Resolution 12 Merged with Larry's interview with Auldheid thread

green sprig

Well-known member
If it's another legal entity, an old dead club, then how can newco be held responsible in a legal context?
Silence is not an option any longer.

If company have something they want kept secret then they need to go.

The club is worth much more than the income it generates and if the board have shady secrets they need to go.

If they have no shady secrets then they should be pushing for clean game. Not expediency to keep corruption or shady secrets unrevealed.
Exactly TET and if Lawwell is found to have read the 5 way agreement he needs to resign immediately.

HH.
 
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Theverdict1

Well-known member
So, maybe seems a daft question again, but, what do the Res 12 group want? What can be done and how will this benefit Celtic today? Will we be compensated for the money we lost? Will we be awarded titles? Will anyone found to be at it get jailed? Will the SFA be censured for cheating and abetting criminal acts by FIFA? What will they do? How can Sevco be punished when the club who carried it out is dead?

Is it justice or revenge that motivates?
 

green sprig

Well-known member
So, maybe seems a daft question again, but, what do the Res 12 group want? What can be done and how will this benefit Celtic today? Will we be compensated for the money we lost? Will we be awarded titles? Will anyone found to be at it get jailed? Will the SFA be censured for cheating and abetting criminal acts by FIFA? What will they do? How can Sevco be punished when the club who carried it out is dead?

Is it justice or revenge that motivates?
Your question is not daft at all mate..
I would say the RES 12 Bhoys are looking for justice from the SFA because as we know it was the holding back of the licence which allowed sevco to compete in Europe and it was the SFA who held the licence back..
This licence was held back because the SFA knew sevco were not debt free when this licence had to be signed,,so the officer in charge of this procedure failed to do his job knowing that Celtic automatically take the place of sevco providing they are debt free which they were..
It was a fraudulent act committed by an office bearer of the SFA..
I think RES 12 want the SFA to hold their hands up to this crime,,this was a fraudulent act commited by the SFA..
As far as compensation is concerned I cant see this happening..
No titles will change hands,we would not be awarded any titles where we finished in second place..
Why would they not jail the SFA officer who committed this fraudulent act,,they jailed the great train robbers for 30 years for £3,000,000 this guy cost Celtic football club £20,000,000 by commiting a fraudulent act,if he had told the truth about sevco and their debt Celtic would automatically have leapfrogged sevco into Europe..
I think the only way sevco can be punished is for them to be told by EUFA they are a new club formed in 2012 and their first trophy success will be recorded if and when it happens..

HH.
 

Theverdict1

Well-known member
Your question is not daft at all mate..
I would say the RES 12 Bhoys are looking for justice from the SFA because as we know it was the holding back of the licence which allowed sevco to compete in Europe and it was the SFA who held the licence back..
This licence was held back because the SFA knew sevco were not debt free when this licence had to be signed,,so the officer in charge of this procedure failed to do his job knowing that Celtic automatically take the place of sevco providing they are debt free which they were..
It was a fraudulent act committed by an office bearer of the SFA..
I think RES 12 want the SFA to hold their hands up to this crime,,this was a fraudulent act commited by the SFA..
As far as compensation is concerned I cant see this happening..
No titles will change hands,we would not be awarded any titles where we finished in second place..
Why would they not jail the SFA officer who committed this fraudulent act,,they jailed the great train robbers for 30 years for £3,000,000 this guy cost Celtic football club £20,000,000 by commiting a fraudulent act,if he had told the truth about sevco and their debt Celtic would automatically have leapfrogged sevco into Europe..
I think the only way sevco can be punished is for them to be told by EUFA they are a new club formed in 2012 and their first trophy success will be recorded if and when it happens..

HH.
Cheers
 

Derry Bhoy

Active member
............................

These Bhoys aren’t for giving up.....I’m convinced there’s a plan in place with or without the help of the Celtic Board.....and when it all comes to pass.....the collateral damage to those involved who are guilty of committing fraud.....and those who have colluded in matters.....will be outed and pay the price.....that’s what I think
Is Lawell one of the guilty party ????
 

