Celtic in Stock Exchange Update,

R

Ray

Well-known member
Blue chip investment firm from the City of London increased their stake to 18,45%,the firm,Lindsell Train ,is now second biggest shareholder ,behind Dermot Desmond,!!!!!!they now own 17 million shares,this just confirmed this morning in Stock Exchange,Covering the two years Rodgers completed the turnover increased to £192.21 million! That’s an increase of£89.12 million when Deila was in charge ,would say everything is beginning to look rosey,but will we see any investment in players,.that is the big question now,hh
 
Ray said:
Blue chip investment firm from the City of London increased their stake to 18,45%,the firm,Lindsell Train ,is now second biggest shareholder ,behind Dermot Desmond,!!!!!!they now own 17 million shares,this just confirmed this morning in Stock Exchange,Covering the two years Rodgers completed the turnover increased to £192.21 million! That’s an increase of£89.12 million when Deila was in charge ,would say everything is beginning to look rosey,but will we see any investment in players,.that is the big question now,hh
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Far from it were a cash rich club think wolf of wall street
 
Ray said:
Blue chip investment firm from the City of London increased their stake to 18,45%,the firm,Lindsell Train ,is now second biggest shareholder ,behind Dermot Desmond,!!!!!!they now own 17 million shares,this just confirmed this morning in Stock Exchange,Covering the two years Rodgers completed the turnover increased to £192.21 million! That’s an increase of£89.12 million when Deila was in charge ,would say everything is beginning to look rosey,but will we see any investment in players,.that is the big question now,hh
Click to expand...
Ray, we’re not going to see any new external investment into the club. We’re not selling new shares other than those for executive compensation plans.

Also Lindsell Train is a brokerage firm, and they also manage mutual funds. So they’re not the actual beneficial owner of our shares.

Lastly, maybe this is just a coincidence, but the ownership stake is almost identical to what BNY Mellon reported on the last set of annual accounts. That would either mean DD, BNY Mellon, and Lindsell collectively own 2/3 of our shares, or more likely is that the ultimate owner of the shares previously held at BNY Mellon changed their custodian to Lindsell.

Given that Lindsell wasn’t even listed as a large shareholder on the last set of account, combined with the minuscule trading volume on the exchange, it would be darn near impossible for them (or anyone else) to acquire that large of a stake in that short of a time period. It just doesn’t make any sense.
 
Perhaps i can help clear some things up. I worked as an investment banker for 30 years on Wall Street with frequent dealings in The City as well. I am now retired but am very familiar with what is going on here and on interpreting the finances of Celtic [and the Huns :-.)] and chat with James from time to time on such matters.

1. BNY Mellon is CUSTODIAN of the shares for Lindsell Train's accounts. So in due course the extra 1.5 percent or so Lindell Train bought on the 27 will show on the shareholders list under BNY Mellon. That is the way reporting works.

2. While Lindsell Train's CLIENTS are the actual owners of these shares, Lindsell Train has full discretionary authority to buy, sell and vote the shares. As they are the decision makers they are the entity that matters. The people that actually own them cannot exert any control over them and may not even know they own them according to the contract they signed with Lindell to manage their money.

3. This is an incremental purchase to take them from 17 to 18 plus per cent rather than a new investment. It is nice to see but doesn't really change much, as Lindsell Train has been building up its shares for over ten years. Presumably, they will take their holding in time to just under 20 per cent. Current regulations make it difficult to go over 20 per cent without triggering a bid for the remaining shares ala David King at Sevco. So there will be no substantial injection of capital from Lindell in the future, although they would likely top up their holdings in a share issue to keep their percentage ownership intact. These shares just purchased were not bought from treasury but on the exchange so no new money will accrue to Celtic by the purchase..it will go to the shareholder who sold the stock.

4. In reading Lindsell's discussion of its interest in Celtic, I view having them as a shareholder as a significant positive. They have owned their shares since 2008 and therefore are clearly, as they say, in for the long haul and not as opportunists. Further, they clearly see ways in which we can enhance revenues and are in the shares because they see the potential to realize those revenue increases. This is important. If they believed Celtic was going to stay where it is and not advance in strength they would be focused more on cash on hand and keeping costs in check. Having a large shareholder with a significant strategic vision alongside Dermot is a huge positive because they will push him to remain aggressive. Dermot seems to alternate between being aggressive and retrenching.

