surprise surprise

The Deadner

Well-known member
gstq offends me, I find the words and sentiment as perverse as they are pathetic, so I switch off any time I am able rather than hear it, if I can't switch off I'd hum so as not to hear it, but I do not go around demanding people not sing it or consider them more likely to be attacked, even though it sickens me I know such demands to not sing will only make those who sing it for purpose sing it even louder.

I'm Irish and hear people all over Munster singing for want of a better word 'rebel songs every weekend.
Kind of ironic how someone is referred to as a rebel if they were fighting in their own land resisting a foreign interfering bully who were there to dictate at the end of a gun. Rebel is an example of 'controlled words supplied by the Crown to manipulate and choreograph their news and history.
When ever it suits the crown mafia government in London then people committing crimes against humanity from torture to massacres, even beheadings which were carried out habitually by the mujahideen on the Soviets, they were according to the british media carried out by brave highland resistance and freedom fighters and considered allies when it suited them!
So to take any moral guidance from britains supposed norms and standards or be particularly bothered about what might upset their ears, is not going to be a major consideration for many whether Irish or not.

After many years supporting I now think of Celtic in its own right distinct and have no need to link with anything but the match, but I am not going to pretend I was not first attracted to Celtic by the history and overt 'proud Irish' links and by people singing songs that made that clear.

I think there are more effective Irish songs to be sung regardless of aim, but if these IRA songs are not as popular with the wider support as some believe then they will cease to be sung like any other, so relax, besides no one who has read much history can logically imagine they'll go away by dictate or a ban. One of the very reasons why ballads in Ireland survived and thrived.

I can understand those who do not like the simplistic chants as they are very similar to the simplistic chants expected of 'them'. At the same time I can understand those suspicious of agenda of some and have no doubts that there is a minority element in the Celtic support who do not like any of the Irish reality and would use any angle to divide.

It is extremely unlikely that any forum post or any meeting of supposed agreement will effect any real change. Fergus McCann or someone behind it tried a list, so If you want change then sing other songs that Celtic fans will join in with, out sing them or come up with better songs that fans will prefer to sing.


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Wholeheartedly agree with your post Jim. Pretty much what I was gonna write, so ye saved me a lot of typing;).
 

The Deadner

Well-known member
I'll now follow suit by twisting your words to imply something not actually stated by you and out of context to post .

Well Anton if you feel it's fine to promote the british war poppy and singalong to some supposed god to be especially looking out for some supposed queen and by default encouraging and appeasing extremes of british nationalists, then fine don't start crying like a one year old when people sing songs in the very opposite.

Complaining about songs! Where did I state any such notion, it's you and your supposed majority who want to prohibit not me. As for fans of sevco I personally could not care any less to even consider complaining what any of them or any other british nationalist half wit sings about. I do not listen out to be offended by them and made that clear if you actually read, rather than just jump straight into reiterate your own views as if they are the supposed real truth over another and not just your own opinion.

You do know that you are only speaking for yourself and you're not a we're anything.

People change adapt and start new tunes as they go through life, well at least the thinking ones do, so give people an alternative, and sing yours all the louder especially as you are so convinced you are the of the majority right

Your last point

It is not abundantly clear what so ever, and no majority has been proven what so ever by any post here, but have read repetitive insistence of being right over another point of view.
(y)
 

Anton

Well-known member
I'll now follow suit by twisting your words to imply something not actually stated by you and out of context to post .

Well Anton if you feel it's fine to promote the british war poppy and singalong to some supposed god to be especially looking out for some supposed queen and by default encouraging and appeasing extremes of british nationalists, then fine don't start crying like a one year old when people sing songs in the very opposite.

Complaining about songs! Where did I state any such notion, it's you and your supposed majority who want to prohibit not me. As for fans of sevco I personally could not care any less to even consider complaining what any of them or any other british nationalist half wit sings about. I do not listen out to be offended by them and made that clear if you actually read, rather than just jump straight into reiterate your own views as if they are the supposed real truth over another and not just your own opinion.

You do know that you are only speaking for yourself and you're not a we're anything.

People change adapt and start new tunes as they go through life, well at least the thinking ones do, so give people an alternative, and sing yours all the louder especially as you are so convinced you are the of the majority right

Your last point

It is not abundantly clear what so ever, and no majority has been proven what so ever by any post here, but have read repetitive insistence of being right over another point of view.
Jim,

You, perhaps, were just too desperate to have a go at me without actually reading/ reflecting on my post.

