Lee Congerton Celtic Scout system

JimMc

JimMc

Well-known member
Don't even know where to start with this person.
Apart from the obvious that he appears to have left an overall negative record of his previous clubs, where he brought along his shiny data driven scouting system.

Once this window has shut, fans and shareholders need to find out who employed this man and on what record.
PL was quoted on appointment as saying “Lee was the outstanding candidate for this position and we are sure he will deliver real impact and benefit to the club."

Did anyone at Celtic even google the many negative reviews of this man, not just at Sunderland.

I want to support anyone at Celtic, but seriously think this guy as someone else has said here is a charlatan.

Congertons scouting system story and specifically his supposed data driven analytical scouting player performance system, reminds me of the 'Emperors new clothes'.
A system so genius only he can understand it, those suckered in are soon nervous but clapping away their doubts as they don't want to look like fools.
 
No read to much aboot the guy n no sure of his back ground. But if he relies on stats to pick players he basically playing football manager n we can all dae that. Whit happened to havin the likes ae David Hay etc talent spotting buying a player for x position. Watching players in action and speaking to people who know them, priceless. Moravcik anyone.
 
berniebhoy said:
No read to much aboot the guy n no sure of his back ground. But if he relies on stats to pick players he basically playing football manager n we can all dae that. Whit happened to havin the likes ae David Hay etc talent spotting buying a player for x position. Watching players in action and speaking to people who know them, priceless. Moravcik anyone.
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You might know all there is to know according to this review from a Sunderland fan.

"Congerton never seemed to launch himself at the paying public of Sunderland. There was no ballyhoo, no presentation of his big idea. But he did do a couple of interviews with the BBC. In one shot he can be seen deep in concentration, scrutinising some ‘stats’ on a computer. They look like the sort of ‘stats’ you and I just couldn’t understand. It looks like some vast database of immense complexity, beyond the grasp of us uneducated luddites.

In fact it was something like Scout 7, that's what the shot looks like - or it was something similar anyway – an off the shelf database resembling Championship Manager but with real, scouted data."

Congerton - Flawed Or Fraud?
 
Noah Billy said:
FFS.....go on the Google and see what Brendan Rodgers had to say about Congerton "The reason I brought him in" "He's the guy who found me Coutinho" etc. The board are guilty of all sorts of shit, parsimony, business before sport- but Congerton is down to the manager, or he was at the very least complicit.
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Yeah Congerton worked with Rodgers at Chelsea, so they have a long standing relationship. His time at Hamburg and Sunderland apparently leaves a lot to be desired, but it’s hard to assess if he’s done anything since he’s been here. As I understand it we’ve been looking at Benkovic for a while, so if we do sign him tonight his identification could pre date Congerton’s arrival. Bain, Hendry, Morgan and Mulumbu were playing in Scotland, so presumably Rodgers could pass his own judgment on them. Arzani came from Man City, so it’s unlikly we had to do much scouting there. Not sure how Edouard was scouted, so he could be from Congerton, and there’s apparently evidence Compper was scouted by him in his time in Germany.
I think anyone else signed by Rodgers came in before Congerton arrived, so it’s potentially one good signing and one bad. Who have we avoided signing? That’s part of the question too, are we missing out on potential stars, or avoiding potential donkeys? How long does a new scouting set up take to get going? John Park apparently had some big successes, but how long had he been at the club before they arrived?
 
I tend to agree with most of u guys! this guy needs to take his stats and scouting system and stick them where the sun don’t shine! If he is the one that has identified the signings so far by BR mibees BR wants to have a rethink I personally don’t think his signings have been great ones
Time to get back to scouts going and actually watching players rather than playing “football manager” (stole from bernibhoy) ?
 
Noah Billy said:
FFS.....go on the Google and see what Brendan Rodgers had to say about Congerton "The reason I brought him in" "He's the guy who found me Coutinho" etc. The board are guilty of all sorts of shit, parsimony, business before sport- but Congerton is down to the manager, or he was at the very least complicit.
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Sure I know of the previous and ancient Chelsea links and the quotes.