5. It is usual for somebody with that many shares to have a seat on the board. It is possible that one or two of the directors were nominated for selection by Lindell. If not, 18 per cent should mean that they will get somebody on the board soon. I don't know if they do or they don't but will make it my business to find out at the earliest opportunity.

6.You can rest assured that they know Desmond and Lawwell very well, speak to them at least monthly on the phone and know a great deal about what is going on with the club. Lawwell likely discusses any substantial decisions with them although likely only after he has made them and announcements have been made.

7, Here is a quote from Lindsell to outline their philosophy about holding the shares:

"There is a diaspora of potential Celtic supporters from Scottish Catholics around the world that follow the club vicariously.

“If ever Celtic were to tap into that supporter base more, or could morph their media rights from just the Scottish Premiership into something bigger, then the revenues of the company could double or triple very quickly.”

He added: “So nothing much is going to change with Celtic in terms of the revenues it earns today if it doesn’t change its league structure – and there are no prospects of it doing so as far as I can see.

But I wouldn’t be surprised if the agenda from the owners over the very long term is to get things changed.

“If that was ever a likely event the value of the franchise would be enormous.”

What I take from that is that they would like to see Celtic leave Scotland and join the EPL or a North Atlantic League or something. This is a big reason why they hold the stock They also clearly want the club to maximize revenues, which means continuing to push in Europe for better and more remunerative results. This are both things that I hope will eventually happen....and I think many if not all of us are in agreement.

CONCLUSION: Nothing to worry about. they are good shareholders to have and will help us go forward.

Disclaimer: I do not know anybody at Lindsell and had never heard of them before yesterday when I started familiarizing myself with them because i was curious. So I can safely assure you that I hold no bias.
 
manhattan fenian bastard said:
Perhaps i can help clear some things up. I worked as an investment banker for 30 years on Wall Street with frequent dealings in The City as well. I am now retired but am very familiar with what is going on here and on interpreting the finances of Celtic [and the Huns :-.)] and chat with James from time to time on such matters.

1. BNY Mellon is CUSTODIAN of the shares for Lindsell Train's accounts. So in due course the extra 1.5 percent or so Lindell Train bought on the 27 will show on the shareholders list under BNY Mellon. That is the way reporting works.

2. While Lindsell Train's CLIENTS are the actual owners of these shares, Lindsell Train has full discretionary authority to buy, sell and vote the shares. As they are the decision makers they are the entity that matters. The people that actually own them cannot exert any control over them and may not even know they own them according to the contract they signed with Lindell to manage their money.

3. This is an incremental purchase to take them from 17 to 18 plus per cent rather than a new investment. It is nice to see but doesn't really change much, as Lindsell Train has been building up its shares for over ten years. Presumably, they will take their holding in time to just under 20 per cent. Current regulations make it difficult to go over 20 per cent without triggering a bid for the remaining shares ala David King at Sevco. So there will be no substantial injection of capital from Lindell in the future, although they would likely top up their holdings in a share issue to keep their percentage ownership intact. These shares just purchased were not bought from treasury but on the exchange so no new money will accrue to Celtic by the purchase..it will go to the shareholder who sold the stock.

4. In reading Lindsell's discussion of its interest in Celtic, I view having them as a shareholder as a significant positive. They have owned their shares since 2008 and therefore are clearly, as they say, in for the long haul and not as opportunists. Further, they clearly see ways in which we can enhance revenues and are in the shares because they see the potential to realize those revenue increases. This is important. If they believed Celtic was going to stay where it is and not advance in strength they would be focused more on cash on hand and keeping costs in check. Having a large shareholder with a significant strategic vision alongside Dermot is a huge positive because they will push him to remain aggressive. Dermot seems to alternate between being aggressive and retrenching.

5. It is usual for somebody with that many shares to have a seat on the board. It is possible that one or two of the directors were nominated for selection by Lindell. If not, 18 per cent should mean that they will get somebody on the board soon. I don't know if they do or they don't but will make it my business to find out at the earliest opportunity.

