European football

[Winter]

Watched their game against Real. They are our worst nightmare of an opponent. 5 at the back and sit in deep, like Kilmarnock or St. Johnstone but with world class players who can break out and create chance after chance. 3 goals from cross ball and headers tonight as well. Concentrate on getting something from Lazio and beating Feyenoord at home.

Which in reality is probably what we always suspected would be the case tbh

 

[Frank Owen]

It would be wrong of me to say I'm not lookin' forward to our CL games at Paradise over the next period. I am: not with the same level of expectation, though. Making up the numbers doesn't create much of a buzz.

 

[Lubos left peg]

It would be wrong of me to say I'm not lookin' forward to our CL games at Paradise over the next period. I am: not with the same level of expectation, though. Making up the numbers doesn't create much of a buzz.

Feyenoord were probably the team people saw us battle with for 3rd place. We may have got our tactics spot on in Holland, and didn't look under real pressure until the sending offs....but we never really looked like hurting them either. I'd imagine we will see a different Feyenoord team turn up to Celtic park. We know, and they know, they can play better.
Opposition teams seem to thrive on the atmosphere the Celtic fans create. To them its a bucket list experience, indorsed by the best players ever to play the game.
I don't know where we are going to pick up points if I'm honest.
My hope, for this season, is don't take sevcos "worse team in champions league history" title. Win the SPL and bank the £60 million from the new look Champions League set up. Actually spend the fucking money on experience and attempt to survive in Europe till after Christmas next season....

 

[Espiritosanto]

After watching the Madrid derby I’m in your camp Lubo,don’t be taking the hunz worst team in the champions league trophy please!!!madrid look really good,managers adopted an attack attack policy since the fans wanted him punted last season,because of his over cautious approach ( fuckin wonderful)..like you say about feyenoord theyll be different gravy come the return game!!a don’t know much about lazio but a can assume they’ll be fuckin flying aswell..but!!!that doesn’t mean come fight night a won’t be my usual over confident tit…..cmon the celts…

 

[Lubos left peg]

Teams from Belgium, Holland and Portugal are consistently reaching the knock out stages of European tournaments. Can anyone name 5 teams from each league without the use of Google?
If teams outside the big leagues of England, Spain, France, Germany and Italy can do it...why can't Celtic?
We, as fans, give our board a get out of jail free card, with our attitude and acceptance that "we just can't attract proper talent of European pedigree to Scotland".
It's bullshit! Portugal, Belgium and the Dutch league teams manage to do it.
Was Bobo Balde our highest earner on £40,000 week??...over 20 years ago?? And yet, after 20 years of being the most dominant side in Scotland, gaining champions League entry several times, breaking tranfer records time after time, signing massive contracts with, Adidas, Nike and New Balance as well as contracts with drinks and betting firms, still, our highest earner is probably not on much over £40,000 a week.
There has to be a point where our board make a step forward. We constantly hear how cash rich we are yet, in European terms, we are worse than we were 20 years ago!!!
The learning curve has to end at some point. We've had enough practice at having our arses handed to us, surely enough information has been gained on the changes that are needed to move us forward...

 

[Tarzan Trombone]

Teams from Belgium, Holland and Portugal are consistently reaching the knock out stages of European tournaments. Can anyone name 5 teams from each league without the use of Google?
If teams outside the big leagues of England, Spain, France, Germany and Italy can do it...why can't Celtic?
We, as fans, give our board a get out of jail free card, with our attitude and acceptance that "we just can't attract proper talent of European pedigree to Scotland".
It's bullshit! Portugal, Belgium and the Dutch league teams manage to do it.
Was Bobo Balde our highest earner on £40,000 week??...over 20 years ago?? And yet, after 20 years of being the most dominant side in Scotland, gaining champions League entry several times, breaking tranfer records time after time, signing massive contracts with, Adidas, Nike and New Balance as well as contracts with drinks and betting firms, still, our highest earner is probably not on much over £40,000 a week.
There has to be a point where our board make a step forward. We constantly hear how cash rich we are yet, in European terms, we are worse than we were 20 years ago!!!
The learning curve has to end at some point. We've had enough practice at having our arses handed to us, surely enough information has been gained on the changes that are needed to move us forward...