But Coutinho was 14 at the time of recommendation, so either BR has forgotten that Congertons only stand out supposed spots were from his tour in South America looking for young players on the cheap for Chelsea (more likely someone in South America pointed them out to Congerton and he made it was all his genius and BR and others never questioned it).

I think you are right though, hence my post here saying that BR should not be in charge of the new scouting system. No disrespect to BR but no one is master of all trades.

But then many of our managers were happy for a while to publicly spout as PR the decisions made not by them but by PL and the PLC. So it would still be good to have it confirmed who's idea.
 
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Celtic fan interview with a Sunderland fan who still have nightmares about the ex semi-pro turned mystery scout Lee congerton

As for the one possible positive thought re possibly identified Cristiano Piccini and Fabian Schar

Any of us vaguely interested in Europe could have put them on a list just sitting art home watching sky and youtube weekend round up highlights and would have done for free.
Both of those are around 26 years old! are hardly unknown or unpolished gems, already playing for top clubs and both internationally recognized.
What a joke we have.

Assuming this was what BR wanted then while BR is a proven top coach and man manager, we are lucky to have, everyone has limits.
Celtic are a big club but in this new order we are a club that needs to unearth gems, not point out SPFL possible prospects like
Lee Hendry btw!!
or complete and utter jokes like Compper, who I with no scouting knowledge could and did see using google, when his name was mentioned that he had a recent injury.
Injury stats are easy to find online, did anyone even check them for free?
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/marvin-compper/verletzungen/spieler/9340

Forget anger at this farce, but we should remember that the fans and Celtic fan shareholders, we pay their wages.

I want the ex semi pro gone and replaced with a system that not only works but is transparent except for the spots which they keep up their sleeve and not talk about on the likes on Celtic TV like they did with John McGinn, as if he was our player signed and taken for granted.
Seems likely Aston Villa scout (& others no doubt) only have to watch our own Channel and news feeds for the best prospects in Scotland. How naïve in the extreme.
 
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Read today that old Celtic scout Andy Ritchie claiming that jock brown near messed up Paul Lambert signing for us.
Apparently even though jock brown had no formal or any other obvious qualifications what so ever to judge a player, he had to personally go see a player 3 times if costing over a million!

Some bad joke ideas going on now and then and a good reminder of how we need to keep an eye on our club.
Being reminded of some of the goings on back then, shifts me towards those who don't share the opinion that Fergus McCann deserves any statue, presumably McCann employed that joke character and gave him the authority that were beyond his ability and credibility!
 
It's worrying when players are also getting signed without anything to do with the manager. Arzani was shuttled in thanks to Lawells son with little or no say so from Brendan. Also listening to Paddy McCourt, he was signed when a pal of Dermot's gave him the heads up, Dermot fones Peter, next thing he's standing in front of Strachan! I would prefer the manager to be trusted with all signings youth and first team
 
How do we know that that the guy didn’t identify great players and Lawell just refused to get them?

I’m not saying that was the case, but nobody can say it wasn’t.

Does anybody really believe Rogers didn’t give Lawell a list? That this guy wasn’t involved in its content? Rogers was totally pissed off. He wasn’t pissed off with Congerton. We don’t know what this guy came up with. We do know that absolutely fuck all was done costing us a place in the CK and missing out on McGinn. If anybody is to be sacked, my vote would be Lawell. Because we don’t know what Congerton is doing doesn’t mean he us doing nothing.

I do know that Lawell did fuck all though. That’s a natter of public record.
 
Congerton was clearly brought in to please Brendan. I understand that Congleton is not under Brendans direct management but was a kind of balance between Board and Football Department.

I have been told that Brendan identifies what type of player he is looking for, then Congleton and his team come up with a list which Brendan approves(or not). This gives Celtic options in order of preference. These players are handed to the Commercial people who approach the target players club for permission to speak. This usually involves a negotiation on the transfer fee. Brendan is involved during the negotiation as it is his Budget. If a fee is agreed than the Commercial Department negotiate with the player and his agent on wages. Brendan then has the final say on the deal. if there is no deal then the process starts again with the next player on the list.

