transfer window

Of the players we bought I truly believe these ones will soon mature into dependable regulars

* Lagerbielke Nawrocki *

Iwata Holm Bernardo *

Tilio * Palma Yang

Left out Kwon ( I haven't seen enough of him) and big Nathan coz there is no option to buy. I believe Brendan HAS accepted our business model and trusts the scouts to be unearthing genuine emerging talents and I am declaring myself satisfied that |Celtic have done their best in this window
Welcome back Ghostie - it has been a wee while. I hope all is well.

I hope you are right. There is definitely a bit of potential in those players you've highlighted. Yang has been most impressive so far, but the others look decent. I guess we'll find out in the coming years just how many of them will make it with us.

Hoping 1 or 2 start tomorrow in a memorable skelping of the forces of darkness.
 
Not sure how things will go tomorrow. They are not any great shakes as evidenced by the showing against PSV. But we have looked far from impressive in the last couple of games and seem to have the knack of producing shit performances when least needed.
✌️✌️
Not just PSV ,they struggled against a Servette side that couldn't string 3 passes together.My biggest concern tomorrow is how the new guys react to the hostile atmosphere.They will come out fast so we'll need to stay switched on and keep it tight early on .Their defence is a joke so we will get our chances and hopefully we will take them!
 
Welcome back Ghostie - it has been a wee while. I hope all is well.

I hope you are right. There is definitely a bit of potential in those players you've highlighted. Yang has been most impressive so far, but the others look decent. I guess we'll find out in the coming years just how many of them will make it with us.

Hoping 1 or 2 start tomorrow in a memorable skelping of the forces of darkness.
🫰🫰🫰🍀 Good to be back, all's well ( till I get behind the sofa for the game 😱 ) :ROFLMAO:
 
Of the players we bought I truly believe these ones will soon mature into dependable regulars

* Lagerbielke Nawrocki *

Iwata Holm Bernardo *

Tilio * Palma Yang

Left out Kwon ( I haven't seen enough of him) and big Nathan coz there is no option to buy. I believe Brendan HAS accepted our business model and trusts the scouts to be unearthing genuine emerging talents and I am declaring myself satisfied that |Celtic have done their best in this window
What is the business model? To buy young players , develop them and punt for a profit.
To what end? What is the point in having millions in the bank if not to improve the team
 
What is the business model? To buy young players , develop them and punt for a profit.
To what end? What is the point in having millions in the bank if not to improve the team
It seems to me that’s the only point nowadays.
A once great football institution turned into a football factory by those in charge
Happy with just getting into groups
Not giving a fuck when we’re taken apart at the top level
 
What is the business model? To buy young players , develop them and punt for a profit.
To what end? What is the point in having millions in the bank if not to improve the team
As we all know, this business model of buy low, develop and sell higher is supposed to be a long-term strategy to progress the club to a higher level using a sustainable financial regime.

You buy a player for £2-3m, sell for £6-7m, upgrade with a player costing £4-5m, sell for £10m, replace with a £7m player, sell for £15m, etc, etc. Obviously you'd have some failures where you lose out and some successes where you sell for much higher.

But it is like our recruitment team are stuck on the first page and never turned over to read the other side. We are buying cheap, selling high, then replacing with another project who costs the same as the first player. We then horde the profit in the bank and reward our board members with bonuses rather than reinvest the profit to push the playing side onto a higher level.

Now I am not naive to think that we can reach the latter stages of the Champions League. But it would be nice to compete and not worry about being thrashed when facing up to the richest clubs. And possibly get into the later stages of the Europa League.
 
Of the players we bought I truly believe these ones will soon mature into dependable regulars

* Lagerbielke Nawrocki *

Iwata Holm Bernardo *

Tilio * Palma Yang

Left out Kwon ( I haven't seen enough of him) and big Nathan coz there is no option to buy. I believe Brendan HAS accepted our business model and trusts the scouts to be unearthing genuine emerging talents and I am declaring myself satisfied that |Celtic have done their best in this window
I love your optimism, Ghostie. I also feel your point about some of our buys "soon" maturing into dependable players has a better than decent chance of coming to fruition.