TV money is much higher in those leagues you mention, plus they are always part of the funny income boosting areas of world (the teams that seem to have some funky off field accounting. On top of that the balance of fans supporting other clubs is much more diversified so they have teams of higher but similar standard on pitch. The weather and attractions outside football for players makes their country generally more attractive for footballers.

So tv helps them out more.
They may or may not have some funky offfiled accounting to pay players in hidden tax avoidance ways.
The general level of opposition is higher.
The weather is better more often.
The hassles offield are less.
The Stress on pitch is more conducive to balanced play both learning attack and defence due to stronger opposition and varied strategies and players who can hurt you.

This attracts decent standard of player and they are better prepared due to having regular practise of all parts of football and not just attacking against defenders with rotten strikers.

Oh and the disparity in uk market between scottish and English wages means if your playing in uk it makes more sense to accept better wage for less hassles and slightly better weather than the part of uk we live in.

 

[Lubos left peg]

TV money is much higher in those leagues you mention, plus they are always part of the funny income boosting areas of world (the teams that seem to have some funky off field accounting. On top of that the balance of fans supporting other clubs is much more diversified so they have teams of higher but similar standard on pitch. The weather and attractions outside football for players makes their country generally more attractive for footballers.

So tv helps them out more.
They may or may not have some funky offfiled accounting to pay players in hidden tax avoidance ways.
The general level of opposition is higher.
The weather is better more often.
The hassles offield are less.
The Stress on pitch is more conducive to balanced play both learning attack and defence due to stronger opposition and varied strategies and players who can hurt you.

This attracts decent standard of player and they are better prepared due to having regular practise of all parts of football and not just attacking against defenders with rotten strikers.

Oh and the disparity in uk market between scottish and English wages means if your playing in uk it makes more sense to accept better wage for less hassles and slightly better weather than the part of uk we live in.

I'm sure it was riveting. Looks like you put a lot of effort into it....I'll file it under

 

[Tarzan Trombone]

I'm sure it was riveting. Looks like you put a lot of effort into it....I'll file it under

Thats no very nice.

I know a lot of huns who stick their head in the sand and refuse to see what the problems are.

Guess Celtic have some too.

 

[Lubos left peg]

 

[Winter]

TV money is much higher in those leagues you mention, plus they are always part of the funny income boosting areas of world (the teams that seem to have some funky off field accounting. On top of that the balance of fans supporting other clubs is much more diversified so they have teams of higher but similar standard on pitch. The weather and attractions outside football for players makes their country generally more attractive for footballers.

So tv helps them out more.
They may or may not have some funky offfiled accounting to pay players in hidden tax avoidance ways.
The general level of opposition is higher.
The weather is better more often.
The hassles offield are less.
The Stress on pitch is more conducive to balanced play both learning attack and defence due to stronger opposition and varied strategies and players who can hurt you.

This attracts decent standard of player and they are better prepared due to having regular practise of all parts of football and not just attacking against defenders with rotten strikers.

Oh and the disparity in uk market between scottish and English wages means if your playing in uk it makes more sense to accept better wage for less hassles and slightly better weather than the part of uk we live in.

The weather and stronger opposition for clubs like AZ Alkmaar or Braga is as far as I can agree with you there TET.
Lubo is correct there's no reason why Celtic can't ( other than the board wont) push the boat out even could be done in cycles , 5 seasons higher investment Vs 5 seasons of lower investment.
This would not have a negative impact on the clubs security other than the boards bonuses we'd still be a strong financially viable club due to our support base.
The lack of ambition shown by the board beyond their lucrative bonuses is unacceptable to almost every Celtic supporter.

I know that you're happy to be Scottish champions buddy but you have to realise , just as others accept your viewpoint that it's just not enough. Whilst board members rake it in year in and out for over a decade we've seen our clubs name and reputation suffer from this stagnant approach.