Now Paddy McCourt told a different story about how it was with Dermot Desmond who phoned Peter Lawwell and then he was signed. Unknown, to Paddy, I think there would be more consideration within scouting and Football Departments before he was signed. Paddy said that Strachan knew nothing about it. This is not how we were publically told how it worked.

Brendans complaints about how his targets weren't landed would seem to suggest that these players were within Budget but the deals weren't closed by the Commercial Team. However, there was probably an element of being gazumped by other clubs in his frustration.

Commper and some other signing give us cause for concern as our First team squad is now 33. It would seem that De Vries, Compper, Ralston, Bitton Allan and Benyu are unlikely to figure in the team at any time with Hazard, Gamboa, Kouassi, Arzani and Hayes unlikely to figure without significant injuries. This is a concern.
 
Apart from concerns re the quality of some of our recent signings the wages involved in keeping players who may never see a first team jersey frightening. Like most others here I know the square root of zilch about Lee Congerton , but had a great appreciation of Davy Hay , who fell foul of Fergus McCanns regime.
 
JimMc said:
Read today that old Celtic scout Andy Ritchie claiming that jock brown near messed up Paul Lambert signing for us.
Apparently even though jock brown had no formal or any other obvious qualifications what so ever to judge a player, he had to personally go see a player 3 times if costing over a million!

Some bad joke ideas going on now and then and a good reminder of how we need to keep an eye on our club.
Being reminded of some of the goings on back then, shifts me towards those who don't share the opinion that Fergus McCann deserves any statue, presumably McCann employed that joke character and gave him the authority that were beyond his ability and credibility!
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I’ve maybe read that article wrong but the way I understood it was that Wim went to Jock Brown and says “Andy Ritchie has identified Lambert at 1.2 million and I want him”... Jock says to Wim “if you want a player over a million you go watch him 3 times yourself first”

Aside from that... Fergus did get some things wrong (he was human after all) and I personally never saw much good in the Jock Brown situation.... maybe that deserves its own thread at some point
 
Speyside Lhad said:
I’ve maybe read that article wrong but the way I understood it was that Wim went to Jock Brown and says “Andy Ritchie has identified Lambert at 1.2 million and I want him”... Jock says to Wim “if you want a player over a million you go watch him 3 times yourself first”

Aside from that... Fergus did get some things wrong (he was human after all) and I personally never saw much good in the Jock Brown situation.... maybe that deserves its own thread at some point
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Think you're reading it right, unlike your wording, the link can be read both ways, I was tired at time of reading and probably looking for fault as never liked the idea of jock brown anywhere near Celtic let alone in a position of influence.
 
Bigbhoy said:
Congerton was clearly brought in to please Brendan. I understand that Congleton is not under Brendans direct management but was a kind of balance between Board and Football Department.

I have been told that Brendan identifies what type of player he is looking for, then Congleton and his team come up with a list which Brendan approves(or not). This gives Celtic options in order of preference. These players are handed to the Commercial people who approach the target players club for permission to speak. This usually involves a negotiation on the transfer fee. Brendan is involved during the negotiation as it is his Budget. If a fee is agreed than the Commercial Department negotiate with the player and his agent on wages. Brendan then has the final say on the deal. if there is no deal then the process starts again with the next player on the list.

Now Paddy McCourt told a different story about how it was with Dermot Desmond who phoned Peter Lawwell and then he was signed. Unknown, to Paddy, I think there would be more consideration within scouting and Football Departments before he was signed. Paddy said that Strachan knew nothing about it. This is not how we were publically told how it worked.

Brendans complaints about how his targets weren't landed would seem to suggest that these players were within Budget but the deals weren't closed by the Commercial Team. However, there was probably an element of being gazumped by other clubs in his frustration.

