surprise surprise

Anton

Well-known member
#81
Ah, some sanity coming back in to the thread.

Everyone, I respect your diverse opinions on Ireland, Britain, Palestine...wherever.
But, what does any of it have to do with football?

We don't all share the same opinions on the politics.
But, we do all share a love for Celtic FC.

Can't we just support the team?
Do we really need to sing songs about the IRA to celebrate our football club?
Do we need to sing songs about an uprising from 102 years ago to celebrate our football club?

To my mind, all it does is give 'them' (media, other clubs, SFA, SFPL, whoever) an excuse.
It lumps us in with disgraceful songs from other supports.

Please, all my fellow Celtic fans, just support the team on the field - the rest is just an unnecessary distraction.

Best wishes to you all.
This is a subject that can't be swept under the carpet any longer, it's the elephant in the room scenario within our support. Ignorance is no longer acceptable, it has to be confronted head on.

If one looks at the opinions within this thread alone, it would appear that the majority may feel that pro-IRA chants have no place within CP.

The Green Brigade do amazing work for the team, the support and, without them, the match day experience at CP would be akin to sitting in a morgue.

However, that does NOT give them the right to dictate to us what is acceptable and unacceptable to sing at our games; home or away.

Let's set up a few scenarios to get an objective view on the topic.

1: Those of us, within our support - and there are many - who have been affected
directly as a result of IRA action, set up our own 'Brigade' and denounce the singing of pro-IRA chants.

What kind if split would that create? Would the GB give a toss? No, they wouldn't, which is exactly why they are out of order in certain aspects of their 'support'.

2: Anti-Zionist Jews set up a 'Brigade' and protest against the Israeli government's actions yet they are all Israeli's and fly the fly the Israeli flag. Therefore, we have the Israeli flag flying side by side with the Palestinian one. Will the Green Brigade allow the flying of said flag without complaint?

Naw, they wouldn't. Why? Because you do as they say or you say feck all.

To those who support the Green Brigade with blind loyalty, to the GB themselves, I openly challenge you on how you operate.

The most ironic aspect of the GB behaviour is that it - at certain times and in certain instances - they are no better than the foulest Hun type behaviour imaginable. Bullying, sycophantic and devoid of democracy. All of what we are told they stand up against!

Once again, get our own house in order then we can tackle the Hun songbook without fear of looking ridiculous.

Any GB member who wishes to debate the matter with me in private is more than welcome to do so.

Also, I am willing to meet you all face to face to discuss the possibility of changing our songbook for the better.
 

Brimcbhoy

Active member
#82
I see Beaton was 'at it' again yesterday. The huns first 'goal' clearly offside. Moreles was already offside when he received the ball, then with 5 Sevco players and the Hearts goalie in the Penalty area he passes forward to Kent who puts it in.
Whats that Budgie and Leveine? You didnt see it cos you were singing the Billy Boys. Thought so.
 

boab1916

Well-known member
#83
What songs in particular do you think incite hatred for thats the stumbling block, for if we allow songs like Grace to be deemed political, sectaria.

let the people sing for example describes the right to sign about their music, their stories, their battle crys, and the native land.
What stories is it wanting them to express, my undertsanding would be the truth, what songs well obviously the hunger and oppression, what battle cries, well to me the battle was the procession from volunteers to a full blown army the IRA, and the native land Ireland.
Jeez, AB, there is nothing brave about me whatsoever. We just didn't know anything different to what we were living in ... it was normal to us.

Even if there is a United Ireland then it will only come about if dual nationality, indeed, British nationality is permanently/perpetually granted to those who want it. Not a problem as far as I'm concerned.

I am an Irish citizen as is confirmed on my passport. Others is their business, I don't feel a need to be bothered by it.

The major problem we have with the Israeli's, at the minute, is the unwavering US support - that is criminal in itself! No matter who has been in charge!

There are Jews who despise the Zionist (apartheid) policies of the Israeli government. When they and powerful, peaceful Arabs get together in numbers we shall have a start on the road to a peaceful settlement.

No other government will do it, it has to be them.