Sadly however,I feel that only confirms the fact that they are projects. I've noticed a number of our fellow Noisers declaring a degree of satisfaction with our transfer activity. That's absolutely fine; but for me, I don't see the immediate improvement I was very much hoping for.

Goes without saying I guess, but I will be the happiest bhoy in the history of bhoyness if my face gets covered in egg !
 
As we all know, this business model of buy low, develop and sell higher is supposed to be a long-term strategy to progress the club to a higher level using a sustainable financial regime.

You buy a player for £2-3m, sell for £6-7m, upgrade with a player costing £4-5m, sell for £10m, replace with a £7m player, sell for £15m, etc, etc. Obviously you'd have some failures where you lose out and some successes where you sell for much higher.

But it is like our recruitment team are stuck on the first page and never turned over to read the other side. We are buying cheap, selling high, then replacing with another project who costs the same as the first player. We then horde the profit in the bank and reward our board members with bonuses rather than reinvest the profit to push the playing side onto a higher level.

Now I am not naive to think that we can reach the latter stages of the Champions League. But it would be nice to compete and not worry about being thrashed when facing up to the richest clubs. And possibly get into the later stages of the Europa League.
It makes no sense but at least we beat sevco in front of all their fans
 
As we all know, this business model of buy low, develop and sell higher is supposed to be a long-term strategy to progress the club to a higher level using a sustainable financial regime.

You buy a player for £2-3m, sell for £6-7m, upgrade with a player costing £4-5m, sell for £10m, replace with a £7m player, sell for £15m, etc, etc. Obviously you'd have some failures where you lose out and some successes where you sell for much higher.

But it is like our recruitment team are stuck on the first page and never turned over to read the other side. We are buying cheap, selling high, then replacing with another project who costs the same as the first player. We then horde the profit in the bank and reward our board members with bonuses rather than reinvest the profit to push the playing side onto a higher level.

Now I am not naive to think that we can reach the latter stages of the Champions League. But it would be nice to compete and not worry about being thrashed when facing up to the richest clubs. And possibly get into the later stages of the Europa League.
7m signings usually come with much larger wage demands than 3 m signings

So in theory it looks possible to trade up better players if you get good prices for certain prospects.

But the bottleneck is wages.

The more the wages the bigger the guaranteed income must be to prevent devaluing your players by having no working capital (money in bank each month to pay bills as the arrive). thats the problem sevco have. they cant get good prices for players when they are onth to month needing to top up cash to pay bills.

This leads to needing to sell assets for less than you might get if your working capital is secured without external funding.

And with the excessive inflation on wages the jump in wage requirements for 7m market signings jumps massively.

So on face of it, in theory you can buy more expensive players if you have funds available. But if you are exceeding your income on wages quickly you will dissolve your funds in a hidden manner and most fans dont see that part of the game.

We have 10 million so buy a 10 million player who makes team better.

Not so easy in practise

As 10 million signings dont always come with synergy to team to instantly make team better and their wage demands might mean paying more to players in squad who are at least as value added to team.

This extra wage demands will further put pressures on the depletion of funds in hidden way.

So unless you have increased income guarantee (to at least offset the lack of 100million from sky your competition gets every season) you wont be able to sustain these players at club. growth ends and you need to sell often at unfavourable terms to balance books to allow growth to grow.

Thats why imo

Sky funding their chosen teams with arbitrary payments is the problem. Doesnt matter if more people watch Celtic on tv than lower epl teams. The payments go to the teams tv rights wants stronger.

That 100M at least (every year and growing rapidly) income guarantee means they can outbid you on wages for higher grade value players

Which makes the risks much much higher for teams who dont get the tv bungs. This limits you to buying unknown gems which are getting rarer to find and if you pay 3 million for potential gem it looks on superficial side that club are not ambitious.

But being ambitious by buying market approved upgrades have huge hidden wage problems.

therefore imo

Without the guaranteed income to compete at CL levels we will need to rely on superior scouting and players who are willing to play at our modest (in cl terms) wage structures.

Which top talent is willing to sign for top UK club but get Scottish level wages? when they can get more joining sky funded club with less stress?