Commper and some other signing give us cause for concern as our First team squad is now 33. It would seem that De Vries, Compper, Ralston, Bitton Allan and Benyu are unlikely to figure in the team at any time with Hazard, Gamboa, Kouassi, Arzani and Hayes unlikely to figure without significant injuries. This is a concern.
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Its a major concern,thats a hell of a lot of wages for guys doing not a lot,of that list i would keep 2 or 3,were not at all proactive in terms of moving players on
 
Theverdict said:
How do we know that that the guy didn’t identify great players and Lawell just refused to get them?

I’m not saying that was the case, but nobody can say it wasn’t.

Does anybody really believe Rogers didn’t give Lawell a list? That this guy wasn’t involved in its content? Rogers was totally pissed off. He wasn’t pissed off with Congerton. We don’t know what this guy came up with. We do know that absolutely fuck all was done costing us a place in the CK and missing out on McGinn. If anybody is to be sacked, my vote would be Lawell. Because we don’t know what Congerton is doing doesn’t mean he us doing nothing.

I do know that Lawell did fuck all though. That’s a natter of public record.
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Fair points as it is true that we are kept in the dark and do not really know what Congerton does (he has a history of this mystery-man - read Sunderland fans concerns) at Celtic.
We should support and respect all Celtic employees (especially the majority who are employed on
just around a living wage) unless proven unworthy, but if we don't raise opinions and questions on the top earners and influencers and just assume all's well then at best we will be taken for granted at worst taken for a ride and will be paying for it, and history proves that time and time again in every business.

Maybe Congerton had suggested gems and was just ignored, I think unlikely but there is more going on here with Congerton than the lack of any gem signings plus the obvious duds like Compper and poss Hendry! and the 2 supposed missed summer signings mentioned above! Did we even need a scout for them or any SPFL player to be suggested?
The main concern is his track record in recent times which can be summarized as Negative. Read above links re Sunderland! that is not one or two fringe fans that is the consensus.

If as reported Congerton believes that scouting players it really all about data driven stats or even mostly about stats then we should be concerned where it is going.
Stinks of a scam in the early days of I.T. when the naïve paid ott for spouted nonsense and off the shelf systems.

Problem is Brendan is sometimes a loyal beyond sense guy as Lustig the liability proves!
I love Lustig and he was once a great player but for well over a year now he is either past it or being coached badly. BR does not see that when I believe most Celtic fans do.
Do we keep quiet and give Lustig continued benefit of the doubt, likewise Congerton has been here long enough now to see a trend.
 
JimMc said:
Fair points as it is true that we are kept in the dark and do not really know what Congerton does (he has a history of this mystery-man - read Sunderland fans concerns) at Celtic.
We should support and respect all Celtic employees (especially the majority who are employed on
just around a living wage) unless proven unworthy, but if we don't raise opinions and questions on the top earners and influencers and just assume all's well then at best we will be taken for granted at worst taken for a ride and will be paying for it, and history proves that time and time again in every business.

Maybe Congerton had suggested gems and was just ignored, I think unlikely but there is more going on here with Congerton than the lack of any gem signings plus the obvious duds like Compper and poss Hendry! and the 2 supposed missed summer signings mentioned above! Did we even need a scout for them or any SPFL player to be suggested?
The main concern is his track record in recent times which can be summarized as Negative. Read above links re Sunderland! that is not one or two fringe fans that is the consensus.

If as reported Congerton believes that scouting players it really all about data driven stats or even mostly about stats then we should be concerned where it is going.
Stinks of a scam in the early days of I.T. when the naïve paid ott for spouted nonsense and off the shelf systems.

Problem is Brendan is sometimes a loyal beyond sense guy as Lustig the liability proves!
I love Lustig and he was once a great player but for well over a year now he is either past it or being coached badly. BR does not see that when I believe most Celtic fans do.
Do we keep quiet and give Lustig continued benefit of the doubt, likewise Congerton has been here long enough now to see a trend.
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On Lustig. He is a solid defender but he has so much of the ball in our system that he needs alot more going forward that he can give us. He is always left in space, takes a touch and needs to pass it on. He can't drive forward or ping a pass. When your free guy is forced to always play backwards your makes him look bad. He doesn't fit the way we play anymore. Would still do a job for a team looking to sit in and break.
 
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