Tactical Voting in Scottish Parliamentary Elections – Why Green is the Colour for a Pro-Independence Majority

The Conservative party have been nothing more than an afterthought in Scotland for more than 70 years Stevie. The Labour party has clearly deteriorated to the point that it struggles to come third. The Scottish people do not want either of them, and yet they are forced on us by virtue of what the voters in three other country's want. I think you said before you feel Scotland is no more than a region of the UK. The majority of people absolutely disagree with that. This for me, is the crux of the matter. I'm a Scotsman, I want my country to have COMPLETE control of our destiny. I want my granweans to have something we've never had, I want them and their fellow Scots to have absolute control of their lives. As always, I respect your right to think otherwise.
Could you imagine how fucked up the country would be if wee nic had complete control.
 
Fuk knows how the IRA missed her in Brighton!! 🤬🤬🤬🤬
She knew it was coming was a big story back then Sure Paul Foot said as much or maybe it was Private Eye.
That they could’ve evacuated the building but didn’t.
she widny wid she.
Hope ma Hatred for Her isny clouding my Judgement.

HH 😉
 
I was a nationalist from the day I watched braveheart till the day I made my 1st English friend. Then I realised that the hatred....and there is genuine hatred in scotland for English people, I've fallen out with people over it (had to, my partner and 2 daughters are english) is only 1 way. English people care about the Scots the same way they care about the Spanish or Italian or Australian in that they don't care at all. In the whole they want to work, earn for their families and get on with life the best they can. A bit like scottish people really. People have their own reasons for wanting independence and that's fine. But hatred towards the English is definitely one of the reasons IMO. Not all English people are crusaders, invaders, racist and bad people. Quite a few of them are actually good people.

With the greatest of respect Lubo to say the hatred is only ever one way just isn't true mate...there's no denying there's hatred of the English by some people in Scotland but I can assure you there's also no shortage of genuine hatred in England for the Scots.

I've worked all over down South and I've got family (who are English born and bred) that I normally visit a few times a year and I've both heard and have been on the receiving end of some shocking anti-Scottish sentiment while working and when out and about with the family so let's not kid ourselves that it's a one way street because both countries, like every other country in the world, has it's share of arseholes!

Hatred of the English might be a reason for some who want Independence (a stupid ignorant reason if you ask me) but the vast majority of Independence supporters only want what every other independent country in the world has....the ability to determine our own future as a country by making our own decisions based on the needs and aspirations of the people who live here and not for those decisions to be taken by a government in another country who have little to no interest in those needs and aspirations.

Also if the English only care about the Scots in the same way they care about the Spanish or the Italians or the Australians like you say then why is the Union so important to so many of them and why do so many of them get so bent out of shape at the thought of Scots wanting Independence?
 
With the greatest of respect Lubo to say the hatred is only ever one way just isn't true mate...there's no denying there's hatred of the English by some people in Scotland but I can assure you there's also no shortage of genuine hatred in England for the Scots.

I've worked all over down South and I've got family (who are English born and bred) that I normally visit a few times a year and I've both heard and have been on the receiving end of some shocking anti-Scottish sentiment while working and when out and about with the family so let's not kid ourselves that it's a one way street because both countries, like every other country in the world, has it's share of arseholes!

Hatred of the English might be a reason for some who want Independence (a stupid ignorant reason if you ask me) but the vast majority of Independence supporters only want what every other independent country in the world has....the ability to determine our own future as a country by making our own decisions based on the needs and aspirations of the people who live here and not for those decisions to be taken by a government in another country who have little to no interest in those needs and aspirations.

Also if the English only care about the Scots in the same way they care about the Spanish or the Italians or the Australians like you say then why is the Union so important to so many of them and why do so many of them get so bent out of shape at the thought of Scots wanting Independence?

I'll rephrase is as you're 100% correct. Ofcourse there will be English people who hate Scots. What I should have said is that I haven't met any. Not one. Or if they did hate me they hid it well. But I have met plenty of Scots who hate English people. And can I also point out the vast majority of English people, that I've met, couldn't care less if Scotland went independent or not. And the ones who do care actually want scotland to stay because they love the idea of the UK. Us all being one big union....and I'm talking about guys on site or the guy down the pub who isn't looking at the union the way the politicians are. They aren't thinking about tax on whiskey and haggis.
 