So theory says you can now buy more expensive players if you have funds
But practise in inflation wages means you probably cant grow if you exceed your working capital requirement (ie the cash available to pay bills as they fall- ie the reason sevco cant get good prices for their players even if they were any good which they arent despite media trying to pull wool over eyes)
 
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7m signings usually come with much larger wage demands than 3 m signings

So in theory it looks possible to trade up better players if you get good prices for certain prospects.

But the bottleneck is wages.

The more the wages the bigger the guaranteed income must be to prevent devaluing your players by having no working capital (money in bank each month to pay bills as the arrive). thats the problem sevco have. they cant get good prices for players when they are onth to month needing to top up cash to pay bills.

This leads to needing to sell assets for less than you might get if your working capital is secured without external funding.

And with the excessive inflation on wages the jump in wage requirements for 7m market signings jumps massively.

So on face of it, in theory you can buy more expensive players if you have funds available. But if you are exceeding your income on wages quickly you will dissolve your funds in a hidden manner and most fans dont see that part of the game.

We have 10 million so buy a 10 million player who makes team better.

Not so easy in practise

As 10 million signings dont always come with synergy to team to instantly make team better and their wage demands might mean paying more to players in squad who are at least as value added to team.

This extra wage demands will further put pressures on the depletion of funds in hidden way.

So unless you have increased income guarantee (to at least offset the lack of 100million from sky your competition gets every season) you wont be able to sustain these players at club. growth ends and you need to sell often at unfavourable terms to balance books to allow growth to grow.

Thats why imo

Sky funding their chosen teams with arbitrary payments is the problem. Doesnt matter if more people watch Celtic on tv than lower epl teams. The payments go to the teams tv rights wants stronger.

That 100M at least (every year and growing rapidly) income guarantee means they can outbid you on wages for higher grade value players

Which makes the risks much much higher for teams who dont get the tv bungs. This limits you to buying unknown gems which are getting rarer to find and if you pay 3 million for potential gem it looks on superficial side that club are not ambitious.

But being ambitious by buying market approved upgrades have huge hidden wage problems.

therefore imo

Without the guaranteed income to compete at CL levels we will need to rely on superior scouting and players who are willing to play at our modest (in cl terms) wage structures.

Which top talent is willing to sign for top UK club but get Scottish level wages? when they can get more joining sky funded club with less stress?

So theory says you can now buy more expensive players if you have funds
But practise in inflation wages means you probably cant grow if you exceed your working capital requirement (ie the cash available to pay bills as they fall- ie the reason sevco cant get good prices for their players even if they were any good which they arent despite media trying to pull wool over eyes)
Many good points, TT. I actually think most of us would agree with the basic rule driving the club's thinking. If we need an example of how not to run a club, then, think sevco.

However I do believe there's scope for goin' just a touch further. I'm not talking about gambling outrageously with the stability of the club.

I think we would all agree that playing our football in Scotland holds us back because , as you correctly say, we're simply not at the table when TV money is being splashed around.

Equally, though, playing here almost guarantees some level of European football. While I would agree that it's always prudent not to spend money before we actually have it in the bank, I also think once we've qualified, and therefore know the money IS guaranteed, gives us just that little bit more leeway.

In summary, I do feel we could be touch more ambitious, without being
kamikaze, with our signings.

I guess it's easy for us sitting on the outside to criticise the powers that be; but with even greater amounts of filthy lucre available in next season's CL, I feel a touch more ambition in the window just closed would've been justified.
 
7m signings usually come with much larger wage demands than 3 m signings

So in theory it looks possible to trade up better players if you get good prices for certain prospects.

But the bottleneck is wages.

The more the wages the bigger the guaranteed income must be to prevent devaluing your players by having no working capital (money in bank each month to pay bills as the arrive). thats the problem sevco have. they cant get good prices for players when they are onth to month needing to top up cash to pay bills.

This leads to needing to sell assets for less than you might get if your working capital is secured without external funding.

And with the excessive inflation on wages the jump in wage requirements for 7m market signings jumps massively.

So on face of it, in theory you can buy more expensive players if you have funds available. But if you are exceeding your income on wages quickly you will dissolve your funds in a hidden manner and most fans dont see that part of the game.