Celtic Park is not seen as a fortress anymore but a tourist attraction for players in Europe to tick the box and say " I played in that amazing atmosphere ", unfortunately they can also add " we won there" as well.
This is something that I personally believe is heading towards a crunch point where we will see our supporters turn against the board , I hope that doesn't happen but until our European fortunes take a turn for the better I don't see a way past this for the board, or should I say Desmond and Lawell

 

[Tarzan Trombone]

The weather and stronger opposition for clubs like AZ Alkmaar or Braga is as far as I can agree with you there TET.
Lubo is correct there's no reason why Celtic can't ( other than the board wont) push the boat out even could be done in cycles , 5 seasons higher investment Vs 5 seasons of lower investment.
This would not have a negative impact on the clubs security other than the boards bonuses we'd still be a strong financially viable club due to our support base.
The lack of ambition shown by the board beyond their lucrative bonuses is unacceptable to almost every Celtic supporter.

I know that you're happy to be Scottish champions buddy but you have to realise , just as others accept your viewpoint that it's just not enough. Whilst board members rake it in year in and out for over a decade we've seen our clubs name and reputation suffer from this stagnant approach.

Celtic Park is not seen as a fortress anymore but a tourist attraction for players in Europe to tick the box and say " I played in that amazing atmosphere ", unfortunately they can also add " we won there" as well.
This is something that I personally believe is heading towards a crunch point where we will see our supporters turn against the board , I hope that doesn't happen but until our European fortunes take a turn for the better I don't see a way past this for the board, or should I say Desmond and Lawell

`At no point did I say you should be happy or need to agree with my opinion.

But I tried to give reasons why players good enough are more interested going to other clubs.

wages is big 1
We are a UK club who cant pay top club in UK wages. thanks sky.

Watch Belgian Portuguesse and Dutch games and you will see the standard of other teams are much higher than the average we face here in Scotland.

That means when you face tougher teams you are not going to be as prepared as teams in those leagues.

Not impossible just more difficult Since the players living UK playing at top UK club want xertain standard of living and they can get that at not so top clubs in England which means you need to compete wage wise with clubs in UK who get tv bungs.

Not impossible just unlikely you will get top players willing to come for all the off field hassles and still not even get guarantee of selection in our huge squad of top players in Scotland.

The big problem is wages the other problems are less significant but on whole make other leagues more attractive.

1 you might be liable to serious injury here since media and refs dont like club you play for and will squirrel your injury
2 The standard of football is very low so your limited in skill development if you dont actually have it already.
3 players who have skill development already want market wages boosted by tv more than playing for Celtic
4 The premium you pay for top players is often diluted when you come from big market to small market. Try buying watch at Harrods then selling it at Paddys market at a bigger price. So you often need to pay premiums that you wont get back unless the player becomes hot in demand. Very risky. Especially when the bigger markets get income boost from tv you dont get.
5 The weather might not be problem in signing players if you could afford wage they expect. But it probably quickly becomes an issue for motivation when life is lulling offield or on it and homesickness can become an issue especially when your playing away at Hamilton in front of 3 thousand on a wet dreekit wednesday night when your wanting a better challenge in life.


The list of other reasons are too long to write them all down.

But you want to ignore all the pitfalls of Scottish football and its attractions for mercenaries from warmer climates.

To get the players to ignore the life problems of moving to Scotland require wages that the player will accept to offset the downside of coming to Scotland and getting abuse everytime you go into a supermarket with you partner.


And without Tv bungs that other CL clubs get as well as whatever other hidden perks on offer then the chances of signing Celtic standard quality players who are motivated to put up with abuse from half of Scotland all the time and the other half everytime you have bad game all count whether you think it matters or not.

Signings players who dont add value for money wont help team
Overpaying for players who are gpod enough wont help club

Mercenaries want wages.

TV company boost wages on offer elsewhere.

Jock stein could take scottish guys from mostly Glasgow and beat the worlds best coz they were motivated and had Celtic in their heart.

Mercenaries dont usually come with same ethos unless you pay them top wages in line with teams you want to defeat.

 

[Winter]

`At no point did I say you should be happy or need to agree with my opinion.

But I tried to give reasons why players good enough are more interested going to other clubs.

wages is big 1
We are a UK club who cant pay top club in UK wages. thanks sky.

Watch Belgian Portuguesse and Dutch games and you will see the standard of other teams are much higher than the average we face here in Scotland.

That means when you face tougher teams you are not going to be as prepared as teams in those leagues.

Not impossible just more difficult Since the players living UK playing at top UK club want xertain standard of living and they can get that at not so top clubs in England which means you need to compete wage wise with clubs in UK who get tv bungs.