I'll rephrase is as you're 100% correct. Ofcourse there will be English people who hate Scots. What I should have said is that I haven't met any. Not one. Or if they did hate me they hid it well. But I have met plenty of Scots who hate English people. And can I also point out the vast majority of English people, that I've met, couldn't care less if Scotland went independent or not. And the ones who do care actually want scotland to stay because they love the idea of the UK. Us all being one big union....and I'm talking about guys on site or the guy down the pub who isn't looking at the union the way the politicians are. They aren't thinking about tax on whiskey and haggis.
😂😂😂😂 think they were hiding it well 😂😂😂
 
I'll rephrase is as you're 100% correct. Ofcourse there will be English people who hate Scots. What I should have said is that I haven't met any. Not one. Or if they did hate me they hid it well. But I have met plenty of Scots who hate English people. And can I also point out the vast majority of English people, that I've met, couldn't care less if Scotland went independent or not. And the ones who do care actually want scotland to stay because they love the idea of the UK. Us all being one big union....and I'm talking about guys on site or the guy down the pub who isn't looking at the union the way the politicians are. They aren't thinking about tax on whiskey and haggis.

And that's great that you haven't met any English people who hate Scots mate but they do exist and it seems not every Scot has been as lucky as you have.

Also it's easy to love the idea of the UK/Union when it's your own country that dominates every part of it!

Would those guys still love it so much if....

It was being run from Scotland by politicians they didn't vote for and continuously rejected?

If no matter who they voted for their government was always decided by the electorate in Scotland?

If that government in Scotland only granted them partial control of their own country's fiscal powers and economy?

If that government in Scotland collected all of England's tax revenues, gave them just over half of that money back to run England then kept the rest for unspecified use?

If that government in Scotland then borrowed and spent billions of £'s on their behalf without the consent of England's devolved parliament, without any input from that parliament on where it gets spent then assigned England billions of £'s worth of debt without telling them where and what they spent that money on?

If every Scottish politician and that government in Scotland, after pocketing almost half of their country's tax revenues, after borrowing and spending billions of £'s on their behalf on fuck knows whit, after racking up billions of £'s of debt in their name and trillions of £'s overall then had the brass neck to continuously tell them that they aren't capable of running their own affairs and that their entire nation was only solvent because they are subsidised by Scotland?

If that government in Scotland decided to park the UK's nuclear arsenal 40 miles away from their most populated city?

I'm sure they guys would soon become disillusioned with the Union and quickly fall out of love with the whole idea of it if that☝️was the case!

As for those good English folk who don't care about Scotland going Independent or not...well more power to them...because unlike their country's politicians and some of their countrymen/women they have no interest in denying those Scots who do want Independence the right to choose.
 
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And that's great that you haven't met any English people who hate Scots mate but they do exist and it seems not every Scot has been as lucky as you have.

Also it's easy to love the idea of the UK/Union when it's your own country that dominates every part of it!

Would those guys still love it so much if....

It was being run from Scotland by politicians they didn't vote for and continuously rejected?

If no matter who they voted for their government was always decided by the electorate in Scotland?

If that government in Scotland only granted them partial control of their own country's fiscal powers and economy?

If that government in Scotland collected all of England's tax revenues, gave them just over half of that money back to run England then kept the rest for unspecified use?

If that government in Scotland then borrowed and spent billions of £'s on their behalf then assigned England billions of £'s worth of debt without telling them where and what they spent that money on?

If that government in Scotland, after taking and keeping almost half of their country's tax revenues as well as borrowing and spending billions of £'s on their behalf on fuck knows whit, then turned around and insulted them by telling them that their entire nation is subsidised by Scotland?

If that government in Scotland decided to park the UK's nuclear arsenal 40 miles away from their most populated city?

I'm sure they guys soon become disillusioned with the Union and quickly fall out of love with the whole idea if that☝️was the case!

