Exactly Frank, I’ve always though there has been a great player in jamesy but for a long time he seems to doubt it more than anyone else and goes into hide mode
Hibs V Celtic
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Winter
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As usual the voice of sanity Frank
Anyone who has followed Celtic even if only through the last 9iar and quadreble will have seen what an on his game Forrest brings to the team.
As I posted already I cant defend his lacklustre performances of late and he is our second highest earner I believe ( could be wrong but who cares).
When Celtic are playing well so is Forrest and we arent playing well.
Which makes it even more incredible that we have for now at least a 4pt cushion inc gd.
I dont buy that hes struggling to adapt to angeball as his game was all about speed and interchange way before Ange arrived.
Its confidence I'd bet your house on it
Same for julien , who we again know that he has a lot to offer.
Perhaps Ange has him in cotton wool for now, being one of our most expensive signings ever.
SMSM have us inundated with west ham, west brom and every other European club wanting to take CCV away from us, the usual stuff at this time.
I've heard a lot about how both CCV and jules cannot play together but says who? Who's seen them play together? Wouldnt surprise me at all if they could players of that stature.
It was disappointing to draw that game as was every game at easter rd for seasons before. We are just lacking rhythm and need a spark of brilliance from someone , anyone.
I am positive it will come hopefully tomorrow and we bang a few goals in without reply 2-0 would suit me fine. We are so close we really need all hands on deck playing well and we will see this out with another hunskelp added as well. HH
Winter
Well-known member
It's not easy to come back from such a long lay off when hed been on fire just before. Seen that with Robert's.
I have confidence in him and it looks like Ange does also but as Frank mentioned his experience could be crucial for the run in , actually no, it will be crucial
Spherical Planet
Well-known member
Great thing aboot young players when they first burst on the scene is that they are absolutely fearless, Mik. They play on instinct and it's their rawness that makes them unpredictable.
As they years roll by though, guys like wee Forrest start to think about it too much and then start worrying aboot they tight hamstrings and calf strains as well.
Ange could do a lot worse than just tell him to play his own game and not to worry about sticking to the 'philosophy'. Once Jamesie gets rid of the physical and mental shackles, then I'd like to think we'd see that raw individual talent again.
Winter
Well-known member
Does Ange allow anyone to play their own game? Forrest hasnt reached the levels he was at but must be doing something right in training to get a start . If he converts training to match days it's a huge win win for a player linked with liverpool 2 seasons ago. We must be patient and again realise who far weve come in such a short space of time. Also bridiebhoy another thing that pisses me off is the collective groans around the stadium if a player tries to improvise and loses the ball. I hate that and it's not what I call support. Yes weve all paid our good money but dont slate players publically in the stadium for at least trying something else.
Spherical Planet
Well-known member
Thing that really frustrates me is the modern day emphasis on overcoaching, particularly wie the really young boys. For me, it zaps the absolute joy oot o' the game and everything becomes a drill or a routine.
I used to go and watch my niece's wee boy train and I had to stop because I was a ba'hair away fae throttling Jurgen Guardiola on the sidelines wie his under armour snood or at least sticking his tablet (and not the suppository type) up his arsehole.
"10 passes before a positive action" (direct quote).
Fuck that, at 9/10 year-old it's every ned for themselves and survival of the naturally talented.
There's definitely a place for good coaching (defending and taking set-pieces are a good example), but please don't take free expression out of the game.
Big Jock was a fantastic coach, but he was an even better manager. He understood that you can't tame raw and wild talent like Jinky, but you can manage it and utilise it in the most productive way.
History tells it's own tale as far as that method goes.
Winter
Well-known member
Our set pieces are laughable were it not deadly serious.
0 goals from 30 direct free kicks is woeful for any team never mind Celtic and it wouldnt surprise me at all if we have the worst conversion rates from set pieces in the league.
This has to change as teams will be happy to concede a dangerous free kick position when they know we couldn't hit a barn door from 5 ft with a shotgun
Spherical Planet
Well-known member
Kinda noticed that pattern emerging, Winter. Teams don't mind conceding preventable corners against us, as it often leads to them posing a threat on the break as our set-pieces stink more than my septic tank!
