to fix it they can't very well now start condemning what they've been demanding).

If you look beyond the screaming headlines of all of this the reality is schools across the UK fiddled the numbers and exaggerated their estimates on expected grades, the qualification authorities in each country corrected that fiddle but done it in a unfair way which also downgraded the results of individuals who were likely to have a higher pass grade. Also worth noting that in England and Wales there was a 40% downgrading of results and there is NO process for pupils to appeal against the decision while in Scotland there was a 26% downgrading but every pupil has the right to an appeal and get the grade overturned.

The absolute nonsensical and telling thing about the insane shrieking by the Scottish Tories, Scottish Labour and the UK press in all of this is that NOT ONE OF THEM are blaming the UK (Tory run) or the Welsh (Labour run) governments for these downgraded exam results yet are lambasting the Scottish government for it even though it has nothing whatsoever to do with any government! And even if it did there were less pupils downgraded in Scotland, there is an appeals process open to pupils in Scotland which doesn't even exist for pupils in England and Wales and the Scottish government are the only government who are stepping in to change the flawed system used by their country's qualification authority.

The reporting of Scottish issues, not just by the press in Scotland but the rest in the UK, is getting so fucking skewed and devoid of facts it's getting ridiculous. Think the BritNats may be getting worried about something, wonder whit that could be! :unsure:
 

Bridie Bhoy

Well-known member
While I agree with the sentiment of your post Digger one thing needs to be made clear, Sturgeon HASN'T done a u-turn, there was nothing for her to do a u-turn on. The Scottish government had nothing whatsoever to do with the downgrading of exam results as the SQA (who rightly downgraded the pass % but wrongly applied it across the board) are completely independent of government.

What she did do was issue an apology (why I don't know, maybe she ultimately believes it's her responsibility as FM) for the upset and anxiety this has caused pupils and for how the SQA went about their unfair downgrading of individual pupils who warranted a higher grade.

She also promised to step in and amend the system the SQA used to come to their conclusions. (which btw is something her political rivals would usually be demanding her head on a spike for as it would normally be considered political interference in an independent authority but as the Scots Tories & Labour have made such a song and dance about all of this being ScotGov's fault and how it was up to them to fix it they can't very well now start condemning what they've been demanding).

If you look beyond the screaming headlines of all of this the reality is schools across the UK fiddled the numbers and exaggerated their estimates on expected grades, the qualification authorities in each country corrected that fiddle but done it in a unfair way which also downgraded the results of individuals who were likely to have a higher pass grade. Also worth noting that in England and Wales there was a 40% downgrading of results and there is NO process for pupils to appeal against the decision while in Scotland there was a 26% downgrading but every pupil has the right to an appeal and get the grade overturned.

The absolute nonsensical and telling thing about the insane shrieking by the Scottish Tories, Scottish Labour and the UK press in all of this is that NOT ONE OF THEM are blaming the UK (Tory run) or the Welsh (Labour run) governments for these downgraded exam results yet are lambasting the Scottish government for it even though it has nothing whatsoever to do with any government! And even if it did there were less pupils downgraded in Scotland, there is an appeals process open to pupils in Scotland which doesn't even exist for pupils in England and Wales and the Scottish government are the only government who are stepping in to change the flawed system used by their country's qualification authority.

The reporting of Scottish issues, not just by the press in Scotland but the rest in the UK, is getting so fucking skewed and devoid of facts it's getting ridiculous. Think the BritNats may be getting worried about something, wonder whit that could be! :unsure:
100% correct Shadow2! ๐Ÿ‘
 
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