As for those good English folk who don't care about Scotland going Independent or not...well more power to them...because unlike their country's politicians and some of their countrymen/women they have no interest in denying those Scots who do want Independence the right to choose.
im no so sure I ever met English people who hate scots

But I have met some who think scotland is full of clans :p:p:p:p

disrespectful English people are probably just as prevalent as most other small. minded people from many if not alll other countries

I dont hate English people
I just dont want to have a government selected for me by English peoples choice over ruling Scottish democracy

I dont even hate English governments but there have been some detestable uk politicians of all parties in positions of power whom I have disliked extremely

but thats same wit some Scots politicians

And some other world leaders of other countries

Politicians generally all give me the boak

but id rather have some power to vote out people who are not politically useful to Scotland

presently no matter who England votes for the weight of proportion is so great that it pretty much nullifies all Scottish votes rendering the democracy of scotland reliant on English votes

thats a big problem

scotland usually dont vote tory much

but it seems it means jack since tory gets the vote most often in England and that overrules Scottish democracy

useless

I couldn't care less if scotland democratically voted for tory

if it was the democratic will I accept it

but my whole life I never voted tory ever

and despite getting around 10 percent of votes in scotland we get tory rule

thats not democracy imo
 
With the greatest of respect Lubo to say the hatred is only ever one way just isn't true mate...there's no denying there's hatred of the English by some people in Scotland but I can assure you there's also no shortage of genuine hatred in England for the Scots.

I've worked all over down South and I've got family (who are English born and bred) that I normally visit a few times a year and I've both heard and have been on the receiving end of some shocking anti-Scottish sentiment while working and when out and about with the family so let's not kid ourselves that it's a one way street because both countries, like every other country in the world, has it's share of arseholes!

Hatred of the English might be a reason for some who want Independence (a stupid ignorant reason if you ask me) but the vast majority of Independence supporters only want what every other independent country in the world has....the ability to determine our own future as a country by making our own decisions based on the needs and aspirations of the people who live here and not for those decisions to be taken by a government in another country who have little to no interest in those needs and aspirations.

Also if the English only care about the Scots in the same way they care about the Spanish or the Italians or the Australians like you say then why is the Union so important to so many of them and why do so many of them get so bent out of shape at the thought of Scots wanting Independence?
I was in the army. Some of the best people I've ever come across are English. I have no issue with the majority of English people, it's the people at the top who are the problem
 
And that's great that you haven't met any English people who hate Scots mate but they do exist and it seems not every Scot has been as lucky as you have.

Also it's easy to love the idea of the UK/Union when it's your own country that dominates every part of it!

Would those guys still love it so much if....

It was being run from Scotland by politicians they didn't vote for and continuously rejected?

If no matter who they voted for their government was always decided by the electorate in Scotland?

If that government in Scotland only granted them partial control of their own country's fiscal powers and economy?

If that government in Scotland collected all of England's tax revenues, gave them just over half of that money back to run England then kept the rest for unspecified use?

If that government in Scotland then borrowed and spent billions of £'s on their behalf without the consent of England's devolved parliament, without any input from that parliament on where it gets spent then assigned England billions of £'s worth of debt without telling them where and what they spent that money on?

If every Scottish politician and that government in Scotland, after pocketing almost half of their country's tax revenues, after borrowing and spending billions of £'s on their behalf on fuck knows whit, after racking up billions of £'s of debt in their name and trillions of £'s overall then had the brass neck to continuously tell them that they aren't capable of running their own affairs and that their entire nation was only solvent because they are subsidised by Scotland?

If that government in Scotland decided to park the UK's nuclear arsenal 40 miles away from their most populated city?

I'm sure they guys would soon become disillusioned with the Union and quickly fall out of love with the whole idea of it if that☝️was the case!

As for those good English folk who don't care about Scotland going Independent or not...well more power to them...because unlike their country's politicians and some of their countrymen/women they have no interest in denying those Scots who do want Independence the right to choose.