I simply stated that it appears the majority on this thread agree these songs, "MAY CAUSE OFFENCE".

Therefore, I shall ask you :

Do you agree these songs "MAY" cause offence to some?

Whether you like it or not, agree with it or not, want to bury your head in the sand or not the majority on here agree they may!

So, how does that compare with your version of me declaring myself as the royal, "We"? Quite simply, it doesn't!

Now, my question to you: If we, as a majority, agree these songs MAY cause offence then why do the GB believe they can do what they want, when they want and act as nothing less than a group who promote their own agendas at will ... "Fuck you if you don't agree with us".

My question to the GB is what are you so afraid of by holding a debate on a subject which is divisive within our support?

Quite a few posters on here, like myself, find it to be an embarrassment.
 

Maria

Well-known member
Maria
We all know and buy in to the genesis of the Latter day IRA in 60s Ireland
Paisley and his crew were bombing in the mid 60s to try to stop civil rights happening ..someone had to protect the RC communities .that aspect was laudAble and what was sung about That said from what I observed it morphed over time into an outrageous and indefensible organisation . I abhor the fans glorifying that behaviour !
And as I posted it allows the Ibrox RACISTS to act with impunity!
Appreciate your reply Verum2. HH ☘️
 

Maria

Well-known member
People are entitled to sing what they want. The pc brigade are in overdrive. There's a lot worse shit sung at premier league matches. I don't see what attendances at republican marches has to do with singin songs. These songs are sung at Irish matches. I'm Irish and love singin and listening to these songs as does most people where I come from. My children even sing them, which I have no problem with!

Wish they would get more pc over by and make a difference there but then they would really need to come down from their pulpit eh?

There’s people homeless by the thousands and yet the pc brigade is banging on about the odd song.

Seriously get a fuqin life.
 

Maria

Well-known member
Jim,

You, perhaps, were just too desperate to have a go at me without actually reading/ reflecting on my post.

I simply stated that it appears the majority on this thread agree these songs, "MAY CAUSE OFFENCE".

Therefore, I shall ask you :

Do you agree these songs "MAY" cause offence to some?

Whether you like it or not, agree with it or not, want to bury your head in the sand or not the majority on here agree they may!

So, how does that compare with your version of me declaring myself as the royal, "We"? Quite simply, it doesn't!

Now, my question to you: If we, as a majority, agree these songs MAY cause offence then why do the GB believe they can do what they want, when they want and act as nothing less than a group who promote their own agendas at will ... "Fuck you if you don't agree with us".

My question to the GB is what are you so afraid of by holding a debate on a subject which is divisive within our support?

Quite a few posters on here, like myself, find it to be an embarrassment.

But theres your assumption that the majority agree with you.

I don’t see singing at CP a problem.

I do find homelessness and poverty an embarrassment in the 21 Century i find that really offensive.

Why not concentrate on that good cause pal and do some of the great work the Green Brigade do, hell they may even help.

For me there is more pertinent offensive issues that require immediate address.

In the whole scheme of things.

HH pal ☘️
 

Anton

Well-known member
But theres your assumption that the majority agree with you.

I don’t see singing at CP a problem.

I do find homelessness and poverty an embarrassment in the 21 Century i find that really offensive.

Why not concentrate on that good cause pal and do some of the great work the Green Brigade do, hell they may even help.

For me there is more pertinent offensive issues that require immediate address.

In the whole scheme of things.

HH pal ☘️
Maria, where have I assumed to that everyone agrees with me?

The majority on here agree that pro-IRA chants MAY cause offence. To be honest, anyone who doesn't agree they MAY cause offence has obviously lost the plot.

Also, why I'm the name of Sweet Mary should I concentrate on the good they do when I genuinely believe their constant need to sing about the IRA is an issue they need to debate and reflect upon.

What are the more pertinent offences to discuss?

There are very few issues we've missed on the site as far as I can see.
 

Maria

Well-known member
Maria, where have I assumed to that everyone agrees with me?

The majority on here agree that pro-IRA chants MAY cause offence. To be honest, anyone who doesn't agree they MAY cause offence has obviously lost the plot.

Also, why I'm the name of Sweet Mary should I concentrate on the good they do when I genuinely believe their constant need to sing about the IRA is an issue they need to debate and reflect upon.

