It's time to re-align - Football club first, business second, not the reverse

johnjj004

Well-known member
Its certainly time to do the basics,i had already mentioned despite our good start and was losing it earlier today talking with friends that to be at this stage with 5 bona fide defenders is an absolute joke. 1 lb,1 rb,3 chs,bitton can do a cover job and does it well when called upon but is a midfielder,ajer covers rb when hatems out which then leaves us with 2 chs and no proper lb cover.Did the management not get the memo that we were losing 3 right backs and the one that was staying was the 4 th choice,boyata,benkovich,compper and only 1 centre half in.We knew these players were leaving,only one we didnt know about was kt,this should have all been covered as priority this pre season.Clearly the manager isnt going to play hendry or ralston and you would believe hes passed that on to peter lawell,either move them on or get them out on loan and make space for new recruits,we havent managed either yet.
 

Niall J

Well-known member
Its certainly time to do the basics,i had already mentioned despite our good start and was losing it earlier today talking with friends that to be at this stage with 5 bona fide defenders is an absolute joke. 1 lb,1 rb,3 chs,bitton can do a cover job and does it well when called upon but is a midfielder,ajer covers rb when hatems out which then leaves us with 2 chs and no proper lb cover.Did the management not get the memo that we were losing 3 right backs and the one that was staying was the 4 th choice,boyata,benkovich,compper and only 1 centre half in.We knew these players were leaving,only one we didnt know about was kt,this should have all been covered as priority this pre season.Clearly the manager isnt going to play hendry or ralston and you would believe hes passed that on to peter lawell,either move them on or get them out on loan and make space for new recruits,we havent managed either yet.
With you. In terms of the actual football and everything else aside, It's the defensive situation that is really concerning me now. We simply don't have the depth needed imo to last out a season.
 

Millsy

Well-known member
''Football first ...'' Good luck trying to sell THAT to this Celtic Board . Business , the bottom line is King !
That has been amply demonstrated , particularly in the last two Summer transfer windows .

We , the supporters , can see the deficiencies in the team ,we are not mugs ( except when it comes to continually handing over money) but we also realise the need for financial prudence so that we do not add to the number of Zombie -Tribute clubs in the League .
We are not asking , and have not asked for the World - only that the Board share our ambition to improve , not just in Scotland but to at least make a show of progressing in Europe . That is a faint hope with the attitude of the present Celtic Boardroom .

HH
 

johnjj004

Well-known member
With you. In terms of the actual football and everything else aside, It's the defensive situation that is really concerning me now. We simply don't have the depth needed imo to last out a season.
We play what,55-60 games a season,the players have to be signed,we know it ,the managers knows it,the board must know it,why piss about in the manner we have when at the end of the day it has to happen.If not then let peter lawell come out and tell us why he thinks 5 defenders is ok to be going on with
 

Niall J

Well-known member
''Football first ...'' Good luck trying to sell THAT to this Celtic Board . Business , the bottom line is King !
That has been amply demonstrated , particularly in the last two Summer transfer windows .

We , the supporters , can see the deficiencies in the team ,we are not mugs ( except when it comes to continually handing over money) but we also realise the need for financial prudence so that we do not add to the number of Zombie -Tribute clubs in the League .
We are not asking , and have not asked for the World - only that the Board share our ambition to improve , not just in Scotland but to at least make a show of progressing in Europe . That is a faint hope with the attitude of the present Celtic Boardroom .

HH
I'm hoping the Green Brigade will spell it out. In huge letters.
 

Niall J

Well-known member
We play what,55-60 games a season,the players have to be signed,we know it ,the managers knows it,the board must know it,why piss about in the manner we have when at the end of the day it has to happen.If not then let peter lawell come out and tell us why he thinks 5 defenders is ok to be going on with
If there is good reson for it then explain it to us. We're all big Bhoys. Speak to the fans and explain. We only see or hear when a manager is sacked or hired.
 

Andybhoy88

Well-known member
Interesting read as always Niall but several things in this article jumped out at me that I just can't let slip by without being addressed.

Firstly you've all but let Lenny of the hook for last night's debacle, aye there's a little criticism of Lenny in there but not nearly enough considering his culpability for that horror show and even though you address the Calmac at LB issue and the impact it had on our midfield you hint at the fact that he actually played ok there? I'm sorry mate but he just didn't he was awful and seemed so confused about what his role was that he ended up caught in a no man's land between LB and LW ......I mean he was so bad at it that I came on here after the game convinced we had just played that game with a back 3 ffs :LOL: For all those greeting about Boli's performances and that he's a wing back and not a left back well at least he was one of the two because Calmac was neither last night!