6.You can rest assured that they know Desmond and Lawwell very well, speak to them at least monthly on the phone and know a great deal about what is going on with the club. Lawwell likely discusses any substantial decisions with them although likely only after he has made them and announcements have been made.

7, Here is a quote from Lindsell to outline their philosophy about holding the shares:

"There is a diaspora of potential Celtic supporters from Scottish Catholics around the world that follow the club vicariously.

“If ever Celtic were to tap into that supporter base more, or could morph their media rights from just the Scottish Premiership into something bigger, then the revenues of the company could double or triple very quickly.”

He added: “So nothing much is going to change with Celtic in terms of the revenues it earns today if it doesn’t change its league structure – and there are no prospects of it doing so as far as I can see.

But I wouldn’t be surprised if the agenda from the owners over the very long term is to get things changed.

“If that was ever a likely event the value of the franchise would be enormous.”

What I take from that is that they would like to see Celtic leave Scotland and join the EPL or a North Atlantic League or something. This is a big reason why they hold the stock They also clearly want the club to maximize revenues, which means continuing to push in Europe for better and more remunerative results. This are both things that I hope will eventually happen....and I think many if not all of us are in agreement.

CONCLUSION: Nothing to worry about. they are good shareholders to have and will help us go forward.

Disclaimer: I do not know anybody at Lindsell and had never heard of them before yesterday when I started familiarizing myself with them because i was curious. So I can safely assure you that I hold no bias.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the insights Fenian Bastard ;)

I myself am a CFA charterholder and suspected something along the lines of what you explained.

Also worth noting that there have been a lot of conversions lately of preferred shares into ordinary shares. I’m not sure if this is Lindsell again, but that would make sense.

In the grand scheme of things, this is all ‘fake news’ IMO. If these guys have been long term shareholders, and they’re increasing their stake by 0.1% or 0.2% which is what this appears to be, that’s not really newsworthy.
 
manhattan fenian bastard said:
Perhaps i can help clear some things up. I worked as an investment banker for 30 years on Wall Street with frequent dealings in The City as well. I am now retired but am very familiar with what is going on here and on interpreting the finances of Celtic [and the Huns :-.)] and chat with James from time to time on such matters.

1. BNY Mellon is CUSTODIAN of the shares for Lindsell Train's accounts. So in due course the extra 1.5 percent or so Lindell Train bought on the 27 will show on the shareholders list under BNY Mellon. That is the way reporting works.

2. While Lindsell Train's CLIENTS are the actual owners of these shares, Lindsell Train has full discretionary authority to buy, sell and vote the shares. As they are the decision makers they are the entity that matters. The people that actually own them cannot exert any control over them and may not even know they own them according to the contract they signed with Lindell to manage their money.

3. This is an incremental purchase to take them from 17 to 18 plus per cent rather than a new investment. It is nice to see but doesn't really change much, as Lindsell Train has been building up its shares for over ten years. Presumably, they will take their holding in time to just under 20 per cent. Current regulations make it difficult to go over 20 per cent without triggering a bid for the remaining shares ala David King at Sevco. So there will be no substantial injection of capital from Lindell in the future, although they would likely top up their holdings in a share issue to keep their percentage ownership intact. These shares just purchased were not bought from treasury but on the exchange so no new money will accrue to Celtic by the purchase..it will go to the shareholder who sold the stock.

4. In reading Lindsell's discussion of its interest in Celtic, I view having them as a shareholder as a significant positive. They have owned their shares since 2008 and therefore are clearly, as they say, in for the long haul and not as opportunists. Further, they clearly see ways in which we can enhance revenues and are in the shares because they see the potential to realize those revenue increases. This is important. If they believed Celtic was going to stay where it is and not advance in strength they would be focused more on cash on hand and keeping costs in check. Having a large shareholder with a significant strategic vision alongside Dermot is a huge positive because they will push him to remain aggressive. Dermot seems to alternate between being aggressive and retrenching.

5. It is usual for somebody with that many shares to have a seat on the board. It is possible that one or two of the directors were nominated for selection by Lindell. If not, 18 per cent should mean that they will get somebody on the board soon. I don't know if they do or they don't but will make it my business to find out at the earliest opportunity.