Derry Bhoy

Active member
Your question is not daft at all mate..
I would say the RES 12 Bhoys are looking for justice from the SFA because as we know it was the holding back of the licence which allowed sevco to compete in Europe and it was the SFA who held the licence back..
This licence was held back because the SFA knew sevco were not debt free when this licence had to be signed,,so the officer in charge of this procedure failed to do his job knowing that Celtic automatically take the place of sevco providing they are debt free which they were..
It was a fraudulent act committed by an office bearer of the SFA..
I think RES 12 want the SFA to hold their hands up to this crime,,this was a fraudulent act commited by the SFA..
As far as compensation is concerned I cant see this happening..
No titles will change hands,we would not be awarded any titles where we finished in second place..
Why would they not jail the SFA officer who committed this fraudulent act,,they jailed the great train robbers for 30 years for £3,000,000 this guy cost Celtic football club £20,000,000 by commiting a fraudulent act,if he had told the truth about sevco and their debt Celtic would automatically have leapfrogged sevco into Europe..
I think the only way sevco can be punished is for them to be told by EUFA they are a new club formed in 2012 and their first trophy success will be recorded if and when it happens..

HH.
Is Lawell one of the guilty gang ????
 

Imatim

Well-known member
Exactly TET and if Lawwell is found to have read the 5 way agreement he needs to resign immediately.

HH.
.............................

Plausible deniability.....Peter Lawwell said he hadn’t seen the secret 5 way agreement.....he didn’t say he didn’t know the content
 

Thai Tim

Well-known member
Are you serious ????.. Where can it go ????...
Lets start with the truth..
Shareholders and supporters have been fighting for years to get to the truth about RES 12.
For the last 7 years we have been told nothing other than what the board wanted us to know..
Bullshit and lies has been the diet fed to us from a man who told us he had spoken to EUFA about RES 12 on the morning of the last AGM and was conveniently told EUFA were no longer interested in RES 12 because it was more than 5 years ago..
The same man has also said to supporters and shareholders he has never seen the 5 Way Agreement Document,,this is the same man who never supports the people who keep the lights on at Parkhead,,he seems to forget,,,No supporters,,No football club..No CEO..

HH.
So it's just the truth we're after, nothing else?
 

Thai Tim

Well-known member
.....................

What do you think would be fair and reasonable?
The problem is Celtic FC (the board) have let this drag on too long and the cheating club that benefited from this have been liquidated, so no compensation likely. I would imagine criminal activity has taken place, so what I think would be fair and reasonable would be arrests and criminal charges, although making allegations that you have been robbed 8 years after the theft wouldn't go down to well in any court. The SFA should be severely censored, and anyone involved still working with the SFA should be sacked without compensation. It was good to see The Herald actually reporting on Res 12 but it's all a bit late in my opinion. If I was a major shareholder I would have put forward a vote of no confidence in the board years ago, I think the Res 12 activists tried to do that, I can't remember.

Slightly related, the transference of trophies from the old club to the new club should also be rigorously challenged by our board. There is nothing wrong with supporters of Sevco treating their new club as if it is the same club as the old club, that is up to them, but to have that delusion officially recognized by the SFA is blatant corruption and should have been fought much more rigorously. This set up where they can blame the old different club for previous misdemeanors whilst benefiting from being officially recognized as a continuation of the old club is a stain on Scottish football. The fact our board allowed this to happen is another reason to censor them for their meek resistance to the obvious corruption and their shameful complicity.
 

Imatim

Well-known member
The problem is Celtic FC (the board) have let this drag on too long and the cheating club that benefited from this have been liquidated, so no compensation likely. I would imagine criminal activity has taken place, so what I think would be fair and reasonable would be arrests and criminal charges, although making allegations that you have been robbed 8 years after the theft wouldn't go down to well in any court. The SFA should be severely censored, and anyone involved still working with the SFA should be sacked without compensation. It was good to see The Herald actually reporting on Res 12 but it's all a bit late in my opinion. If I was a major shareholder I would have put forward a vote of no confidence in the board years ago, I think the Res 12 activists tried to do that, I can't remember.

Slightly related, the transference of trophies from the old club to the new club should also be rigorously challenged by our board. There is nothing wrong with supporters of Sevco treating their new club as if it is the same club as the old club, that is up to them, but to have that delusion officially recognized by the SFA is blatant corruption and should have been fought much more rigorously. This set up where they can blame the old different club for previous misdemeanors whilst benefiting from being officially recognized as a continuation of the old club is a stain on Scottish football. The fact our board allowed this to happen is another reason to censor them for their meek resistance to the obvious corruption and their shameful complicity.
..............................

I understand the liquidation process hasn’t been finalised yet.....as to the timeframe in question.....I think it’s fair to say that it has taken a considerable amount of time to get to the bottom of matters with good reason.....as there has been little or no cooperation from those nefariously involved.....recent court proceedings produced damning evidence against parties involved which strongly suggests that fraud was committed.....that is now on public record.....all in all I believe the Court will take these and other pertinent matters in to consideration when this matter is finally presented to them.....and look favourably on the tenacity and perseverance of those seeking justice
 

Thai Tim

Well-known member
..............................