Not impossible just unlikely you will get top players willing to come for all the off field hassles and still not even get guarantee of selection in our huge squad of top players in Scotland.

The big problem is wages the other problems are less significant but on whole make other leagues more attractive.

1 you might be liable to serious injury here since media and refs dont like club you play for and will squirrel your injury
2 The standard of football is very low so your limited in skill development if you dont actually have it already.
3 players who have skill development already want market wages boosted by tv more than playing for Celtic
4 The premium you pay for top players is often diluted when you come from big market to small market. Try buying watch at Harrods then selling it at Paddys market at a bigger price. So you often need to pay premiums that you wont get back unless the player becomes hot in demand. Very risky. Especially when the bigger markets get income boost from tv you dont get.
5 The weather might not be problem in signing players if you could afford wage they expect. But it probably quickly becomes an issue for motivation when life is lulling offield or on it and homesickness can become an issue especially when your playing away at Hamilton in front of 3 thousand on a wet dreekit wednesday night when your wanting a better challenge in life.


The list of other reasons are too long to write them all down.

But you want to ignore all the pitfalls of Scottish football and its attractions for mercenaries from warmer climates.

To get the players to ignore the life problems of moving to Scotland require wages that the player will accept to offset the downside of coming to Scotland and getting abuse everytime you go into a supermarket with you partner.


And without Tv bungs that other CL clubs get as well as whatever other hidden perks on offer then the chances of signing Celtic standard quality players who are motivated to put up with abuse from half of Scotland all the time and the other half everytime you have bad game all count whether you think it matters or not.

Signings players who dont add value for money wont help team
Overpaying for players who are gpod enough wont help club

Mercenaries want wages.

TV company boost wages on offer elsewhere.

Jock stein could take scottish guys from mostly Glasgow and beat the worlds best coz they were motivated and had Celtic in their heart.

Mercenaries dont usually come with same ethos unless you pay them top wages in line with teams you want to defeat.

I know you didn't say I should be happy with or agree with your opinion buddy, I said that I didn't agree with it.
Yes there's many pitfalls about weather and wages etc but how is that any different to even Denmark?
A country with similar population and less money to pay players wages.

One huge factor Scotland has is that its a direct feeder to the EPL, players and their agents realise this , its the reason why there's so many foreigners here and buying direct from the SPFL is a lot cheaper than buying from many mainland European countries, whether its players or managers Italy, Germany, Spain and England are all after our talent every window.
We can only blame sky and others so much for that's been going on for years now, the blame lies here with the powers that be for their failings to market 2 of world club footballs most iconic cubs ( one a tribute act granted) but the fan base is still there. They didn't have to sign up to the sky deal but they're so lazy in their jobs they just took what was on offer and having seen some of the recent deals for Dutch and Scandinavian football it highlights how awful at their jobs Doncaster and Co really are.
They should be sacked for gross negligence.
I'd bet you and I could put our heads together and come up with more than the current £30 million deal ( I think it's worth) and that would be for the rights to the Glasgow derbies alone. Watched all over the globe by tens of millions , a possible 6 games 4 guaranteed. Can't keep blaming Sky for the failure of Doncaster.

We also don't need to pay or try to emulate the EPL to get quality in the door.
Jota, CCV, Starfelt, Abada, Juranovic, Maeda all internationals all top talents none costing huge amounts.
The op was about Celtic pushing out the boat a little more than has been the case , that's well within our means and wouldn't require cutting any cloth other than board members bonuses by a few fractions of percentages.
What good is it to Celtic supporters how many times the club posts record profits if its not reflected on the field of play?
I'd say none. I'd also say ( as I've posted before) that if something doesn't give in respect to the fans getting something in return from our investments this will bite deeply into Desmond and lawells arses , its not only this site its every Celtic site the fans are sick of the lack of ambition.
The only ambition shown is to buy low ,sell high. That benefits none of us and our reputation has gone to the dogs as a result we are the side other clubs hope to draw now in Europe

 

[Winter]

