surprise surprise

Micmac

Well-known member
Not quite true, Micma, it depends on whether those who don't know could be assed finding out, with an open mind, or just prefer to wallow in hatred and bile - then the explanation is not possible, it is futile.
Let's think better of our Orange brethren Anton , we are after all an inclusive club. As for wallowing in bile and hatred least said best. God bless Micmac HH
 
So fair enough you don't like the discussion on politics and Irish history, yet you proceed to give your opinion on the same topic and ask the same questions previously asked??? I don't think there's one person commenting on here that doesn't support the team. By not talking about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There's no one arguing here, it's just differing opinions!
Er, no. More than happy to discuss politics, Irish history, British history, World history. Haven't given my opinion on any of those subjects. Have given my opinion that I'd prefer if we, as a group of football fans, did our best to keep all of those out of football in general and our club in particular. Doesn't seem too big an ask. Concentrate on the football.
 

The Deadner

Well-known member
Er, no. More than happy to discuss politics, Irish history, British history, World history. Haven't given my opinion on any of those subjects. Have given my opinion that I'd prefer if we, as a group of football fans, did our best to keep all of those out of football in general and our club in particular. Doesn't seem too big an ask. Concentrate on the football.
Good luck with that!
 

Theverdict

Well-known member
Rosa Parks rode at the front of a Montgomery, Alabama, bus on the day the Supreme Court's ban on segregation of the city's buses took effect. A year earlier, she had been arrested for refusing to give up her seat on a bus.

Sometimes it only takes a simple action to change the world, for some who would be doomed to live in the oppression forever.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Rosa took her life in her hands by boarding that bus. To suggest singing IRA songs or waving a Palestinian flag is comparable is ridiculous.

Courage changes the world. How courageous is it to sing the BBB at a game?

If I were to witness 10,000 at the next Republican march, I would at least say they have turned out to show they really care. 200 at a push shows me clearly that is not the case.

Hit the streets, get involved in the political protest by all means. Belting out provo songs at a game does fuck all to change fuck all, apart from dragging our name through the mud.

The Irish fans don’t even sing them at games. They aren’t descended from Irish people, they are Irish people. Explain that.
 
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The Deadner

Well-known member
Rosa took her life in her hands by boarding that bus. To suggest singing IRA songs or waving a Palestinian flag is comparable is ridiculous.

Courage changes the world. How courageous is it to sing the BBB at a game?

If I were to witness 10,000 at the next Republican march, I would at least say they have turned out to show they really care. 200 at a push shows me clearly that is not the case.

Hit the streets, get involved in the political protest by all means. Belting out provo songs at a game does fuck all to change fuck all, apart from dragging our name through the mud.

The Irish fans don’t even sing them at games. They aren’t descended from Irish people, they are Irish people. Explain that.
People are entitled to sing what they want. The pc brigade are in overdrive. There's a lot worse shit sung at premier league matches. I don't see what attendances at republican marches has to do with singin songs. These songs are sung at Irish matches. I'm Irish and love singin and listening to these songs as does most people where I come from. My children even sing them, which I have no problem with!
 

Theverdict

Well-known member
People are entitled to sing what they want. The pc brigade are in overdrive. There's a lot worse shit sung at premier league matches. I don't see what attendances at republican marches has to do with singin songs. These songs are sung at Irish matches. I'm Irish and love singin and listening to these songs as does most people where I come from. My children even sing them, which I have no problem with!
Why do we never hear them during Irish games then? Why is it PC to suggest that singing about Ireland’s history is best served through political involvement rather than belting out a song. Why do Celtic ask fans not to sing them? What have they to do with lifting the team, many of whom don’t come from an Irish background? How does singing the BBB rally our team?

Are we there to support the team or Irish independence? We do realise I hope that the Provo’s have given up the armed struggle, so why sing about filling empty holsters, yet don’t have the balls to march and face down Loyalist hostility? An army that won’t even march wouldn’t fill me with confidence of fighting.

The Good Friday Agreement tried to get us away from the never ending cycle of violence. How can that be helped by not moving forward in the hope of reconciliation?

And why is Celtic primarily used as the vehicle for this? The only way most who sing lift a finger to show real commitment to injustice?

It’s not about forgetting our origins it’s about supporting our football team and not being the sporting wing of the cause.