If it hadn't been for the likes John Hume and David Trimble - who effectively destroyed their own parties in the process - there would not be the 'fragile' peace we have today.

The flying of a flag at CP as an act of one-sided support may well be praiseworthy but it doesn't tell the whole story regarding those Jews within/outside Israel who disagree with their government's policies.

When we simplify everything to them and us there is no objectivity which, in turn, gives hope to no one!
The flying of a flag at CP as an act of one-sided support may well be praiseworthy but it doesn't tell the whole story regarding those Jews within/outside Israel who disagree with their government's policies.

"When we simplify everything to them and us there is no objectivity which, in turn, gives hope to no one!"


Anton outside CP that night Palestinians and Isrealies before kick off had no problem with each other and all understood the objective was to get out a message to the world that Celtic fans were aware of the Palestianian and stood with them in their struggles against occupation. The message got out to UEFA, but that was not a problem, for the message to UEFA with the fine and the doubling created a bigger charity that was not intended and the act reached a bigger audience and the message also reached the BDS, and was carried across all cities visited by figures who have a clearer message for the world and it is indeed to have a united Arab/Isreali state.

Sometimes an act of kindness and no matter how disorientated the act may come across can be picked up by the right people and ironed out to be presented in the form intended. Just my random thoughts and opinions in friendship HH.

Pink Floyd legend Roger Waters praises Celtic fans for Palestine flag display

Roger waters thanking Celtic fans
 

Anton

Well-known member
#84
What songs in particular do you think incite hatred for thats the stumbling block, for if we allow songs like Grace to be deemed political, sectaria.

let the people sing for example describes the right to sign about their music, their stories, their battle crys, and the native land.
What stories is it wanting them to express, my undertsanding would be the truth, what songs well obviously the hunger and oppression, what battle cries, well to me the battle was the procession from volunteers to a full blown army the IRA, and the native land Ireland.

The flying of a flag at CP as an act of one-sided support may well be praiseworthy but it doesn't tell the whole story regarding those Jews within/outside Israel who disagree with their government's policies.

"When we simplify everything to them and us there is no objectivity which, in turn, gives hope to no one!"


Anton outside CP that night Palestinians and Isrealies before kick off had no problem with each other and all understood the objective was to get out a message to the world that Celtic fans were aware of the Palestianian and stood with them in their struggles against occupation. The message got out to UEFA, but that was not a problem, for the message to UEFA with the fine and the doubling created a bigger charity that was not intended and the act reached a bigger audience and the message also reached the BDS, and was carried across all cities visited by figures who have a clearer message for the world and it is indeed to have a united Arab/Isreali state.

Sometimes an act of kindness and no matter how disorientated the act may come across can be picked up by the right people and ironed out to be presented in the form intended. Just my random thoughts and opinions in friendship HH.

Pink Floyd legend Roger Waters praises Celtic fans for Palestine flag display

Roger waters thanking Celtic fans
Grace & Let The People Sing are fine by me, Boab. Though the ultimate songbooks should be agreed by all, not just you or me - think that is basically what I'm trying to say.

There is a great video on YouTube of an Anti-Zionist (I've forgotten speaker and where it is but I'll try and find it).

In it, he - metaphorically speaking - slaughters a young Jew who cites the Holocaust as a reason to defend Israeli brutality of the Palestinian people.

His argument is that because "we did go through the Holocaust, that is exactly the reason why we should not inflict death on others".

Doubt you'll see too many from the GB emphasising that perspective which is what their main problem is,

They are inflicting their black and white viewpoint of world politics onto us.

They have no right to use CP as a vehicle for one-sided and non-objective directives then demand us to agree with everything they do/say.

The GB is a law unto itself.

That is never, in my opinion, acceptable from a Celtic supporters viewpoint. it is not who we are, it is not what we are about and it must be challenged as we drag them into the 21st Century.
 

boab1916

Well-known member
#85
Grace & Let The People Sing are fine by me, Boab. Though the ultimate songbooks should be agreed by all, not just you or me - think that is basically what I'm trying to say.