Teams from Belgium, Holland and Portugal are consistently reaching the knock out stages of European tournaments. Can anyone name 5 teams from each league without the use of Google?
If teams outside the big leagues of England, Spain, France, Germany and Italy can do it...why can't Celtic?
We, as fans, give our board a get out of jail free card, with our attitude and acceptance that "we just can't attract proper talent of European pedigree to Scotland".
It's bullshit! Portugal, Belgium and the Dutch league teams manage to do it.
Was Bobo Balde our highest earner on £40,000 week??...over 20 years ago?? And yet, after 20 years of being the most dominant side in Scotland, gaining champions League entry several times, breaking tranfer records time after time, signing massive contracts with, Adidas, Nike and New Balance as well as contracts with drinks and betting firms, still, our highest earner is probably not on much over £40,000 a week.
There has to be a point where our board make a step forward. We constantly hear how cash rich we are yet, in European terms, we are worse than we were 20 years ago!!!
The learning curve has to end at some point. We've had enough practice at having our arses handed to us, surely enough information has been gained on the changes that are needed to move us forward...

Anderlecht, Brugges, Gent , Antwerp, Standard Liege, Union St Gilloise.

Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord, Az Alkmaar, Utrecht, Twente .

Benfica, Porto, Sporting, Boavista, Braga, Arouca

Never cheated /googalized but admit I took a while to get Arouca, idk why they're a humongous club with loadsa money and a fan base that would put Ayr to shame

 

[Tarzan Trombone]

I know you didn't say I should be happy with or agree with your opinion buddy, I said that I didn't agree with it.
Yes there's many pitfalls about weather and wages etc but how is that any different to even Denmark?
A country with similar population and less money to pay players wages.

One huge factor Scotland has is that its a direct feeder to the EPL, players and their agents realise this , its the reason why there's so many foreigners here and buying direct from the SPFL is a lot cheaper than buying from many mainland European countries, whether its players or managers Italy, Germany, Spain and England are all after our talent every window.
We can only blame sky and others so much for that's been going on for years now, the blame lies here with the powers that be for their failings to market 2 of world club footballs most iconic cubs ( one a tribute act granted) but the fan base is still there. They didn't have to sign up to the sky deal but they're so lazy in their jobs they just took what was on offer and having seen some of the recent deals for Dutch and Scandinavian football it highlights how awful at their jobs Doncaster and Co really are.
They should be sacked for gross negligence.
I'd bet you and I could put our heads together and come up with more than the current £30 million deal ( I think it's worth) and that would be for the rights to the Glasgow derbies alone. Watched all over the globe by tens of millions , a possible 6 games 4 guaranteed. Can't keep blaming Sky for the failure of Doncaster.

We also don't need to pay or try to emulate the EPL to get quality in the door.
Jota, CCV, Starfelt, Abada, Juranovic, Maeda all internationals all top talents none costing huge amounts.
The op was about Celtic pushing out the boat a little more than has been the case , that's well within our means and wouldn't require cutting any cloth other than board members bonuses by a few fractions of percentages.
What good is it to Celtic supporters how many times the club posts record profits if its not reflected on the field of play?
I'd say none. I'd also say ( as I've posted before) that if something doesn't give in respect to the fans getting something in return from our investments this will bite deeply into Desmond and lawells arses , its not only this site its every Celtic site the fans are sick of the lack of ambition.
The only ambition shown is to buy low ,sell high. That benefits none of us and our reputation has gone to the dogs as a result we are the side other clubs hope to draw now in Europe

They accepted the offer Celtic made to them.
Im pretty certain club offered lots of good players similar offers and the players chose not to come.

Denmark has a balanced league with full repertoire of styles necessary for different teams. This gives them access to regular counter attack football which is absolutely more useful against stronger teams in European matches. Celtic dont get much chance to practise counter football against teams of similar strength and Celtic fans dont want counter football against weaker teams.

This gives proficient teams chances against Celtic in Europe that dont often happen in Scotland because Celtic development in defensive structures is very weak.

That leaves Celtic is bad place in Europe defensively. Especially when they are playing strong teams in CL

I dont remember Danish teams doing very well in CL in recent years.

No team in Scandanavia has the stresses of playing for Celtic. This requires a certain grade of character to cope under the pressures especially with fans demanding parity with best teams in Europe.

Those pressures require good plan that includes defensive structures and being proficiently able to cope against very strong teams. But Celtic fans want swashbuckling attacking flair cozhistorically thats what Celtic do. That style of attacking football makes Celtic good at producing in demand players for attacking clubs which usually are the wealthier teams especially if the players are excelling in an attacking team week on week.