I understand the liquidation process hasn’t been finalised yet.....as to the timeframe in question.....I think it’s fair to say that it has taken a considerable amount of time to get to the bottom of matters with good reason.....as there has been little or no cooperation from those nefariously involved.....recent court proceedings produced damning evidence against parties involved which strongly suggests that fraud was committed.....that is now on public record.....all in all I believe the Court will take these and other pertinent matters in to consideration when this matter is finally presented to them.....and look favourably on the tenacity and perseverance of those seeking justice
Good points - I hope so.
 
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Imatim

Well-known member
Cut & Paste from Auldheid via CQN.


Here are the arguments put to the Celtic Board at the AGM for taking Resolution 12 away from the failed SFA Judicial Panel Protocol (which houses the disciplinary process) but Celtic voted down and were content to leave judgement with the SFA on questionable grounds the matter is between the SFA and another member club.

It isn’t , it is about the SFA . A professional accountants report being delivered by disrespected shareholders to Celtic spells this out and leaves Celtic with little piss to rip and no fizzy drink to serve back.

1. Was just an opening attempt at a joke at BRTH’s loquacious expense.

2. First of all, can I congratulate the board and the club as a whole in winning a record treble treble, for securing continued European Football in the new year and for delivering a set of business results which many businesses, let alone football clubs, would envy.

3. Regrettably, however, I stand before the board and my fellow shareholders with the unenviable task of reminding everyone within this room of a real and present danger to the value of this club in footballing and commercial terms.

4. As a Scottish Football Club, Celtic can only play football, market its footballing brand, its famous shirt, this iconic stadium and the whole club’s unique, unbroken and remarkable history – if it abides by the rules and regulations of the Scottish Football Association – a body which is a Governing body, a mandatory trade association, a legislative authority, a licensing authority, and which, when necessary oversees and administers a judicial function.

5. Without membership of a properly functioning SFA this club cannot -simply cannot – play or trade.

6. In 2013, shareholders came before the board and requested that certain matters be referred by the board to UEFA – of which Celtic is a valued and key member – and which body entrusted the granting of licences and the enforcement of their rules in Scotland to the SFA.

7. Our position was that the SFA had failed in its licensing and administrative function, had failed to properly oversee the licensing process, and was so compromised that the situation demanded a referral to another body – we recommended UEFA – and still do.

8. In response, the board said that our resolution was not necessary but expressed sympathy with the matters raised and advised that it shared our concerns. We were also told that the board were in correspondence with the SFA about these same issues and concerns.

9. After various meetings, it was agreed to adjourn the resolution to allow matters to be properly pursued with the SFA rather than with UEFA leading to jibes on social media that the resolution had been kicked into the long grass

10. Long grass could perhaps be better described as a jungle – and I can assure everyone here that the modern SFA would not enjoy any length of time in what was Celtic’s Jungle.

11. Six years on, after maintaining that there was nothing to see, that nothing had been done wrong, that there was nothing to report to UEFA, that even if there had been something wrong they could do nothing about it because of time bar, and for all sorts of other reasons that have since proven to be either inaccurate, misconceived or to be just plain rubbish, we now find that we are in a truly remarkable situation whereby;

(a) The SFA ignored and rejected this board’s call for a full independent legal inquiry into what occurred over a number of years within Scottish Football – which call was also made by SPFL CEO Neil Doncaster. Neither the SPFL nor Celtic seem to carry sufficient weight with the SFA in this regard.

(b) Instead the SFA wrote to all clubs in 2017 and advised that they would carry out their own internal inquiry into the UEFA licensing process followed in 2011/2012.

(c) As a result of that inquiry the SFA determined that they had uncovered sufficient evidence to bring disciplinary charges alleging breaches of both SFA and UEFA rules – this many years after we had claimed that there had been such breaches and after many years of telling us and Celtic that there was nothing to investigate.

(d) In June 2018, a formal judicial panel appointed by the SFA to consider the evidence and determine the charges, formally reported that – THE SFA WERE NOT THE COMPETENT LEGAL BODY TO CONDUCT ANY HEARINGS OR MAKE ANY RULINGS ON THE CHARGES CONCERNED OR THEIR SUBJECT MATTER – WHICH IS PRECISELY WHAT WE AS SHAREHOLDERS ASKED THIS BOARD TO RECOGNISE SOME SIX YEARS AGO!

