poppies, a very divisive subject

[michael duffy]

how many young catholic bhoys took the "shilling", young willie McBride,fought against " imperialism, or joined the "great adventure" of the first world war,fought against fascism in the second world war,how many joined up to escape poverty,to learn a trade,when other avenues were closed,no shipyard jobs, no foundry jobs, if you wanted to better yourself what was left,"join the army" see the world. learn a trade,make a man of yourself the adverts said, didn't tell ye about the dark side, northern Ireland, falklands, ye come home on leave and stand on the terracing at Celtic park. watching and supporting the team you've loved all your life,with a tear in your cos ye took the shilling,billy Connolly, god bless him. great celtic supporter, is/was proud of his time as a para in the t.a, doesn't lessen him as a a fan,does'nt lessen me as a fan,however I have never worn a poppy in my life, because I feel there is hypocrisy there,you wear one your a patriot.you don't your a traitor,i donate to Erskine,but the wearing of the poppy has been politicized,no longer,the first world war, the second world war,where my my uncle Charlie died in Nijmegen,i feel for all servicemen and women, but I hate with a passion the politicians who put our young men and women into these conflicts and hide in the shadows, letting our young people, take the bile and abuse, for their shortcomings, bless e'm all,bless e'm all,the long and the short and the tall!

 

[Micmac]

The armed forces are ultimately a tool of state repression, never be in any doubt of it. Many a miner could tell stories of the armed forces input during times of industrial unrest. I can respect peoples memory without paying into quasi politicalcrap. The workers united will never be defeated

 

[Spherical Planet]

That is a very poignant, thoughtful and fitting tribute, Michael.

It is the branding of the poppy which I find offensive, not necessarily the sentiment.

I don't resent the boys and girls who choose to provide service for their country; however - I would ask them to be sure that the service they are providing is legal, moral, and ethical.

My kin have lost kin and friend by the guns of British servicemen. Innocent people who did not bear arms mown down by ill-advised, poorly trained, but well equipped young men, who took life with impunity based on a false proposition by successive governments.

As Micmac points out.....there is no heroism in attacking your own people and there have been numerous examples of that over the years.

 

[Millsy]

You need only look at the recruiting policy of the British Army to see where they have always got their 'cannon fodder' . Hundreds of State schools are 'visited' each year by the Army recruiters to put into impressionable young minds the idea of joining up . The poorest areas , where job opportunities are fewest , receive most visits .
The poor join up - not for ideological reasons - but for a job .

By contrast , the private schools generally have a Cadet Corps , where the young aspiring Officer class are introduced to the important business of ordering their inferiors about . It was ever thus !

 

[JimMc]

not just Celtic fans refusing to conform
Why a WW2 Veteran no longer wears a poppy

 

[boab1916]

how many young catholic bhoys took the "shilling", young willie McBride,fought against " imperialism, or joined the "great adventure" of the first world war,fought against fascism in the second world war,how many joined up to escape poverty,to learn a trade,when other avenues were closed,no shipyard jobs, no foundry jobs, if you wanted to better yourself what was left,"join the army" see the world. learn a trade,make a man of yourself the adverts said, didn't tell ye about the dark side, northern Ireland, falklands, ye come home on leave and stand on the terracing at Celtic park. watching and supporting the team you've loved all your life,with a tear in your cos ye took the shilling,billy Connolly, god bless him. great celtic supporter, is/was proud of his time as a para in the t.a, doesn't lessen him as a a fan,does'nt lessen me as a fan,however I have never worn a poppy in my life, because I feel there is hypocrisy there,you wear one your a patriot.you don't your a traitor,i donate to Erskine,but the wearing of the poppy has been politicized,no longer,the first world war, the second world war,where my my uncle Charlie died in Nijmegen,i feel for all servicemen and women, but I hate with a passion the politicians who put our young men and women into these conflicts and hide in the shadows, letting our young people, take the bile and abuse, for their shortcomings, bless e'm all,bless e'm all,the long and the short and the tall! 24391434

https://www.theguardian.com/film/20...asgow-chile-coup-nae-pasaran?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[boab1916]

Since we are on about remembrance today.
"Kevin Gerard Barry was the first Irish republican to be executed by the British since the leaders of the Easter Rising. Barry was sentenced to death for his part in an Irish Volunteers operation which resulted in the deaths of three British soldiers"

 

[Maria]

My great grandad was conscripted but my grandad aged 15 lied sbout his age and said let my dad stay to look after my younger brothers and i’ll go.

15 years old and in war-zones

Whilst those that carry a birch to beat us with were hiding in the shipyards n bowling clubs trying to steal the women of those at war.

The peepul holding the birch have also stolen from soldiers whilst pretending to raise money for them.

No thanks. Fk them for i am Scots with Irish heritage the same Irish heritage they sought to quell in Scotland, the same Irish people they sought to starve and yet my grandad at 15 had to go fight for them.

Whilst they hid in the shipyards.

Take your birch and ram it right up yer sheisters

 

[boab1916]

how many young catholic bhoys took the "shilling", young willie McBride,fought against " imperialism, or joined the "great adventure" of the first world war,fought against fascism in the second world war,how many joined up to escape poverty,to learn a trade,when other avenues were closed,no shipyard jobs, no foundry jobs, if you wanted to better yourself what was left,"join the army" see the world. learn a trade,make a man of yourself the adverts said, didn't tell ye about the dark side, northern Ireland, falklands, ye come home on leave and stand on the terracing at Celtic park. watching and supporting the team you've loved all your life,with a tear in your cos ye took the shilling,billy Connolly, god bless him. great celtic supporter, is/was proud of his time as a para in the t.a, doesn't lessen him as a a fan,does'nt lessen me as a fan,however I have never worn a poppy in my life, because I feel there is hypocrisy there,you wear one your a patriot.you don't your a traitor,i donate to Erskine,but the wearing of the poppy has been politicized,no longer,the first world war, the second world war,where my my uncle Charlie died in Nijmegen,i feel for all servicemen and women, but I hate with a passion the politicians who put our young men and women into these conflicts and hide in the shadows, letting our young people, take the bile and abuse, for their shortcomings, bless e'm all,bless e'm all,the long and the short and the tall! 24391434

 

[The Deadner]

https://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/s...mes-mcclean-revealed-by-wife-erin-883853.html
Draw your own conclusions!