Yep. You're probably right. I have no problem with people wanting independence at all. I'm on the fence.....for selfish reasons not political. I want to be able to travel to see my family easily. I want my daughters to feel connected to them...it upsets my 10 year old than people from her granny and grandas country don't like her and want to vote her away..and that's how she sees it not how I've told her to see it. I don't mind the independence chat from Scots...its the English bashing that I dislike. The "they are all the same, arrogant arseholes" attitude that I don't like. In general English people, that I've met, just want to get on with their lives. They have no interest in what the tartan tories North of the border are up to. I've even got an English mate who actually enjoyed braveheart!!!
 
I don't hate the English, I have English family, friends and colleagues and regularly visit several places there. I don't think folk vote independence because they hate the English just like I don't think all of those who voted for brexshit did so because they are racist. There are too many generalisations and a complete lack of understanding about why folk vote the way they do but I'd like to think most do it with some thought and educate themselves before just deciding what's best for them and not the country as a whole. The 'I'm alright Jacks' and to fuck with anyone else is what pisses me off.
 
I was in the army. Some of the best people I've ever come across are English. I have no issue with the majority of English people, it's the people at the top who are the problem

I don't doubt that for a second mate. I have family who are English born and bred...they're loud mad Mancs :LOL: but they're big hearted, kind and some of the warmest people you could ever wish to meet.

My point to Lubo was that any hatred that does exist between Scottish and English people isn't a one way street, sad as it is there are Scots who hate the English and English who hate the Scots, that hatred does flow both ways.

Only my opinion but how either of them can judge an entire nation of people based on the actions of a minority is a fucked up way of thinking.
 
Yep. You're probably right. I have no problem with people wanting independence at all. I'm on the fence.....for selfish reasons not political. I want to be able to travel to see my family easily. I want my daughters to feel connected to them...it upsets my 10 year old than people from her granny and grandas country don't like her and want to vote her away..and that's how she sees it not how I've told her to see it. I don't mind the independence chat from Scots...its the English bashing that I dislike. The "they are all the same, arrogant arseholes" attitude that I don't like. In general English people, that I've met, just want to get on with their lives. They have no interest in what the tartan tories North of the border are up to. I've even got an English mate who actually enjoyed braveheart!!!

Like I said I have family in England so I also want travel across the border to be easy mate but if the cost of flashing a passport at a border is the price I have to pay for people in Scotland to have more control over their own futures, the opportunity to offer their kids and families a better standard of life and the opportunity to have more of a say in how their country is run and who runs it then that's a price worth paying imo.

I also completely understand why you want your wee lassie to feel connected to her family in Scotland I don't think anybody on either side of the debate can't relate to that but there's no reason for her to be any less connected to them just because a political union comes to an end, Scotland will still be exactly where it is now.

It's genuinely heartbreaking to hear that your wee lassie feels the way she does Lubo, unfortunately weans don't understand the issues involved, why some people want this change and why others don't but that's why it's up to the adults on both sides to get a grip, at least try to understand one another's point of view and debate the issues properly. I just hope one day when she's older she understands that the people from her granny and granda's country weren't rejecting her or trying to vote her away but were instead trying to make life better for their own kids and families and that they truly believed independence for their country was the best way to do that.

I can't stand people hating on anybody because of their nationality either mate! Imo it's no different to hating people because of the colour of their skin or because of what god they do or don't pray to….it's ignorant, irrational and fucking moronic! But far too often in this debate people's dislike and rejection of the undemocratic and corrupt UK political establishment gets conveniently twisted into a bullshit anti-English narrative in an effort to deflect from some uncomfortable truths and questions about how unequal this Union is.

As for the Tartan Tories thing…I've never really understood this comment. Scottish voters have consistently rejected the Tories at every election since 1955 so if the SNP were Tartan Tories then there would be no chance of those Scottish voters continuously voting them into power. Plus even the slightest glance at SNP policies would clearly show they're on the political left.

Not saying you have to like them mate, fuck they are barely clinging to my vote and I'm fully signed up to the idea of Independence, but for all the SNP's faults (and there are many) the one thing they're not guilty of is being Tories! None of us up here would ever vote for them if they were! :LOL:
 

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