Why also pick Palestine? There are a hundred oppressed people’s. Why not the Kurds? Is it because it mirrors Ireland perhaps?

Why not sing about the injustices here in Scotland for that matter? Foodbanks, poverty, discrimination, attacks on Catholics higher than any minority group?

I respect political ideals of justice but I find it difficult to take anyone seriously that they want to fill a holster but won’t march.

It reminds me of the Blackadder line from General Melchick.

“We are right behind you”

To which Blackadder replied

“Yes sir, about 16 miles behind us.”

Political passion that only shows itself every away game is not passion, it’s tokenism.

I want to hear our support singing about Celtic. 90% of the songs on Sunday where about the IRA.

I support the Celtic, not the IRA. If I want to sing songs about the struggle I would march and sing them. When I go to see my team, I want to support them. To lift them. We have great songs. Let the People sing them. HH
 

boab1916

Well-known member
Rosa took her life in her hands by boarding that bus. To suggest singing IRA songs or waving a Palestinian flag is comparable is ridiculous.

Courage changes the world. How courageous is it to sing the BBB at a game?

If I were to witness 10,000 at the next Republican march, I would at least say they have turned out to show they really care. 200 at a push shows me clearly that is not the case.

Hit the streets, get involved in the political protest by all means. Belting out provo songs at a game does fuck all to change fuck all, apart from dragging our name through the mud.

The Irish fans don’t even sing them at games. They aren’t descended from Irish people, they are Irish people. Explain that.
Tell that to Celtic FC when they encourage 60,000 to join in.

It depends what context you placed my statement, for example, it took courage for an IRA to be formed in the first place and let the aggressor know they will not take their shite. Now depending on the songs you heard been sung what songs have you heard that instigates violence.
Just to clarify you suggested my whole argument revolved around flag waving and signing and this achieves nothing, well for a start the show of support for Palestine increased in reaching a wider audience.
This could be one of those debates were Flower of Scotland and God Save the Queen are deemed sectarian and bigoted towards a nation. One chases people with claymores and the other one wants to crush rebellious Scots.
And if you put both together there’s your violence, crush us and we’ll batter you.
And the lyrics below is no doubt in my mind an out and out rebel tune if ever there was one and Celtic FC expose your ears to it constantly.
For those who are in love
There's a song that's warm and tender
For those who are oppressed
In song you can protest
So liberate your minds
And give your soul expression
Open up your hearts
I'll sing for you this song

Let the people sing their stories and their songs
And the music of their native land
Their lullabies and battlecries and songs of hope and joy
So join us hand in hand
All across this ancient land
Throughout the test of time
It was music that kept their spirits free
Those songs of yours and of mine

It was back in ancient times
The bard would tell his stories
Of the heroes, of the villain
Of the chieftains in the glen
Through Elizabethian time
And Cromwellian war and fury
Put our pipers to the sword
Killed our harpers and our bards


Let the people sing their stories and their songs
And the music of their native land
Their lullabies and battlecries and songs of hope and joy
So join us hand in hand
All across this ancient land
Throughout the test of time
It was music that kept their spirits free
Those songs of yours and of mine

Ireland, land of song
Your music lives forever
In its valleys, in its mountains
In its hills and in its glens
Our music did survive
Through famine and oppression
To the generations gone
I'll sing for you this song

Let the people sing their stories and their songs
And the music of their native land
Their lullabies and battlecries and songs of hope and joy
So join us hand in hand
All across this ancient land
Throughout the test of time
It was music that kept their spirits free
Those songs of yours and of mine
 

Theverdict

Well-known member
Tell that to Celtic FC when they encourage 60,000 to join in.