 

[Strummer]

I respect anybody's right to wear a poppy. Or not. Personally, I dont and never have. Principally cos my granddads who fought in WW2 (in fact Granda John fought in both, the cantankerous auld get!!) never wore them. They never talked abt their experiences either, even when as a wee boy I begged them.If its good enough for guys who saw the most horrible sights and experienced what they did, its good enough for me. But, and it is important: they fought for freedom. And that includes the freedom not to wear a poppy. Or to wear a poppy. On Sunday 11th I will shut my mouth for the 2 minutes. I hope we, as a travelling support observe the silence. Cos we will be slaughtered if we don't. And if, God forbid, some don't observe it they will deserve their arses booted. Because it's ignorant and because its an open goal to anyone out there who hates our club.

 

[Goldfinch67]

Strummer agree 110%. Celtic gave £10,000 today to Poppy Scotland and the statements that the British Army don't own the right to respect all those who died in conflict is 100% right. James Connelly, Celtic players who died in France - does not matter - we should respect their sacrifice. Celtic was founded for poor Irish Catholics who moved on mass to Scotland. Lets not those bastards in Ibrox detract from our own flesh and blood whether they fought the British in Ireland or fascism in France.

 

[dmac]

I was told that most veterans of WW1 wouldn't wear poppies because they were originally sold for the Earl Haig Fund and he was the General that sent most to their death out of the trenches as over the top as they called it. I have never worn a poppy never will but I respect the dead from the 2World wars . The so called other campaigns have always had an agenda about them and something for the politicians to gain.

 

[Maria]

Dmac. Im with you on this.

I think regardless of what anyone thinks or puts a negative slant on we remember those kids from the wars that never came home..... neither did their bodies not even for their ultimate sacrifice, i have shed many a tear for privately who wouldnt.

But govts have learned nothing or refuse.

Too much money involved so how can anyone tell me that these hypocrites give a shit about sacrifice, hardship, suffering and loss. In fact they make a mockery of it.

But there are some who wish to birch me for not wearing a poppy and all it stands for.

Like a fkn poppy will bring those kids back, like a fkn poppy is a fitting remembrance.

Why not think of the human aspect actual boys dying on the front. The poppy allows hypocrites who repeatedly want wars to distance themselves from the horrors in their bloody names.

I will reflect on fathers, sons, brothers, uncles, nephews not coming home and the heartbreaking loss of their families.

I will reflect that their sacrifice seen their families struggle to make ends meet and no govt to compensate for the loss.

I will reflect the wages earned by a catholic lost soul and the ability for a younger soul in that family would not see a lot of ends met.

I will think of Ireland and the obscene loss and horrific treatment of not even a war for centuries only about a sadistic bullying murderer who the world stood by and let it abuse starve and decimate my people.

Poppy can you see it doesnt match mustard?

Can you see the likeness to hitler his goals and every other war mongering nation in the world?

The poppy is the badge used by the most sadistic nation and i believe people have yet still to open their eyes.

 

[boab1916]

Harry Patch (In Memory Of)
I am the only one that got through
The others died where ever they fell
It was an ambush
They came up from all sides
Give your leaders each a gun and then let them fight it out themselves
I’ve seen devils coming up from the ground
I’ve seen hell upon this earth
The next will be chemical but they will never learn

 

[boab1916]

And of course and what its really all about is Us and Them, we provide our labour our sons and daughters so that they may prosper.

 

[1888]

Watch to the very end.

 

[Venceremos]

I don't wear one. I respect the men who died in that awful war a century ago. However i despise with a passion the politicians and monarchies on many sides who misled their own (working class of course) into believing they were fighting for freedom, when it was a continental trade and land carve up. I could go on all day, but I won't.

 

[Maria]

I don't wear one. I respect the men who died in that awful war a century ago. However i despise with a passion the politicians and monarchies on many sides who misled their own (working class of course) into believing they were fighting for freedom, when it was a continental trade and land carve up. I could go on all day, but I won't.

Short, sweet and very direct ?

 

[Richybhoy]

The men who came back from World War 1 were treated appallingly by the British state. Families up and down the country were ripped apart. Hundreds of thousands of children without fathers. No work, no welfare state and no universal healthcare. A land fit for heroes indeed. By the time World War Two ended the men and women who had won the war had decided that that they would not be treated the way their fathers were 25 years earlier. The Labour Party ( still socialist at that time) manifesto promised the welfare state and the NHS. The returning men and women voted by a landslide for the welfare state. That was their reward for defeating Hitler and it was also their legacy to us. We really do owe our improved health and living conditions to them. It really bothers me that the Tory party and Blairites lay wreaths at the cenotaph and wear poppies while trying destroy the things the people fought and died for. Paying homage to them while dismantling the NHS and welfare state. Bastards!
I don't wear a poppy. I might for the WW1 and WW2 veterans because of their legacy and the fact that most were conscripts.
The volunteers of the modern era I have no sympathy for.
I read something a while ago that said casualties in war have flipped around. 100 years ago 90% of casualties were military and 10% civilian.
By the end of the 20th century this figure had flipped. 90% civilian and 10% military casualties of war. Another reason for not wearing a poppy.
Hail Hail
Rich