There is a great video on YouTube of an Anti-Zionist (I've forgotten speaker and where it is but I'll try and find it).

In it, he - metaphorically speaking - slaughters a young Jew who cites the Holocaust as a reason to defend Israeli brutality of the Palestinian people.

His argument is that because "we did go through the Holocaust, that is exactly the reason why we should not inflict death on others".

Doubt you'll see too many from the GB emphasising that perspective which is what their main problem is,

They are inflicting their black and white viewpoint of world politics onto us.

They have no right to use CP as a vehicle for one-sided and non-objective directives then demand us to agree with everything they do/say.

The GB is a law unto itself.

That is never, in my opinion, acceptable from a Celtic supporters viewpoint. it is not who we are, it is not what we are about and it must be challenged as we drag them into the 21st Century.
I know of the speaker and have seen his video he speaks of the pretence tears etc, his family were holocaust victims.He is not a Zionist he is a Jew and a believer in peace.
If i can find a way to get a vid i have regards Palestian i will try and get it up on youtube, you will be interested in it. HH and thanks for the reply.
 
#87
This is a subject we have discussed many times .this is my tuppence worth .

Due to the demise of the huns into Sevco and the continued revelation of corruption and complicity by the footballing authorities (SFA/SPFL) in favour of bussinesses ran out Ibrox ,combined with our growing strength and success, both on and off the park there is an existential threat to the so called " Football establishment" in this country. The "establishment " see this and realise they they are in a fight now which for the last few years they have been losing . they lose this fight the "Natural Order" will be lost forever .

It is an idealogical fight which we have already won outside of this country, which is why we are liked wherever we go and play and we have had awards for our fans etc . In this country the fight is not finished .To win here and smash the corrupt and sectarian "Football Establishment " so called natural order we need to be politically smart .
I love belting out my favourite rebel songs and living and celebrating my "celtic" DNA which I have every right to do .However there is a price to pay ,the pro "Football Establishment " press and corrupt SFA will spin this into us being anti social and racist . That is them being politically smart .
So for me the choice is do we get politically smart too and win this fight by limiting their ability to spin us in a bad light or do we say Fxxxx them , let them continue with the natural order as long as we can sing certain songs which they will use against us .
 

Maria

Well-known member
#89
So fair enough you don't like the discussion on politics and Irish history, yet you proceed to give your opinion on the same topic and ask the same questions previously asked??? I don't think there's one person commenting on here that doesn't support the team. By not talking about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There's no one arguing here, it's just differing opinions!

Exactly deadner. Sanity definitely declared. HH pal ☘️
 

boab1916

Well-known member
#90
Exactly deadner. Sanity definitely declared. HH pal ☘️
Put a wee vid up on a new thread for anyone interested in watching a bit of cheating and rigging and threating protocol from our friends at Hampden and other places of disrepute.
thread is :
The fix was always in.
 

Anton

Well-known member
#91
This is a subject we have discussed many times .this is my tuppence worth .

Due to the demise of the huns into Sevco and the continued revelation of corruption and complicity by the footballing authorities (SFA/SPFL) in favour of bussinesses ran out Ibrox ,combined with our growing strength and success, both on and off the park there is an existential threat to the so called " Football establishment" in this country. The "establishment " see this and realise they they are in a fight now which for the last few years they have been losing . they lose this fight the "Natural Order" will be lost forever .

It is an idealogical fight which we have already won outside of this country, which is why we are liked wherever we go and play and we have had awards for our fans etc . In this country the fight is not finished .To win here and smash the corrupt and sectarian "Football Establishment " so called natural order we need to be politically smart .
I love belting out my favourite rebel songs and living and celebrating my "celtic" DNA which I have every right to do .However there is a price to pay ,the pro "Football Establishment " press and corrupt SFA will spin this into us being anti social and racist . That is them being politically smart .
So for me the choice is do we get politically smart too and win this fight by limiting their ability to spin us in a bad light or do we say Fxxxx them , let them continue with the natural order as long as we can sing certain songs which they will use against us .
No probs, Jimbo, and I see exactly where you are coming from.

Would the Green Brigade allow us that choice?