It depends what context you placed my statement, for example, it took courage for an IRA to be formed in the first place and let the aggressor know they will not take their shite. Now depending on the songs you heard been sung what songs have you heard that instigates violence.
Just to clarify you suggested my whole argument revolved around flag waving and signing and this achieves nothing, well for a start the show of support for Palestine increased in reaching a wider audience.
This could be one of those debates were Flower of Scotland and God Save the Queen are deemed sectarian and bigoted towards a nation. One chases people with claymores and the other one wants to crush rebellious Scots.
And if you put both together there’s your violence, crush us and we’ll batter you.
And the lyrics below is no doubt in my mind an out and out rebel tune if ever there was one and Celtic FC expose your ears to it constantly.
For those who are in love
There's a song that's warm and tender
For those who are oppressed
In song you can protest
So liberate your minds
And give your soul expression
Open up your hearts
I'll sing for you this song

Let the people sing their stories and their songs
And the music of their native land
Their lullabies and battlecries and songs of hope and joy
So join us hand in hand
All across this ancient land
Throughout the test of time
It was music that kept their spirits free
Those songs of yours and of mine

It was back in ancient times
The bard would tell his stories
Of the heroes, of the villain
Of the chieftains in the glen
Through Elizabethian time
And Cromwellian war and fury
Put our pipers to the sword
Killed our harpers and our bards


Let the people sing their stories and their songs
And the music of their native land
Their lullabies and battlecries and songs of hope and joy
So join us hand in hand
All across this ancient land
Throughout the test of time
It was music that kept their spirits free
Those songs of yours and of mine

Ireland, land of song
Your music lives forever
In its valleys, in its mountains
In its hills and in its glens
Our music did survive
Through famine and oppression
To the generations gone
I'll sing for you this song

Let the people sing their stories and their songs
And the music of their native land
Their lullabies and battlecries and songs of hope and joy
So join us hand in hand
All across this ancient land
Throughout the test of time
It was music that kept their spirits free
Those songs of yours and of mine
I am not questioning why people support anything. I’m asking them to do it where it matters. At our games? Song after song?

Do we want another 800 years of the same intrasegent hatred?

Even if people do, can they do it away from the games and sing Celtic songs about Celtic and not how the Merryplougboy got on?

I know this splits the support, but my view it is nothing more than tokenism stands.

We are Glasgow Celtic FC

We are not The PIRA

It embarrasses us. It is used against us. I have news for you also, not everyone who supports Celtic agrees with it. Not everyone agreed with bombing memorials, or shopping centres that killed civilians. Or want a song sung about Lee Rigsby that tarred us all.

If you’re a Republican fine. Be one in your own time and if you happen to be a Celt too, sing about the men behind our club who play fitba.

Im fucking sick of the away day provos song book. I want to hear us belt out Celtic songs. Not fucking dirges about the struggle. Plenty of pubs you can go to for that. At least three marches a year you can go to for that.

It’s the damage that’s done to our club. If you do t think it causes damage to our image then that depresses me. It lets the bile spouted by Sevco be equalised. Saying it’s political isn’t an excuse. The Provos bombed civilians at a rememberance day parade. How the fuck can we think that’s not going to be adversely looked at? Do we simply forget the bad stuff? I don’t think that’s honest. I know it will probably never change, but I hope it does.

We are Celtic, all inclusive. Let’s be like that. That’s all I’m saying.
 

boab1916

Well-known member
Why do we never hear them during Irish games then? Why is it PC to suggest that singing about Ireland’s history is best served through political involvement rather than belting out a song. Why do Celtic ask fans not to sing them? What have they to do with lifting the team, many of whom don’t come from an Irish background? How does singing the BBB rally our team?

Are we there to support the team or Irish independence? We do realise I hope that the Provo’s have given up the armed struggle, so why sing about filling empty holsters, yet don’t have the balls to march and face down Loyalist hostility? An army that won’t even march wouldn’t fill me with confidence of fighting.

The Good Friday Agreement tried to get us away from the never ending cycle of violence. How can that be helped by not moving forward in the hope of reconciliation?

And why is Celtic primarily used as the vehicle for this? The only way most who sing lift a finger to show real commitment to injustice?

It’s not about forgetting our origins it’s about supporting our football team and not being the sporting wing of the cause.

Why also pick Palestine? There are a hundred oppressed people’s. Why not the Kurds? Is it because it mirrors Ireland perhaps?

Why not sing about the injustices here in Scotland for that matter? Foodbanks, poverty, discrimination, attacks on Catholics higher than any minority group?

I respect political ideals of justice but I find it difficult to take anyone seriously that they want to fill a holster but won’t march.

It reminds me of the Blackadder line from General Melchick.

“We are right behind you”

To which Blackadder replied

“Yes sir, about 16 miles behind us.”

Political passion that only shows itself every away game is not passion, it’s tokenism.

I want to hear our support singing about Celtic. 90% of the songs on Sunday where about the IRA.