Not only did that decision all but surrender the central midfield to Cluj but it surrendered the left flank too and along with his failure to recognise this and revert to a back 4 as well as his bewildering team selection (£10m worth of defenders sitting on the bench) and substitutions Lenny shat the bed big time last night. Your bang on the money about Broony's poor performance being directly related to the loss of his central midfield partner in favour of Ntcham and this is yet another mistake, on a par with Calmac at LB, that's been repeated. I mean why ffs? Just like Calmac at LB we've seen that Broony/Ntcham horror movie before and it didn't work then either so why the fuck are we making sequels?

As for all the stuff about Lawell and the board well as much as I agree with pretty much every word of it I and others have been saying this for years and have been shouted down as 'negative' for doing so. Jeez have a look back at old comments on the Celtic blog from years gone by and you'll see I and others saying this exact thing.

Apologise if this comes across as a bit of a rant in your direction mate, I can assure you that's not how it's meant, it's just frustration at last night's debacle and seeing what I and others have been saying for years finally hitting home only after the damage has been done yet again!

HH Niall (y)
 

Theverdict1

Well-known member
No matter how good we look going forward and how many goals we score , the defence is always going to be our undoing. Until we sort that this is our lot. Being gubbed by teams who are half decent.

Let’s not forget AIK are good and with our defence if it’s not improved who would be surprised if we fucked that up too?

I wouldn’t. The defence as a unit are totally inept against anybody over 5’8 and a decent touch, and when they aren’t that good we give them a handout.

Farcical and with getting our wares handed to us yet again, new players who can improve us cost money,

The two Killie boys look the only option the board will go for. We can’t eat into the dividend or Lawelks obscene bonus.
 

Cairnsybhoy79

Well-known member
Its certainly time to do the basics,i had already mentioned despite our good start and was losing it earlier today talking with friends that to be at this stage with 5 bona fide defenders is an absolute joke. 1 lb,1 rb,3 chs,bitton can do a cover job and does it well when called upon but is a midfielder,ajer covers rb when hatems out which then leaves us with 2 chs and no proper lb cover.Did the management not get the memo that we were losing 3 right backs and the one that was staying was the 4 th choice,boyata,benkovich,compper and only 1 centre half in.We knew these players were leaving,only one we didnt know about was kt,this should have all been covered as priority this pre season.Clearly the manager isnt going to play hendry or ralston and you would believe hes passed that on to peter lawell,either move them on or get them out on loan and make space for new recruits,we havent managed either yet.
We all like how the clubs run as a business its a good model but we cant just drift thru like previous years amd expect to win leaugue or qualify for groups we need to spend some proper money amd that will keep us on a good fooring going forward the fans are getting rite fucking jumpy mr lawwel get the bank book out or u shud go to arsenal aswell HH
 

Lmcbhoy

Well-known member
We don't succeed as a football club if we don't adopt fundamental business principles. Ask Leeds, Coventry, Bury, and even the Huns. There is a balance but you can't just say let's go and spend you have to plan.
I think the close of this window will tell us if the ten is on!!
HH
 

Niall J

Well-known member
Interesting read as always Niall but several things in this article jumped out at me that I just can't let slip by without being addressed.

Firstly you've all but let Lenny of the hook for last night's debacle, aye there's a little criticism of Lenny in there but not nearly enough considering his culpability for that horror show and even though you address the Calmac at LB issue and the impact it had on our midfield you hint at the fact that he actually played ok there? I'm sorry mate but he just didn't he was awful and seemed so confused about what his role was that he ended up caught in a no man's land between LB and LW ......I mean he was so bad at it that I came on here after the game convinced we had just played that game with a back 3 ffs :LOL: For all those greeting about Boli's performances and that he's a wing back and not a left back well at least he was one of the two because Calmac was neither last night!

Not only did that decision all but surrender the central midfield to Cluj but it surrendered the left flank too and along with his failure to recognise this and revert to a back 4 as well as his bewildering team selection (£10m worth of defenders sitting on the bench) and substitutions Lenny shat the bed big time last night. Your bang on the money about Broony's poor performance being directly related to the loss of his central midfield partner in favour of Ntcham and this is yet another mistake, on a par with Calmac at LB, that's been repeated. I mean why ffs? Just like Calmac at LB we've seen that Broony/Ntcham horror movie before and it didn't work then either so why the fuck are we making sequels?