What are the more pertinent offences to discuss?

There are very few issues we've missed on the site as far as I can see.

In your post above to Jim

Read the sentence where you started

“Whether you agree”

You did allude to that assumption in its entirety pal. HH ☘️
 

Maria

Well-known member
Maria, where have I assumed to that everyone agrees with me?

The majority on here agree that pro-IRA chants MAY cause offence. To be honest, anyone who doesn't agree they MAY cause offence has obviously lost the plot.

Also, why I'm the name of Sweet Mary should I concentrate on the good they do when I genuinely believe their constant need to sing about the IRA is an issue they need to debate and reflect upon.

What are the more pertinent offences to discuss?

There are very few issues we've missed on the site as far as I can see.

I think there is more causes that need fixed first.
 

Anton

Well-known member
In your post above to Jim

Read the sentence where you started

“Whether you agree”

You did allude to that assumption in its entirety pal. HH ☘️
Maria,

Sorry, but the MAJORITY DO, at least, agree that they UNDERTSAND that SOME, at least, MAY find those songs offensive.

Whether Jim agrees, or not, it is true.
 
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JimMc

Well-known member
We all know and buy in to the genesis of the Latter day IRA in 60s Ireland
Paisley and his crew were bombing in the mid 60s to try to stop civil rights happening ..someone had to protect the RC communities .that aspect was laudAble and what was sung about That said from what I observed it morphed over time into an outrageous and indefensible organisation . I abhor the fans glorifying that behaviour !
And as I posted it allows the Ibrox RACISTS to act with impunity!
Credible points.

However is that a credible argument for not singing songs that are considered by some if not many 'general' Irish in nature such as Sean South or The Broad Black Brimmer or even the simplistic chants modern music adaptations?
Does not any and every military force whether official or renegade have many historical and some with current aspects of it that are outrageous and indefensible?
If so! then that argument is only credible if all anthems and most especially former colonial ones everywhere are no longer sung and banned.
Ideal world it would then be, maybe!
Until then, why should some Celtic fans feel they have to behave to fit in, fit into what?
British double standard morals?

Morphed into! now that's a whole different subject for conversation.
Seriously have no interest in re-telling history stories, but its necessary to enable thought and reply about this in context.
I would suggest that anyone who has ever read much Irish history especially from 1798 onwards and Ireland's forced incorporation into a so called united kingdom, would have concluded that the British crowns state presence in Ireland was enabled only by virtue of their far more powerful and all imposing military force. An armed police force from inception and working out of 'barracks'! might just suggest this even to the remotely curious non reader!
So it is reasonable to state that british crown laws were made to work at the end of a gun or rope.
Military forces can win battles but not minds, and having lost colonies, the british crown system managers knew well that they needed more than the obvious physical threat, hence the discouraging of native language and habits most know of, but it was much more than that, it was systemic every aspect of native life was examined and countered.

Scotland Yard Special Branch first became a household name in Britain and Ireland when it set out to counter the Fenian movement. Countered by the hiring and placing of many double agents and did so purposely to discredit the movement from within and purposely to lead it into a movement that they hoped the public would view as extremists.
A central aim for british crown state agencies was to control as much as possible any movements that it could not stop by military force alone. In Ireland and the Irish abroad, there is no credible doubts that aspects of control was sourced through every means from overt to subtle media propaganda or by the official nineteenth century compulsory crown oath sworn Roman Catholic Priests and Bishops and their regular condemnations and excommunications from the pulpits.

The six counties of the twentieth century was a far more controlled place again, agreed?

So a question could be did peoples movements of any kind that potentially threatened status quo assets and profits, really just morph? or was there a little more to the story! History suggests the latter as do Government reports and enquiries carried out a little more independently thirty or so years later!

So while I personally do not consider the singing of such songs either needed or even the best to sing to either promote the Irish connection or even if sung just to simply wind up 'them'
One of the very reasons why I thought to start https://celticnoise.com/threads/irish-and-scottish-trad-musicians.245/
I don't care much for those who demand and make claims of being more right and of the supposed majority or anyone happy to twist words or change the line of discussion as and when to suit their argument or agenda. If only because such ways have historically been shown to either not work for or worse by default at best actively work against the Irish.

Not the quoted btw, I considered your points worth and in need of replying to, I am just giving another possible side and that sides context to the points.
 
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