I support the Celtic, not the IRA. If I want to sing songs about the struggle I would march and sing them. When I go to see my team, I want to support them. To lift them. We have great songs. Let the People sing them. HH
Then tell Celtic FC to stop playing tunes that contain the words
"For those who are oppressed
In song you can protest ................"
 

Theverdict

Well-known member
Then tell Celtic FC to stop playing tunes that contain the words
"For those who are oppressed
In song you can protest ................"
Then they need to get their fucking act together too.

What about this for a change. Celtic songs. About our team, our legends? Our triumphs? Do you think it lifts players listening to the BBB? Our sense of humour with funny songs over the years?

That’s what I love about our support. I stood in Seville and witnessed the greatest support drive on our team till the last kick of the baw.

Not one rebel song did I hear.
 

boab1916

Well-known member
Then they need to get their fucking act together too.

What about this for a change. Celtic songs. About our team, our legends? Our triumphs? Do you think it lifts players listening to the BBB? Our sense of humour with funny songs over the years?

That’s what I love about our support. I stood in Seville and witnessed the greatest support drive on our team till the last kick of the baw.

Not one rebel song did I hear.
I was brought up with walk on and grand ol team and jimmy johnstone on the wing etc, but let no one be fooled when Celtic PR and through the PA play the Junglees etc they know fine well that the ooh ahh bit is going to lead to up the RA and for them its a win win on sales. Marketing is no less dirtier than media. The BBC had no problem lending its bit to racism with bless this house etc and sitcoms like it, and we are been reminded of a period they describe as a dark period with Mark Walters, so maybe the custodians have to be the ones, but at the end of the day the ordinary fans are the catalyst for the creation and setting of agendas.
 

Theverdict

Well-known member
I was brought up with walk on and grand ol team and jimmy johnstone on the wing etc, but let no one be fooled when Celtic PR and through the PA play the Junglees etc they know fine well that the ooh ahh bit is going to lead to up the RA and for them its a win win on sales. Marketing is no less dirtier than media. The BBC had no problem lending its bit to racism with bless this house etc and sitcoms like it, and we are been reminded of a period they describe as a dark period with Mark Walters, so maybe the custodians have to be the ones, but at the end of the day the ordinary fans are the catalyst for the creation and setting of agendas.
I don’t disagree with what you are saying there. I don’t have a single problem with people’s political beliefs. I do have a problem with people playing at it and only showing it at our games.

It’s takes more than that.

It doesn’t inspire our team.

Who are we there to support? Celtic or the BB?

Sometimes I wonder.
 

Anton

Well-known member
Why do we never hear them during Irish games then? Why is it PC to suggest that singing about Ireland’s history is best served through political involvement rather than belting out a song. Why do Celtic ask fans not to sing them? What have they to do with lifting the team, many of whom don’t come from an Irish background? How does singing the BBB rally our team?

Are we there to support the team or Irish independence? We do realise I hope that the Provo’s have given up the armed struggle, so why sing about filling empty holsters, yet don’t have the balls to march and face down Loyalist hostility? An army that won’t even march wouldn’t fill me with confidence of fighting.

The Good Friday Agreement tried to get us away from the never ending cycle of violence. How can that be helped by not moving forward in the hope of reconciliation?

And why is Celtic primarily used as the vehicle for this? The only way most who sing lift a finger to show real commitment to injustice?

It’s not about forgetting our origins it’s about supporting our football team and not being the sporting wing of the cause.

Why also pick Palestine? There are a hundred oppressed people’s. Why not the Kurds? Is it because it mirrors Ireland perhaps?

Why not sing about the injustices here in Scotland for that matter? Foodbanks, poverty, discrimination, attacks on Catholics higher than any minority group?

I respect political ideals of justice but I find it difficult to take anyone seriously that they want to fill a holster but won’t march.

It reminds me of the Blackadder line from General Melchick.

“We are right behind you”

To which Blackadder replied

“Yes sir, about 16 miles behind us.”

Political passion that only shows itself every away game is not passion, it’s tokenism.

I want to hear our support singing about Celtic. 90% of the songs on Sunday where about the IRA.

I support the Celtic, not the IRA. If I want to sing songs about the struggle I would march and sing them. When I go to see my team, I want to support them. To lift them. We have great songs. Let the People sing them. HH
TV, thanks mate!