That attracts hopeful mercenaries to join as learners with talents not yet galvanised (aka projects) It doesnt make celtic attractive to fully galvanised quality players without a top UK grade wage which cannot be sustained in Scotland. And most clubs dont want to lose those players.

The reason Celtic can attract projects is they get a game and are allowed to move on if better wage offered elsewhere.
This means Celtic will struggle to develop with same backbone of team for very long.

These pressures often dont exist at clubs in other smaller unboosted tv leagues. Which gives them chances against european teams especially when opposition take eye off ball or are favourites clearly .

Coming to Celtic park usually brings A game from better teams because its a big scalp to claim under unique crowd pressures.

Can celtic attract players from Denmark if those players are good enough to play for Celtic.

yes
But being a UK club these players see Celtic huge club in UK and want big UK wage especially if they are CL standard players but that means their agent can go to EPL and say you fancy offering a better wage? And that bidding war leaves Celtic in tough place to attract this player if better wage on offer elsewhere.

its not an easy situation to be in.

And truthfully most scandanavian players are not used to playing the style Celtic play week in week out and therefore cant come in and guarantee themselves first team instantly if at all.

And therein lies the problem for Celtic now that they cannot afford the best attackiing players at CL levels anyway. And without those players, playing attacking football against these capable CL teams results in defeats from jaws of victory through losing weak goals time and time again and lacking the goalscoring power at that level against clubs with significantly more organised CL level clubs playing at higher levels week in week out.

it may even be why Sevco get better results in europe since they do get to play defensive football at home more often. Their players are worse than Celtic but they have a slightly better preparation for European teams being second best team in Scotland and therefore need to practise defensive football being not strong enough to powerplay every other team in Scotland.

Powerplay football is weak against good countering team. And sevco are better countering team than us. because they need to play counter football to open up defences with their poor strikers.

The huge crowds in Europe helps Celtic but the demand for flamboyant attacking football week in week out leaves Celtic weak against top sides in europe.

Rock and hard place.

Portugal and holland have clubs that are comparable with Scottish big 2 And so can attract similar players as celtic but can get deal done more often because their leagues are more attractive with better balance of teams in those leagues with much higher general standard of teams than scotland these days. And better wages and better tax deals, potentially hidden by the black markets and the banking structures that faciltate these wage packets.

Belgium have lots of decent sized clubs but no real monster clubs. Scandanvaian clubs are not as strong as portugal or holland both of which are massive wealth magnet and zionist traders of masonic nature and have huge black markets and interesting tax rules that allow interesting tax avoidance for footballers.

These monster trading ports of masonic nature and history all have the big juggernaut clubs in those countries. lisbon porto Amsterdam rotterdam Antwerp Bruges Brussels. none of these clubs have size of Celtic but they do have the masonic trading connections as do nearly every huge name club with super status on field and therefore capable of weird cash influx that may or may not be suspicious.

it may well be why Rangers feel shafted for doing the masonic handshake shuffle that is happening all over the big port cities of the zionist countries. yet they were allowed to die whereas all the other big masonic clubs seem to get eyes turned away when tax dodginess happens.

Glasgow also used to be huge masonic port city. but seems its no longer the jewel of the british empire.

Celtic managed to beat all these masonic clubs in europe with bag of rags and the poorest fans in world.

Now that world is changing the defiant poor players of past with talent no longer strive to represent their favourite club and today these poor players can get big wages and be super rich and thats more important in modern world than playing for the Non zionist club with flair.

 

[Lubos left peg]

WC can we have a stuck on the Like option under comments??

 

[Espiritosanto]

Teams from Belgium, Holland and Portugal are consistently reaching the knock out stages of European tournaments. Can anyone name 5 teams from each league without the use of Google?
If teams outside the big leagues of England, Spain, France, Germany and Italy can do it...why can't Celtic?
We, as fans, give our board a get out of jail free card, with our attitude and acceptance that "we just can't attract proper talent of European pedigree to Scotland".
It's bullshit! Portugal, Belgium and the Dutch league teams manage to do it.
Was Bobo Balde our highest earner on £40,000 week??...over 20 years ago?? And yet, after 20 years of being the most dominant side in Scotland, gaining champions League entry several times, breaking tranfer records time after time, signing massive contracts with, Adidas, Nike and New Balance as well as contracts with drinks and betting firms, still, our highest earner is probably not on much over £40,000 a week.
There has to be a point where our board make a step forward. We constantly hear how cash rich we are yet, in European terms, we are worse than we were 20 years ago!!!
The learning curve has to end at some point. We've had enough practice at having our arses handed to us, surely enough information has been gained on the changes that are needed to move us forward...