As for all the stuff about Lawell and the board well as much as I agree with pretty much every word of it I and others have been saying this for years and have been shouted down as 'negative' for doing so. Jeez have a look back at old comments on the Celtic blog from years gone by and you'll see I and others saying this exact thing.

Apologise if this comes across as a bit of a rant in your direction mate, I can assure you that's not how it's meant, it's just frustration at last night's debacle and seeing what I and others have been saying for years finally hitting home only after the damage has been done yet again!

HH Niall (y)
Alright Andy. Thanks for taking the time to read it and comment too. I'll be honest If I'd got everything off my chest it would have been a book not an article. I'm just scunnered as we all are. I actually started to write it post match but decided to sleep on it in case it was a full on rant. I did actually think Callum did fine at left back but it was a ludicrous decision to remove your best technician to accommodate a lesser one. I also have concerns how Boli's confidence will be rocked now, much like Jullien's in fact. I also felt attacking wise we were excellent but I would have concerns just how open tactically we were for a European encounter where we actually held the upper hand at kick off, like you said we pretty much surrendered the midfield. I wasn't absolving Lennon or the players of blame though I just felt going all in after a good start to the season so far would be a bit much and I also felt the start of the second half warranted some leeway. That was my thinking as I wrote it anyway.

As for the Ntcham expirement. It is like some sort of groundhog day. I should have added in a bit about Kennedy being aware of the Ntcham and McGregor experiments and that he should have spoke up and if he did he should have been listened to.

The board situation frustrates me like you. If there is a good reason bar shareholder profits for not speculating in the transfer market then come out and tell us. We don't expect a 40 million summer but some form of communication with the fans is long overdue. The balance beween profit and team on park is concerning. I also want a structure with a DOF that puts Lawwell in a financial box and a buffer between him and Lennon. It's long overdue.

There are a ton of reasons for last night to isolate one on it's own would possibly be harsh but some have been culpable and a lot less deserving now of patience than others.

HH Andy (y)
 

Cairnsybhoy79

Well-known member
Even an off form left backs better than none wee man was all over the place and hes million times better than ntcham in his normal midfield role the whole decision was stupid as much as the board are tight cunts lenny picked that team last nite now boli's gonny be at rock bottom way confidence aswell its a total balls up canny believe it they had plenty of time to buy defenders and theres been a massive failure to rebuild our team got too comfy coasting leagues its time to fix it celtic HH
 

Andybhoy88

Well-known member
Alright Andy. Thanks for taking the time to read it and comment too. I'll be honest If I'd got everything off my chest it would have been a book not an article. I'm just scunnered as we all are. I actually started to write it post match but decided to sleep on it in case it was a full on rant. I did actually think Callum did fine at left back but it was a ludicrous decision to remove your best technician to accommodate a lesser one. I also have concerns how Boli's confidence will be rocked now, much like Jullien's in fact. I also felt attacking wise we were excellent but I would have concerns just how open tactically we were for a European encounter where we actually held the upper hand at kick off, like you said we pretty much surrendered the midfield. I wasn't absolving Lennon or the players of blame though I just felt going all in after a good start to the season so far would be a bit much and I also felt the start of the second half warranted some leeway. That was my thinking as I wrote it anyway.

As for the Ntcham expirement. It is like some sort of groundhog day. I should have added in a bit about Kennedy being aware of the Ntcham and McGregor experiments and that he should have spoke up and if he did he should have been listened to.

The board situation frustrates me like you. If there is a good reason bar shareholder profits for not speculating in the transfer market then come out and tell us. We don't expect a 40 million summer but some form of communication with the fans is long overdue. The balance beween profit and team on park is concerning. I also want a structure with a DOF that puts Lawwell in a financial box and a buffer between him and Lennon. It's long overdue.

There are a ton of reasons for last night to isolate one on it's own would possibly be harsh but some have been culpable and a lot less deserving now of patience than others.

HH Andy (y)
No thanks required mate your articles are always a good read whether I agree with what's being said or not. It's also good to get a different perspective to bounce our own thoughts off of as none of us should think our own opinions are the only valid opinions so more power to you for putting your articles out there for us to debate.

On the issue of CalMac's performance at LB we're just gonnae have to agree to disagree there, he just looked lost out there from what I could see and while I do think you mostly let Lenny off the hook I suppose I can understand why you've chosen to hold back there.