That is exactly what I've wanted to say the whole time.

Don't think much needs to be added to it.

Now, rather than giving up on what we believe to be BEST for the team and our support, we need to get a message to the GB that, although the they believe they do, THEY DO NOT SPEAK FOR CELTIC!!

Thanks again, mate 👍
 

JimMc

Well-known member
gstq offends me, I find the words and sentiment as perverse as they are pathetic, so I switch off any time I am able rather than hear it, if I can't switch off I'd hum so as not to hear it, but I do not go around demanding people not sing it or consider them more likely to be attacked, even though it sickens me I know such demands to not sing will only make those who sing it for purpose sing it even louder.

I'm Irish and hear people all over Munster singing for want of a better word 'rebel songs every weekend.
Kind of ironic how someone is referred to as a rebel if they were fighting in their own land resisting a foreign interfering bully who were there to dictate at the end of a gun. Rebel is an example of 'controlled words supplied by the Crown to manipulate and choreograph their news and history.
When ever it suits the crown mafia government in London then people committing crimes against humanity from torture to massacres, even beheadings which were carried out habitually by the mujahideen on the Soviets, they were according to the british media carried out by brave highland resistance and freedom fighters and considered allies when it suited them!
So to take any moral guidance from britains supposed norms and standards or be particularly bothered about what might upset their ears, is not going to be a major consideration for many whether Irish or not.

After many years supporting I now think of Celtic in its own right distinct and have no need to link with anything but the match, but I am not going to pretend I was not first attracted to Celtic by the history and overt 'proud Irish' links and by people singing songs that made that clear.

I think there are more effective Irish songs to be sung regardless of aim, but if these IRA songs are not as popular with the wider support as some believe then they will cease to be sung like any other, so relax, besides no one who has read much history can logically imagine they'll go away by dictate or a ban. One of the very reasons why ballads in Ireland survived and thrived.

I can understand those who do not like the simplistic chants as they are very similar to the simplistic chants expected of 'them'. At the same time I can understand those suspicious of agenda of some and have no doubts that there is a minority element in the Celtic support who do not like any of the Irish reality and would use any angle to divide.

It is extremely unlikely that any forum post or any meeting of supposed agreement will effect any real change. Fergus McCann or someone behind it tried a list, so If you want change then sing other songs that Celtic fans will join in with, out sing them or come up with better songs that fans will prefer to sing.


.
 

Anton

Well-known member
gstq offends me, I find the words and sentiment as perverse as they are pathetic, so I switch off any time I am able rather than hear it, if I can't switch off I'd hum so as not to hear it, but I do not go around demanding people not sing it or consider them more likely to be attacked, even though it sickens me I know such demands to not sing will only make those who sing it for purpose sing it even louder.

I'm Irish and hear people all over Munster singing for want of a better word 'rebel songs every weekend. Ironic how someone is referred to as a rebel when they were fighting in their own land resisting a foreign interfering bully who were there to dictate at the end of a gun. Rebel is an example of 'controlled words supplied by the Crown to manipulate and choreograph their news and history.
When ever it suits the crown mafia government in London then people committing crimes against humanity from torture to massacres, even beheadings which were carried out habitually by the mujahideen on the Soviets, they were according to the british media carried out by brave highland resistance and freedom fighters and considered allies when it suited them!
So to take any moral guidance from britains supposed norms and standards or be particularly bothered about what might upset their ears, is not going to be a major consideration for many whether Irish or not.
Well, Jim, in a modern, progressive and inclusive Scotland - which, in essence is what we're talking about - it should be a major consideration of everyone.

It's quite simple, if you feel that pro-IRA chants are fine then don't start crying like a two year old when the Huns sing their sectarian shite.

Also, let the rest of us have a voice when it comes to those chants at CP.

It is abundantly clear that the majority agree they MAY cause offence. That is a starting point for us all to discuss the topic.
 

Theverdict

Well-known member
gstq offends me, I find the words and sentiment as perverse as they are pathetic, so I switch off any time I am able rather than hear it, if I can't switch off I'd hum so as not to hear it, but I do not go around demanding people not sing it or consider them more likely to be attacked, even though it sickens me I know such demands to not sing will only make those who sing it for purpose sing it even louder.