Somehow I doubt it, which reenforces my point that they are quite simply a non-democratic jackboot set up.

They are a law unto themselves.
 

Theverdict

Well-known member
#92
I hate Fox Hunting but I do t use a Celtic game to show that. Why not March and Protest? The Irish teams supporters do t sing them. Why do we? Are we saying we don’t move on. We don’t hate the Germans anymore, or sign songs about the SS. It’s like constantly picking at a scab. It never heals. I hate to hear IRA songs at games because it damages our club. It endangers fans who travel the country and those singing don’t march as can be witnessed by any Republican march.

It takes more than a wee Palestinian flag or an ira song sung at our games to change the world. Be political get involved if you are passionate, but leave the games for Celtic is my view
 

boab1916

Well-known member
#94
To those who know, no explanation is necessary , to those who do not know no explanation is possible
Rosa Parks rode at the front of a Montgomery, Alabama, bus on the day the Supreme Court's ban on segregation of the city's buses took effect. A year earlier, she had been arrested for refusing to give up her seat on a bus.

Sometimes it only takes a simple action to change the world, for some who would be doomed to live in the oppression forever.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
 

Anton

Well-known member
#95
To those who know, no explanation is necessary , to those who do not know no explanation is possible
Not quite true, Micma, it depends on whether those who don't know could be assed finding out, with an open mind, or just prefer to wallow in hatred and bile - then the explanation is not possible, it is futile.
 

boab1916

Well-known member
#96
Not quite true, Micma, it depends on whether those who don't know could be assed finding out, with an open mind, or just prefer to wallow in hatred and bile - then the explanation is not possible, it is futile.
Some saw a black woman sitting on a bus looking out a window, some saw a leader of greatness and understood the pain and suffering endured just to present that simple picture. Ignorance is not a genetic gene inherited, but it is passed down from your shared DNA.
 

JimMc

Active member
#97
I think there are some distinctly Irish songs that the open minded viewer around the world would marvel at and at the same time serve a better aim for Celtic fans, be that aim to wind up sevco or mason or british nationalist-unionist, or if simply sung to promote the Irish foundations and encourage the unique 21st Century ongoing connections of Celtic.

Reality is many around the world including Ireland only know of Celtic or were first interested in following Celtic because of the supposed Irish links, many of them were at first curious and searching only because of the proud Irish or Irish rebel links imagined from story to their mind.
the actor Jay Barachel with Irish roots is A Typical in my experience. They learn it as they get there!
Point is many fans only get there because of the overt Irish overtones.

Ireland and the Irish itself as much as if not more so than 1967 is what makes Celtic a global club, with total respect to the great Lions, few kids today (unless told) genuinely cares or could name two players from 1967.
But a Celtic without Ireland and the Irish would quickly revert to a local Scottish club not much bigger than Hibernian.

Regardless People will do as they please, the idea of agreeing a song book is a pipe dream, especially at a club base like Celtic where conformity has always been about not conforming to standard.
Every older generation on every subject since the dawn of time thinks it has the right to preach, just as every younger generation is just not listening.
Often the most passionate preacher the former biggest sinner in their own youth.
 
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boab1916

Well-known member
#98
Personally I think there are many distinctly Irish songs that the independent viewer would marvel at and at the same time serve a better aim, be that to wind up sevco or to promote the Irish foundations and unique 21st Century ongoing connections of Celtic.

But my view is people will do as they please, the idea of agreeing a song book is a pipe dream, especially at a club base like Celtic where conformity has always been about not conforming to standard.
Every older generation on every subject since the dawn of time thinks it has the right to preach, just as every younger generation is just not listening.
https://celticnoise.com/threads/the-fix-was-always-in.399/
watch this
 

boab1916

Well-known member
#99
So fair enough you don't like the discussion on politics and Irish history, yet you proceed to give your opinion on the same topic and ask the same questions previously asked??? I don't think there's one person commenting on here that doesn't support the team. By not talking about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There's no one arguing here, it's just differing opinions!
https://celticnoise.com/threads/the-fix-was-always-in.399/
 
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