We have 10 million so buy a 10 million player who makes team better.

Not so easy in practise

As 10 million signings dont always come with synergy to team to instantly make team better and their wage demands might mean paying more to players in squad who are at least as value added to team.

This extra wage demands will further put pressures on the depletion of funds in hidden way.

So unless you have increased income guarantee (to at least offset the lack of 100million from sky your competition gets every season) you wont be able to sustain these players at club. growth ends and you need to sell often at unfavourable terms to balance books to allow growth to grow.

Thats why imo

Sky funding their chosen teams with arbitrary payments is the problem. Doesnt matter if more people watch Celtic on tv than lower epl teams. The payments go to the teams tv rights wants stronger.

That 100M at least (every year and growing rapidly) income guarantee means they can outbid you on wages for higher grade value players

Which makes the risks much much higher for teams who dont get the tv bungs. This limits you to buying unknown gems which are getting rarer to find and if you pay 3 million for potential gem it looks on superficial side that club are not ambitious.

But being ambitious by buying market approved upgrades have huge hidden wage problems.

therefore imo

Without the guaranteed income to compete at CL levels we will need to rely on superior scouting and players who are willing to play at our modest (in cl terms) wage structures.

Which top talent is willing to sign for top UK club but get Scottish level wages? when they can get more joining sky funded club with less stress?

So theory says you can now buy more expensive players if you have funds
But practise in inflation wages means you probably cant grow if you exceed your working capital requirement (ie the cash available to pay bills as they fall- ie the reason sevco cant get good prices for their players even if they were any good which they arent despite media trying to pull wool over eyes)
That is why I said you'd have sold the previous guy for say £10m and then spend £7m on the the replacement. You are using the profit to pay for the higher transfer and the higher wages of the new player. Rather than pay ~8 projects (with too many of them being sold off having contributed very little to our club) say £5K-£12K per week when you can be paying 3 better players £15-£30K per week. Because we have far too many projects and all our matches are high pressure/must win games then it is difficult to develop more than just a few of them and so there is so much wasted talent we bought for a couple of million and pay them for a year or two and then offload for a pittance, which is money just pissed up against the wall.

We all get the issue of TV money from Sky - we don't get those riches so just deal with what we have got. So no need to keep focusing on something we do not have. So we won't attract the top talent, but we can attract better IMO. I do understand how a very successful business model works - not just on paper but in the real world.

To say we cannot afford this strategy when we are reporting operating profits of several £million practically every single financial year (excluding the seasons affected by Covid) is not strictly true. Again, to emphasise, no-one is suggesting that we go down the Deadco/sevco route of over-spending, but to spend a bit more on strengthening the playing team.
 
That is why I said you'd have sold the previous guy for say £10m and then spend £7m on the the replacement. You are using the profit to pay for the higher transfer and the higher wages of the new player. Rather than pay ~8 projects (with too many of them being sold off having contributed very little to our club) say £5K-£12K per week when you can be paying 3 better players £15-£30K per week. Because we have far too many projects and all our matches are high pressure/must win games then it is difficult to develop more than just a few of them and so there is so much wasted talent we bought for a couple of million and pay them for a year or two and then offload for a pittance, which is money just pissed up against the wall.

We all get the issue of TV money from Sky - we don't get those riches so just deal with what we have got. So no need to keep focusing on something we do not have. So we won't attract the top talent, but we can attract better IMO. I do understand how a very successful business model works - not just on paper but in the real world.

To say we cannot afford this strategy when we are reporting operating profits of several £million practically every single financial year (excluding the seasons affected by Covid) is not strictly true. Again, to emphasise, no-one is suggesting that we go down the Deadco/sevco route of over-spending, but to spend a bit more on strengthening the playing team.
It seems like we have to go round in circles over and over m8
The arguments pretty simple for me.
Fuck sky money, silly wages etc.
That’s a cop out and it’s not even worth the time as there’s only 1 Celtic fan discussing that over and over and that’s our good friend TET.