Canny argue with that Lubo,,thing is mate it won’t change in my /or your lifetime!!celtic fans probably the most loyal in Europe,but it’s to our detriment,and the kell/white,lawell/desmond..”custodians” know that …..

 

[Winter]

They accepted the offer Celtic made to them.
Im pretty certain club offered lots of good players similar offers and the players chose not to come.

Denmark has a balanced league with full repertoire of styles necessary for different teams. This gives them access to regular counter attack football which is absolutely more useful against stronger teams in European matches. Celtic dont get much chance to practise counter football against teams of similar strength and Celtic fans dont want counter football against weaker teams.

This gives proficient teams chances against Celtic in Europe that dont often happen in Scotland because Celtic development in defensive structures is very weak.

That leaves Celtic is bad place in Europe defensively. Especially when they are playing strong teams in CL

I dont remember Danish teams doing very well in CL in recent years.

No team in Scandanavia has the stresses of playing for Celtic. This requires a certain grade of character to cope under the pressures especially with fans demanding parity with best teams in Europe.

Those pressures require good plan that includes defensive structures and being proficiently able to cope against very strong teams. But Celtic fans want swashbuckling attacking flair cozhistorically thats what Celtic do. That style of attacking football makes Celtic good at producing in demand players for attacking clubs which usually are the wealthier teams especially if the players are excelling in an attacking team week on week.

That attracts hopeful mercenaries to join as learners with talents not yet galvanised (aka projects) It doesnt make celtic attractive to fully galvanised quality players without a top UK grade wage which cannot be sustained in Scotland. And most clubs dont want to lose those players.

The reason Celtic can attract projects is they get a game and are allowed to move on if better wage offered elsewhere.
This means Celtic will struggle to develop with same backbone of team for very long.

These pressures often dont exist at clubs in other smaller unboosted tv leagues. Which gives them chances against european teams especially when opposition take eye off ball or are favourites clearly .

Coming to Celtic park usually brings A game from better teams because its a big scalp to claim under unique crowd pressures.

Can celtic attract players from Denmark if those players are good enough to play for Celtic.

yes
But being a UK club these players see Celtic huge club in UK and want big UK wage especially if they are CL standard players but that means their agent can go to EPL and say you fancy offering a better wage? And that bidding war leaves Celtic in tough place to attract this player if better wage on offer elsewhere.

its not an easy situation to be in.

And truthfully most scandanavian players are not used to playing the style Celtic play week in week out and therefore cant come in and guarantee themselves first team instantly if at all.

And therein lies the problem for Celtic now that they cannot afford the best attackiing players at CL levels anyway. And without those players, playing attacking football against these capable CL teams results in defeats from jaws of victory through losing weak goals time and time again and lacking the goalscoring power at that level against clubs with significantly more organised CL level clubs playing at higher levels week in week out.

it may even be why Sevco get better results in europe since they do get to play defensive football at home more often. Their players are worse than Celtic but they have a slightly better preparation for European teams being second best team in Scotland and therefore need to practise defensive football being not strong enough to powerplay every other team in Scotland.

Powerplay football is weak against good countering team. And sevco are better countering team than us. because they need to play counter football to open up defences with their poor strikers.

The huge crowds in Europe helps Celtic but the demand for flamboyant attacking football week in week out leaves Celtic weak against top sides in europe.

Rock and hard place.

Portugal and holland have clubs that are comparable with Scottish big 2 And so can attract similar players as celtic but can get deal done more often because their leagues are more attractive with better balance of teams in those leagues with much higher general standard of teams than scotland these days. And better wages and better tax deals, potentially hidden by the black markets and the banking structures that faciltate these wage packets.