It's no secret on here that Lenny wasn't my preferred choice as manager (mainly for the reasons shown last night, questionable tactical awareness as well as Lawell's ability to manipulate situations with Lenny in place) but I chose to give him my full backing and even after that clusterfuck of epic proportions last night he still has it but he HAS to be called out when necessary and this is one of those times. I think what scunners me most is that like you say Lenny and the bhoys have had a good start to the season both domestically and in the qualifiers and instead of sticking to what they had been doing Lenny inexplicably decides to tear it all up and offer up that dug's dinner instead! I mean WTF :confused:?

I agree second 45 (middle to front) we started well, like I said on here after the game, some of the most ruthless and clinical attacking play from us that I've seen in a long long time unfortunately it was coupled with some of the most inept defending I've seen in a long time too and it was all so avoidable and unnecessary.

With regards to the Lawell/board situation it's not even solely about the levels of investment it's about their constant failure to prepare no matter how many times they see this same mess play out! Every single year they gamble with CL qualification by failing to equip managers with what they need to give them the best chance of qualification and no matter how many times this comes back to bite them they keep repeating this deeply flawed 'strategy'. Tells you enough when our head scout is some random filling in for the summer. Initially I thought they'd finally came to their senses this season with the earlyish arrivals of Julien, Boli and Elhamed but instead of kicking on from there they once again reverted to type and thought they'd done enough. Just the same old same old.

The fundamental problem with Lawell and this board is they act like the football operation is a thorn in their sides instead of recognising it for what it is......THE cornerstone of the WHOLE operation!

HH Niall (y)
 
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Niall J

Well-known member
No thanks required mate your articles are always a good read whether I agree with what's being said or not. It's also good to get a different perspective to bounce our own thoughts off of as none of us should think our own opinions are the only valid opinions so more power to you for putting your articles out there for us to debate.

On the issue of CalMac's performance at LB we're just gonnae have to agree to disagree there, he just looked lost out there from what I could see and while I do think you mostly let Lenny off the hook I suppose I can understand why you've chosen to hold back there.

It's no secret on here that Lenny wasn't my preferred choice as manager (mainly for the reasons shown last night, questionable tactical awareness as well as Lawell's ability to manipulate situations with Lenny in place) but I chose to give him my full backing and even after that clusterfuck of epic proportions last night he still has it but he HAS to be called out when necessary and this is one of those times. I think what scunners me most is that like you say Lenny and the bhoys have had a good start to the season both domestically and in the qualifiers and instead of sticking to what they had been doing Lenny inexplicably decides to tear it all up and offer up that dug's dinner instead! I mean WTF :confused:?

I agree second 45 (middle to front) we started well, like I said on here after the game, some of the most ruthless and clinical attacking play from us that I've seen in a long long time unfortunately it was coupled with some of the most inept defending I've seen in a long time too and it was all so avoidable and unnecessary.

With regards to the Lawell/board situation it's not even solely about the levels of investment it's about their constant failure to prepare no matter how many times they see this same mess play out! Every single year they gamble with CL qualification by failing to equip managers with what they need to give them the best chance of qualification and no matter how many times this comes back to bite them they keep repeating this deeply flawed 'strategy'. Tells you enough when our head scout is some random filling in for the summer. Initially I thought they'd finally came to their senses this season with the earlyish arrivals of Julien, Boli and Elhamed but instead of kicking on from there they once again reverted to type and thought they'd done enough. Just the same old same old.

The fundamental problem with Lawell and this board is they act like the football operation is a thorn in their sides instead of recognising it for what it is......THE cornerstone of the WHOLE operation!

HH Niall (y)
Thanks Andy much appreciated. Read that reply like the nodding dog from the Churchill adverts. Can't disagree at all in particular Lenny changing it when we were beginning to settle the side down. Chopping and changing back fours should be avoided, for whatever reason we've been unable to settle one until last night and we chose not to. Incredibly frustrating.
Talking of planning you seen this yet. If you haven't I'm sorry to draw your attention but i'm raging again so I'll share that rage with you. Apologies in advance, make sure the cat I out of kicking range. WC put it up on another thread.
http://celticunderground.net/you-reap-what-you-sow/
 

JimMc

Well-known member
We have no defensive midfield, so its all or nothing attack or defend around our box and has been this way for seasons now. Most of the time no ones cares much as we get away with it in the comparatively low standard SPFL.
BR was eventually not blind to it and wanted McGinn, just hope Lenny knows the flaw we have or sees it soon or gets banned to the stands where he last claimed he saw things he missed pitch-side.
Ntcham is not the answer not only does he not really want to be here, he is too casual laid back and unreliable for a genuine terrier defensive midfield.