It comes down to ambition
Do you want your club to better than last season.
Is success now viewed as making profit on a player.
Are we just a player conveyor belt.
Is our limit on transfers the odd 4 million signing ?
Are our standards now set so low by the people in charge

We were supposed to be a season on in terms of CL experience but it now looks to me as though we’re now about to go through a virgin season with half the team all over again
And some of these guys have only played their first big game in a Celtic jersey … they did decent though no more than decent
 
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It seems like we have to go round in circles over and over m8
The arguments pretty simple for me.
Fuck sky money, silly wages etc.
That’s a cop out and it’s not even worth the time as there’s only 1 Celtic fan discussing that over and over and that’s our good friend TET.

It comes down to ambition
Do you want your club to better than last season.
Is success now viewed as making profit on a player.
Are we just a player conveyor belt.
Is our limit on transfers the odd 4 million signing ?
Are our standards now set so low by the people in charge

We were supposed to be a drain on in terms of CL experience but it now looks to me as though we’re now about to go through a virgin season with half the team all over again
And some of these guys have only played their first big game in a Celtic jersey … they did decent though no more than decent
The question I would post
Imagine that yesterdays team was to face any of or group opponents away … I shudder to think and they’re not even top level opponents
 
That is why I said you'd have sold the previous guy for say £10m and then spend £7m on the the replacement. You are using the profit to pay for the higher transfer and the higher wages of the new player. Rather than pay ~8 projects (with too many of them being sold off having contributed very little to our club) say £5K-£12K per week when you can be paying 3 better players £15-£30K per week. Because we have far too many projects and all our matches are high pressure/must win games then it is difficult to develop more than just a few of them and so there is so much wasted talent we bought for a couple of million and pay them for a year or two and then offload for a pittance, which is money just pissed up against the wall.

We all get the issue of TV money from Sky - we don't get those riches so just deal with what we have got. So no need to keep focusing on something we do not have. So we won't attract the top talent, but we can attract better IMO. I do understand how a very successful business model works - not just on paper but in the real world.

To say we cannot afford this strategy when we are reporting operating profits of several £million practically every single financial year (excluding the seasons affected by Covid) is not strictly true. Again, to emphasise, no-one is suggesting that we go down the Deadco/sevco route of over-spending, but to spend a bit more on strengthening the playing team.
But the problem lies in
1 Does the player want to play in Scotland for a wage lower than he can get elsewhere? And what is the cut off point for that wage?
2 Is the 7million signing definately going to increase in value? risk factors increased.
3 Does his wage mean you need to upgrade the top wage earners at club?


I think club can afford some higher wages for certain but is the amount we can offer tempting enough to get it over line or do they need to match the wage offers they can get from lower rated EPL wage clubs

I think they do try sign these higher grade players but I suspect that unless we significantly ramp up the wages on offer they arent interested in a league to wont add much to their already better quality unless they are prospects who need experience.

If they are signed first team ready then they are unlikely to get much more added to their value. And if your now in a position where you are losing money week on week through drip effect of higher wage overall that can only be replenished if you can sell them for much more then your going backwards if their selling value is diminshed coz you are struggling to make payroll.

And their value to other clubs might not come with the premium we expect. And if your struggling to make payroll you might even need to take massive hit to get them off the books.

personally I think you need to be buying CL ready players to cope with CL teams

And even if we could afford them

I dont think the Scottish league puts them in a position to cope with that massive jump in class of opposition even if we are in form.


its rock and hard place.

Prospects can increase in value much more than first team ready players. And the smaller increments on their sales value potential

And the first team ready CL quality players are going to be getting wage offers that would be too much imo

And I dont think there anything less than CL ready players will improve our chances in slightest at CL levels

And the fact the rest of teams in Scotland are gash its unlikely you will ever be able to grow when your wage bills are exceeding the income expectaions of our club.

Calmac and few others of our team could quite easily be earning double maybe even much more elsewhere. But they are happy here I think.

But if you sign a CL ready player and lets say you giive him 60k and he accepts that even though he could earn 120K at mid table epl side you probably need to give our current CL ready players the same wage to prevent discontent.

And if you think there are players out there who are CL ready and capable of significantly improving our odds of qualifying for KO stages then willing to play for reasonable wages at Celtic its most probable another CL side will be offering him more to bolster their squad.