Belgium have lots of decent sized clubs but no real monster clubs. Scandanvaian clubs are not as strong as portugal or holland both of which are massive wealth magnet and zionist traders of masonic nature and have huge black markets and interesting tax rules that allow interesting tax avoidance for footballers.

These monster trading ports of masonic nature and history all have the big juggernaut clubs in those countries. lisbon porto Amsterdam rotterdam Antwerp Bruges Brussels. none of these clubs have size of Celtic but they do have the masonic trading connections as do nearly every huge name club with super status on field and therefore capable of weird cash influx that may or may not be suspicious.

it may well be why Rangers feel shafted for doing the masonic handshake shuffle that is happening all over the big port cities of the zionist countries. yet they were allowed to die whereas all the other big masonic clubs seem to get eyes turned away when tax dodginess happens.

Glasgow also used to be huge masonic port city. but seems its no longer the jewel of the british empire.

Celtic managed to beat all these masonic clubs in europe with bag of rags and the poorest fans in world.

Now that world is changing the defiant poor players of past with talent no longer strive to represent their favourite club and today these poor players can get big wages and be super rich and thats more important in modern world than playing for the Non zionist club with flair.

I was agreeing with your post this time until you got to "Sevco are a better counter attacking side than Celtic " , I don't agree with that.
I watched the sevco v Motherwell game highlights and they were ripped apart by Well umpteen times on the counterattack.
Had Well still got a Van Veen type striker on their books I'm certain they'd have scored a few goals from the chances they'd made, that's why despite winning the game they were booed off the park at ft.
I also watched Aberdeen against Ross County and their counterattacking play was beautiful to watch , buoyed by their performance in Frankfurt.

We are too quick to talk our game down in Scotland, when our games not that bad at all it's the investment in it and its mismanagement of it.
Celtic have never payed wages on a par with the bigger countries , there was a time we paid decent money but only rangers oldco have ever competed in that way but they were cheating HMRC and the club died. Sevcos " better results in Europe " have come at a lower level , one we rarely play at the Europa league, the competition is nothing like that which we face in the champions league, something they brutally found out last season.
When we do play at that level , last 3 times anyway we showed reasonably well 3rd , to leverkusen and betis, season b4 was the terrible season we were awful and before that we topped our group of lazio , cluj and rennes for the first time, so I don't accept that rangers are better in Europe because they don't play at our level, they play against clubs that finish 7th and 5th in their seasons table.

I'm not sure why you're saying all these clubs are masonic either TET then zionist ?
If anything that kind of thinking plays more of a role in our own game I'd think with the sectarianism in our game.
This is all besides the point anyway , which is, lubos point that it's bs that we cannot attract quality players to the club because of wages and that is as he said bs.
If that were true there would've been no Jota, no CCV, Starfelt, Maeda but we keep on selling and not reinvesting buying replacements that are of the same standard.

We had the chance to do that last window but saw Podence head on loan to Greece, Livakovic go to Turkey for around £5 million, and we certainly could have matched his wages and offered more than the Turks but didn't because the board have no ambition beyond Scotland and that lack of ambition will cost our club anyone who thinks differently is mistaken imho.

We've had this debate before you and I buddy and I understand you're points , you're satisfied with being Scotland's best ( or you said that one time, perhaps youre not )I won't hold one post as your viewpoint but it's not enough for the rest of us.
Net value negative, net value positive, I know absolutely net zero supporters coming back from any Celtic match I've ever attended over the years, or sat in the pub with who are talking or thinking that way or could give a damn about it unless it's reflected on the park.
Of course no-one wants us bankrupt but we expect at least the board to make an effort, a concerted effort not a one off season.
Celtics poor signings have been the result of gambling on project players , Celtics good signings have cost us that little bit extra but made us that much more when we sell.
Not every signing, project or experienced will work out, this is football after all and not an exact science nor business either when it comes to players transfers.
The fact that we the fans are seeing record turnover year after year and the highest paid CEO in lawell in British football was Celtics should give a hint to where the moneys going.
This is just my viewpoint on the debate TET and not a slant nor dig at your goodself mate HH

 

[Smelltheg-love]

 

[breadbhoy]

Money!!!!! Who needs money? I fecking do now. Need new ovens to replace the Victorian ones

 

[kelly]

Money!!!!! Who needs money? I fecking do now. Need new ovens to replace the Victorian ones

Heard it