Anyone who thinks that we have a capable defensive midfield, then watch next game against any half decent tactical side who will know they can put 2 or even 3 on Broony in midfield, no team does that unless they spot a real flaw. even sevco spotted it and nulled our game
just put 2 of their rats on Broony, freed the wings for attack

Take a look at the 3 -3 equalizer, hard to watch an aging Broony who is playing as a totally isolated sweeper trying to cover both sides of the pitch,
from 1.45 get ready to pause it and watch how we have no second line of defense, no midfield bar broony.
and witness the all too often casual Ntcham strolling around covering no one and nothing in his own time.
pause at 1.47 and witness the Broony line on his own.

Our defense is not the main problem it is midfield, we have just Broony plus around 9 attacking midfielders. RC is superb and does hassle but he'd be wasted in that role and lets not kid ourselves calmac has the steel nastiness needed, again he'd be wasted in that role.
 
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michael duffy

Well-known member
we have no defensive midfield, so its all or nothing attack or defend around our box and has been this way for seasons now. Most of the time no ones cares much as we get away with it in the comparatively low standard SPFL.
BR was eventually not blind to it and wanted McGinn, just hope Lenny knows the flaw we have or sees it soon or gets banned to the stands where he last claimed he saw things he missed pitch-side.
Ntcham is not the answer not only does he not really want to be here, he is too casual laid back and unreliable for a genuine terrier defensive midfield.

Anyone who thinks that we have a defensive midfield, watch next game against half decent tactical side who will know they can put 2 or even 3 on Broony in midfield, no team does that unless they spot a real flaw. Sevco spotted it and nulled our game.

Take a look at the 3 -3 equalizer, hard to watch an aging Broony who is playing as a totally isolated sweeper trying to cover both sides of the pitch,
from 1.45 get ready to pause it and watch how we have no second line of defense, no midfield bar broony.
and witness the all too often casual Ntcham strolling around covering no one and nothing in his own time.

Our defense is not the main problem it is midfield, we have must Broony plus around 9 attacking midfielders.
and maybe our best midfield "technician" not playing at left back Jim! HH
 

Niall J

Well-known member
we have no defensive midfield, so its all or nothing attack or defend around our box and has been this way for seasons now. Most of the time no ones cares much as we get away with it in the comparatively low standard SPFL.
BR was eventually not blind to it and wanted McGinn, just hope Lenny knows the flaw we have or sees it soon or gets banned to the stands where he last claimed he saw things he missed pitch-side.
Ntcham is not the answer not only does he not really want to be here, he is too casual laid back and unreliable for a genuine terrier defensive midfield.

Anyone who thinks that we have a defensive midfield, watch next game against half decent tactical side who will know they can put 2 or even 3 on Broony in midfield, no team does that unless they spot a real flaw. Sevco spotted it and nulled our game.

Take a look at the 3 -3 equalizer, hard to watch an aging Broony who is playing as a totally isolated sweeper trying to cover both sides of the pitch,
from 1.45 get ready to pause it and watch how we have no second line of defense, no midfield bar broony.
and witness the all too often casual Ntcham strolling around covering no one and nothing in his own time.

Our defense is not the main problem it is midfield, we have must Broony plus around 9 attacking midfielders.
Take a look at the 3 -3 equalizer, hard to watch an aging Broony who is playing as a totally isolated sweeper trying to cover both sides of the pitch,
from 1.45 get ready to pause it and watch how we have no second line of defense, no midfield bar broony.

That was actually painful to watch. Considering we're defending a 3-2 lead at the time it's a real lack of discipline.
 

Andybhoy88

Well-known member
Thanks Andy much appreciated. Read that reply like the nodding dog from the Churchill adverts. Can't disagree at all in particular Lenny changing it when we were beginning to settle the side down. Chopping and changing back fours should be avoided, for whatever reason we've been unable to settle one until last night and we chose not to. Incredibly frustrating.
Talking of planning you seen this yet. If you haven't I'm sorry to draw your attention but i'm raging again so I'll share that rage with you. Apologies in advance, make sure the cat I out of kicking range. WC put it up on another thread.
http://celticunderground.net/you-reap-what-you-sow/
Seriously WTF! Is this genuine?
 
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