(e) Unbelievably, it would appear that, according to the judicial panel, in relation to this matter and for the only time in its entire history, or in the history of UEFA, The SFA has by way of a secret written contract agreed that it cannot legally conduct hearings or enforce the implementation of its own rules or the rules of UEFA within its own jurisdiction thereby creating a fissure in its own judicial

(f) Not only that, the three corporate officers who implemented this process, Messrs Reagan, MacKInlay and McGlennan, must all have known that the SFA had entered into this contract which plainly says they cannot conduct the disciplinary process which they implemented.

(g) All three officers have now left the building, bolted out the door, leaving behind an administrative and judicial mess of farcical proportions.

(h) However, that was fully 18 months ago. In the interim period SFA officers told this board that that there was no reason not to implement the judicial panel ruling which said that the charges should go to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. THEY TOLD YOU THAT SO THAT YOU WOULD TELL US AND SO WE WOULD WAIT AND WAIT AND WAIT FOR ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS EVENTUALY POSED AT LAST AGM AND STILL NOT ANSWERED.

(i) The current position is that Iain Maxwell SFA CEO made a public statement in mid-June saying that the SFA would not let the issue go on for ever, that it would come back to the SFA board in the not-too-distant future and that going to CAS was still under consideration.

(j) The latter is completely different to what they said would happen last AGM and how far into a not too distant future is 5 months?

(k) We are not at all sure what signal this sends out to everyone involved in Scottish Football , what degree of confidence they can have in a Judicial process cracked by a clause in the no longer secret 5 Way Agreement.

(l) As the board know, we have instructed solicitors and indeed have consulted counsel about this farcical administration and all correspondence from our lawyers to the SFA over an 18 month period costing around £11K have met with no response, continued obfuscation and deliberate and calculated delay in giving any sensible or coherent explanation.

And yet this board maintains that the matter should be left in the hands of this wholly dysfunctional corporate body who have no idea what they are doing or what they are legally entitled to do.

SO I have to ask The Board – are you crazy?
 

Imatim

Well-known member
Further comments from Auldheid via CQN


AULDHEID on 7TH JANUARY 2020 4:17 AM
The argument to AGM then went on………

We know you have said that no other club or its directors want to take any interest in this or give support to any initiative which would see the judicial panel ruling implemented.

We have taken legal advice on this.

The SFA is a distinct and separate legal body.

It has a duty to its member clubs to implement its rules consistently, fairly and judicially.

All clubs trade on that basis.

It is against that background that they contract with their customers, arrange their finances, attract sponsorship and commercial support, and indeed in some cases offer their shares for sale on the stock market.

If the fundamental basis for applying the rules of football, the rules under which this club MUST trade – are not maintained – and more importantly are seen to be maintained – then all of that commercial and legal activity cannot be undertaking with safety.

So, we ask you to refer all of this to UEFA for the sake of the club both on and off the field.

To not do so, to continue your support for a wholly flawed process instigated by a legally and administratively flawed governing body amounts to a derogation of your corporate duty to us as shareholders.

Finally, in anticipation of you rejecting our plea, and anticipating your blind inexplicable continued support of a wholly useless Governing body, let me ask what this board will do if and when the SFA simply chose to bin the whole matter with a view to hiding their own corporate incompetence.

Will you undertake to refer this matter to UEFA at that point or will you look at Judicially reviewing the procedures and decisions of the SFA – SOMETHING THAT WE AS SHAREHOLDERS AND PART OWNERS OF THIS CLUB HAVE ALREADY STARTED TO EXAMINE JUST IN CASE YOU DON’T DO IT.

BUT IT SHOULD BE YOU WHO DO THAT

And finally will you explain, candidly and openly, to all shareholders, season ticket holders and every single fan by way of a club statement what your clear and unequivocal position is on these matters as soon as possible but by no later than MARCH 2020 prior to asking a single person to make any payment for a season ticket in respect of season 2020/2021 that they may purchase knowing The Board have complete confidence in an SFA whose judicial process is being operated with authority and without fear or favour?

Jock Stein once said football is nothing without fans is nothing.

THE EXECUTIVE OF THE SFA ALREADY TREAT FOOTBALL FANS WITH CONTEMPT AND THINK WE ARE DAFT AND CAN BE IGNORED.

PLEASE, FOR THE SAKE OF THE CLUB AND THE BUSINESS OF THE CLUB, DO NOT FALL INTO THE SAME TRAP.

WE WONT WEAR IT AND WILL HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE IF YOU DO.

HH – AND BEST OF LUCK NEIL.
 

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