6.You can rest assured that they know Desmond and Lawwell very well, speak to them at least monthly on the phone and know a great deal about what is going on with the club. Lawwell likely discusses any substantial decisions with them although likely only after he has made them and announcements have been made.

7, Here is a quote from Lindsell to outline their philosophy about holding the shares:

"There is a diaspora of potential Celtic supporters from Scottish Catholics around the world that follow the club vicariously.

“If ever Celtic were to tap into that supporter base more, or could morph their media rights from just the Scottish Premiership into something bigger, then the revenues of the company could double or triple very quickly.”

He added: “So nothing much is going to change with Celtic in terms of the revenues it earns today if it doesn’t change its league structure – and there are no prospects of it doing so as far as I can see.

But I wouldn’t be surprised if the agenda from the owners over the very long term is to get things changed.

“If that was ever a likely event the value of the franchise would be enormous.”

What I take from that is that they would like to see Celtic leave Scotland and join the EPL or a North Atlantic League or something. This is a big reason why they hold the stock They also clearly want the club to maximize revenues, which means continuing to push in Europe for better and more remunerative results. This are both things that I hope will eventually happen....and I think many if not all of us are in agreement.

CONCLUSION: Nothing to worry about. they are good shareholders to have and will help us go forward.

Disclaimer: I do not know anybody at Lindsell and had never heard of them before yesterday when I started familiarizing myself with them because i was curious. So I can safely assure you that I hold no bias.
Click to expand...


That's a nice way to dress it up

What i see is were a cash rich club and the long game of buying up small sections of shares is starting to gather pace

This speculation of tapping into world wide fan base and atlantic leagues is window dressing (nah fkit ) bullshit of the highest order and has been heard before a long time ago

It's normally used to get suckers to part with their shares , here in Scotland it's called moonbeams

Are we to believe these guys saw Celtic as an amazing investment ,yet were in a league that has crap media TV rights where its hard to attract top names and shares a league with 11 other teams ,who lets face it can hardly break even

Yeah if i was an investor i would be looking to maximise my return and if i was an equity company i would look for a company that was cash rich and make some moves


But then you would know that
 
BenLynch29 said:
Thanks for the insights Fenian Bastard ;)

I myself am a CFA charterholder and suspected something along the lines of what you explained.

Also worth noting that there have been a lot of conversions lately of preferred shares into ordinary shares. I’m not sure if this is Lindsell again, but that would make sense.

In the grand scheme of things, this is all ‘fake news’ IMO. If these guys have been long term shareholders, and they’re increasing their stake by 0.1% or 0.2% which is what this appears to be, that’s not really newsworthy.
Click to expand...
Also, for the record, I agree with Lindsell’s analysis. Celtic as a club are worth far more than their market price and their revenue isn’t even close to its potential. I’m of the opinion that they could double or triple their turnover within 5 years with a different approach even without moving to a new league.

TV money, for all the headlines it generates, is actually not the biggest income source for the worlds biggest clubs — it’s sponsorship revenue and comes from global companies trying to reach customers on multiple continents. Also worth noting that for as large as Celtic’s worldwide fan base supposedly is, the market penetration of CelticTV would bring in 9 figures of income alone if everyone were subscribed. Obviously that’s not realistic, but a figure solidly in the 8 figure range should be achievable in my opinion.
 
manhattan fenian bastard said:
Perhaps i can help clear some things up. I worked as an investment banker for 30 years on Wall Street with frequent dealings in The City as well. I am now retired but am very familiar with what is going on here and on interpreting the finances of Celtic [and the Huns :-.)] and chat with James from time to time on such matters.

1. BNY Mellon is CUSTODIAN of the shares for Lindsell Train's accounts. So in due course the extra 1.5 percent or so Lindell Train bought on the 27 will show on the shareholders list under BNY Mellon. That is the way reporting works.

2. While Lindsell Train's CLIENTS are the actual owners of these shares, Lindsell Train has full discretionary authority to buy, sell and vote the shares. As they are the decision makers they are the entity that matters. The people that actually own them cannot exert any control over them and may not even know they own them according to the contract they signed with Lindell to manage their money.