In theory its possible
But I think its very unlikely

Mostly because they arent interested in Scottish football with its injury risks and lower wages and higher stress.

Iactually think if they were available and we could make em offer they would accept then our board would buy them.

I just dont think anybody other than prospects hoping to get to big leagues are interested at wages we can afford.

I dont think its a lack of ambition
I think its the market premiums both wage and price of first team ready players with gumption to succed at Celtic stress levels is the problem

40 million is sweety money to most CL clubs

But our fans expect to compete with billion dollar teams and afford first team ready players with what in relative terms is pittance.

Our huge support at noise and passion on euro nights gives us fighting chance at home.

But the inflation rates of players and their wages especially for first team starters at CL quality means these tiny little profits we make occassionally wont cut it at the elite end of european football.

there is room imo for better wage offers but is it enough to get better than what we have without increasing wages of all our players who arent getting what they could earn elsewhere?

And if im honest without billions I dont think we will ever be competing beyond Europa league levels

Scottish football is not a good place these days to prepare against best teams in europe anymore and its getting harder eery year we dont get the massive bungs from tv
 
It seems like we have to go round in circles over and over m8
The arguments pretty simple for me.
Fuck sky money, silly wages etc.
That’s a cop out and it’s not even worth the time as there’s only 1 Celtic fan discussing that over and over and that’s our good friend TET.

It comes down to ambition
Do you want your club to better than last season.
Is success now viewed as making profit on a player.
Are we just a player conveyor belt.
Is our limit on transfers the odd 4 million signing ?
Are our standards now set so low by the people in charge

We were supposed to be a season on in terms of CL experience but it now looks to me as though we’re now about to go through a virgin season with half the team all over again
And some of these guys have only played their first big game in a Celtic jersey … they did decent though no more than decent
I want club to be better
I want them signing first team ready players
I dont think they want to come for plethora of reasons that are beyond control of board

Ambition doesnt come into it

its the wages for players who can and will upgrade team that we cannot match beyond what we are doing.

Ambition in CL costs billions. its that simple.

And destabilising club with guys who arent going to earn you any more points than we currently are capable is not ambition

its throwing money doon a hole. like sevco keep doing.
 
Many good points, TT. I actually think most of us would agree with the basic rule driving the club's thinking. If we need an example of how not to run a club, then, think sevco.

However I do believe there's scope for goin' just a touch further. I'm not talking about gambling outrageously with the stability of the club.

I think we would all agree that playing our football in Scotland holds us back because , as you correctly say, we're simply not at the table when TV money is being splashed around.

Equally, though, playing here almost guarantees some level of European football. While I would agree that it's always prudent not to spend money before we actually have it in the bank, I also think once we've qualified, and therefore know the money IS guaranteed, gives us just that little bit more leeway.

In summary, I do feel we could be touch more ambitious, without being
kamikaze, with our signings.

I guess it's easy for us sitting on the outside to criticise the powers that be; but with even greater amounts of filthy lucre available in next season's CL, I feel a touch more ambition in the window just closed would've been justified.
the even greater amounts of filthy lucre is sweety money to most of the CL opposition. it will only help Team in scotland who wins league to get further ahead of rest of scottish football

And all scottish football will need to make do with potential prospects or guys who wont make blind bit of difference at CL levels. What gives celtic chance at CL levels is the huge support at game. And even the potential projects hae chance to raise their game in that atmosphere if tactics are good and chances are buried.

And if any new signing no matter how much he costs cant cut it here and even 20 million players can fall into that category

you can be in deep doodoo very quickly.
 
the even greater amounts of filthy lucre is sweety money to most of the CL opposition. it will only help Team in scotland who wins league to get further ahead of rest of scottish football

And all scottish football will need to make do with potential prospects or guys who wont make blind bit of difference at CL levels. What gives celtic chance at CL levels is the huge support at game. And even the potential projects hae chance to raise their game in that atmosphere if tactics are good and chances are buried.

And if any new signing no matter how much he costs cant cut it here and even 20 million players can fall into that category

you can be in deep doodoo very quickly.
Think I posted something similar a while back. The rivalry between ourselves and whit's their name is pretty much the name of the game now. The Saudi thing changes it for everyone though.
 

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