I'm Irish and hear people all over Munster singing for want of a better word 'rebel songs every weekend. Ironic how someone is referred to as a rebel when they were fighting in their own land resisting a foreign interfering bully who were there to dictate at the end of a gun. Rebel is an example of 'controlled words supplied by the Crown to manipulate and choreograph their news and history.
When ever it suits the crown mafia government in London then people committing crimes against humanity from torture to massacres, even beheadings which were carried out habitually by the mujahideen on the Soviets, they were according to the british media carried out by brave highland resistance and freedom fighters and considered allies when it suited them!
So to take any moral guidance from britains supposed norms and standards or be particularly bothered about what might upset their ears, is not going to be a major consideration for many whether Irish or not.
The origins and meaning of the word can be debated. The facts are that you hear people say, havingva bevvy with the Rebs blasting. It was a rebellion against the Crown. From way back when the Norman Catholic Crown first invaded and suppressed the Irish.

Singing those songs in Munster I don’t have an issue with. It’s away at Killie, or any ground, ours included that piss me off.

We will now have an interlude of twenty minutes supporting the team to sing songs about the old country. The thing is, it’s not all Celtic supporters old country. No group can claim their history be sung. We are inclusive, many people who were born a Prod are as fanatical about the team as any of us born catholic with Irish links. Many Muslim Scots are Celtic fanatics. Poles, English Thia, you name it, we have them. Why not unite with one purpose? Glasgow Celtic a football team filled with all creeds and colours in a common aim to play football the Celtic way.

Any nationalistic or political compulsion to burst into song about, do it at an appropriate venue.
 

JimMc

Well-known member
Well, Jim, in a modern, progressive and inclusive Scotland - which, in essence is what we're talking about - it should be a major consideration of everyone.

It's quite simple, if you feel that pro-IRA chants are fine then don't start crying like a two year old when the Huns sing their sectarian shite.

Also, let the rest of us have a voice when it comes to those chants at CP.

It is abundantly clear that the majority agree they MAY cause offence. That is a starting point for us all to discuss the topic.
I'll now follow suit by twisting your words to imply something not actually stated by you and out of context to post .

Well Anton if you feel it's fine to promote the british war poppy and singalong to some supposed god to be especially looking out for some supposed queen and by default encouraging and appeasing extremes of british nationalists, then fine don't start crying like a one year old when people sing songs in the very opposite.

Complaining about songs! Where did I state any such notion, it's you and your supposed majority who want to prohibit not me. As for fans of sevco I personally could not care any less to even consider complaining what any of them or any other british nationalist half wit sings about. I do not listen out to be offended by them and made that clear if you actually read, rather than just jump straight into reiterate your own views as if they are the supposed real truth over another and not just your own opinion.

You do know that you are only speaking for yourself and you're not a we're anything.

People change adapt and start new tunes as they go through life, well at least the thinking ones do, so give people an alternative, and sing yours all the louder especially as you are so convinced you are the of the majority right

Your last point

It is not abundantly clear what so ever, and no majority has been proven what so ever by any post here, but have read repetitive insistence of being right over another point of view.
 
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Anton

Well-known member
I'll now follow suit by twisting your words to imply something not actually stated by you and out of context to post .

Well Anton if you feel it's fine to promote the british war poppy and singalong to some supposed god to be especially looking out for some supposed queen and by default encouraging and appeasing extremes of british nationalists, then fine don't start crying like a one year old when people sing songs in the very opposite.

Complaining about songs! Where did I state any such notion, it's you and your supposed majority who want to prohibit not me. As for fans of sevco I personally could not care any less to even consider complaining what any of them or any other british nationalist half wit sings about. I do not listen out to be offended by them and made that clear if you actually read, rather than just jump straight into reiterate your own views as if they are the supposed real truth over another and not just your own opinion.

You do know that you are only speaking for yourself and you're not a we're anything.

People change adapt and start new tunes as they go through life, well at least the thinking ones do, so give people an alternative, and sing yours all the louder especially as you are so convinced you are the of the majority right

Your last point

It is not abundantly clear what so ever, and no majority has been proven what so ever by any post here, but have read repetitive insistence of being right over another point of view.
Jim,

Seems like an angry post so I won't bother reading it til later and give you a shout then 👍
 

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