3. This is an incremental purchase to take them from 17 to 18 plus per cent rather than a new investment. It is nice to see but doesn't really change much, as Lindsell Train has been building up its shares for over ten years. Presumably, they will take their holding in time to just under 20 per cent. Current regulations make it difficult to go over 20 per cent without triggering a bid for the remaining shares ala David King at Sevco. So there will be no substantial injection of capital from Lindell in the future, although they would likely top up their holdings in a share issue to keep their percentage ownership intact. These shares just purchased were not bought from treasury but on the exchange so no new money will accrue to Celtic by the purchase..it will go to the shareholder who sold the stock.

4. In reading Lindsell's discussion of its interest in Celtic, I view having them as a shareholder as a significant positive. They have owned their shares since 2008 and therefore are clearly, as they say, in for the long haul and not as opportunists. Further, they clearly see ways in which we can enhance revenues and are in the shares because they see the potential to realize those revenue increases. This is important. If they believed Celtic was going to stay where it is and not advance in strength they would be focused more on cash on hand and keeping costs in check. Having a large shareholder with a significant strategic vision alongside Dermot is a huge positive because they will push him to remain aggressive. Dermot seems to alternate between being aggressive and retrenching.

5. It is usual for somebody with that many shares to have a seat on the board. It is possible that one or two of the directors were nominated for selection by Lindell. If not, 18 per cent should mean that they will get somebody on the board soon. I don't know if they do or they don't but will make it my business to find out at the earliest opportunity.

6.You can rest assured that they know Desmond and Lawwell very well, speak to them at least monthly on the phone and know a great deal about what is going on with the club. Lawwell likely discusses any substantial decisions with them although likely only after he has made them and announcements have been made.

7, Here is a quote from Lindsell to outline their philosophy about holding the shares:

"There is a diaspora of potential Celtic supporters from Scottish Catholics around the world that follow the club vicariously.

“If ever Celtic were to tap into that supporter base more, or could morph their media rights from just the Scottish Premiership into something bigger, then the revenues of the company could double or triple very quickly.”

He added: “So nothing much is going to change with Celtic in terms of the revenues it earns today if it doesn’t change its league structure – and there are no prospects of it doing so as far as I can see.

But I wouldn’t be surprised if the agenda from the owners over the very long term is to get things changed.

“If that was ever a likely event the value of the franchise would be enormous.”

What I take from that is that they would like to see Celtic leave Scotland and join the EPL or a North Atlantic League or something. This is a big reason why they hold the stock They also clearly want the club to maximize revenues, which means continuing to push in Europe for better and more remunerative results. This are both things that I hope will eventually happen....and I think many if not all of us are in agreement.

CONCLUSION: Nothing to worry about. they are good shareholders to have and will help us go forward.

Disclaimer: I do not know anybody at Lindsell and had never heard of them before yesterday when I started familiarizing myself with them because i was curious. So I can safely assure you that I hold no bias.
Click to expand...


You the Wolf ??
 
BenLynch29 said:
Also, for the record, I agree with Lindsell’s analysis. Celtic as a club are worth far more than their market price and their revenue isn’t even close to its potential. I’m of the opinion that they could double or triple their turnover within 5 years with a different approach even without moving to a new league.

TV money, for all the headlines it generates, is actually not the biggest income source for the worlds biggest clubs — it’s sponsorship revenue and comes from global companies trying to reach customers on multiple continents. Also worth noting that for as large as Celtic’s worldwide fan base supposedly is, the market penetration of CelticTV would bring in 9 figures of income alone if everyone were subscribed. Obviously that’s not realistic, but a figure solidly in the 8 figure range should be achievable in my opinion.
Click to expand...


So much of this doubling , trebling etc.. of revenue is virtually dependent on the world wide exposure that the club receives . And that is dependent on the status of League we are tied to . There is no club in a 'minor ' league like the Scottish that has a world wide appeal like those in the EPL or Spanish - so unless we join another league we will not tap our potential abroad .
Yes , Celtic could tweak their revenues with more appeal in certain quarters but doubling/trebling seems a bit optimistic .
HH
 
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