Winter
Well-known member
And I always thought that smell was coming from the whisky bond in the gorbals
Bridie Bhoy
Well-known member
100% correct. There are some players who give some fans "the fear" and you can really feel the atmosphere change when the ball goes near to them as if they are waiting for them to do something wrong. I am not saying that the fans are wrong as often this because that player has made too many individual errors before but it is the worst thing in the world for sapping a person of confidence and 9 times out of 10 only makes things much worse.
Winter
Well-known member
Couldnt agree more and how hard would it be for the club to send out emails ( like when they're flogging something) or a public announcement asking the fans to see the bigger picture and keep the fury until after the match at least and therefore not silencing the supporters views
Spherical Planet
Well-known member
Oh I don't know?
60,000 murmurs of discontent sounds like a spa day compared to 20 of the Larkhall lynch mob baying for blood behind your goal.
Certainly doesn't help when you're playing for a team called The Harp either.
Legend07
Well-known member
Totally agree miktim. Even when he was meant to be on top of his game he was hiding in matches I have been saying this for about 3 seasons now. The guys I have been “debating” it with are now seeing it if he’s not hiding he’s passing it straight back to whoever passed to him or he goes sideways. He hardly ever takes on his man. In most of the games he’s a man short. It does my head in because there is a player there as we all know but unfortunately we don’t see it anymore and at apparently near 20 grand a week that’s not good enough.Any time I’ve seen Jamesy this season he looks as if he is back in training for the world hide and seek championships. He constantly hides behind defenders to avoid getting the ball passed to him
I honestly believe we should go and get Paddy Roberts who has totally lost his way but if there’s ever a club to get the fire in his belly and get his career going again it is us and he would be a fraction of the wages Forrest is on and couldn’t do any worse IMO.
I think it could be that the injuries have finally caught up with forrest now, as losing that half yard of pace can be the difference between what he once gave to what he is currently able to offer imo.
Still think that there is a role for him on offer until the end of the season, and still surprised Ange never opted to use him on Sunday whatsoever, so think now he might feel he can't trust him to deliver now
Always find the hindsight debate interesting after a preference and result wasn't to our liking, and many very valid points have been risen also.
Is Ange above criticism about his decision making now?
Like anyone within Celtic, if the results don't go to our liking, then the criticism follows, goes with the territory within any football club, its the abuse towards any individual that I struggle to tolerate, if they are giving there all for the good of the team.
Ange job involves making the big decisions, and the set up of the team, style of play etc etc is cast in stone now for the remaining of the season. Also seems set that choices for actual starting positions have been hugely reduced now also.
Game management also looks set in stone in term's of subs used now after Sunday.
Also was surprised to see the lack of subs used, as the Rogic and O'Reilly remains more of a starting one now, which I think O'Reilly still edges due to the dramatic lack of form of Rogic at present.
Worryingly Ange doesn't seem to suit forrest nowadays to improve what was already in the wider areas, and possibly to risky with the game as it was to use dembele imo, so not to much criticism from me upon the decision made, yet still think mixing up the front 3 in positional changes at times would have been a potential option I believe could have been used but wasn't.
Hatate race looked well run, so surprised calmac wasn't used in his role, yet Bitton, I don't believe would have improved our tempo, so the unanswered question still remains in what guchi brings to the table, as Ange seems he can't fully trust him yet in a very important position within the set up of the team.
Most surprised sub not used was the option of ralston imo.
Taylor is still not renowned for his attacking play, and his link up play with Jota is still not as good as it is with josip imo.
Yet on the right side Abada and ralston have linked up on a good few occasions in creating goals and providing chances, and ralston still provides an extra edge upon any set play and no stranger to getting into the area, to even score a goal.
Hindsight remains easier after the event without any knowledge about how the outcome would have proved, yet the decision making at the time isn't so straightforward when just that one moment changes everything.
It's what the beauty of football brings, and turned out to be a lovely day overall, even if the remains of concern are all fully justifed imo.
Is Ange above criticism about his decision making now?
Like anyone within Celtic, if the results don't go to our liking, then the criticism follows, goes with the territory within any football club, its the abuse towards any individual that I struggle to tolerate, if they are giving there all for the good of the team.
Ange job involves making the big decisions, and the set up of the team, style of play etc etc is cast in stone now for the remaining of the season. Also seems set that choices for actual starting positions have been hugely reduced now also.
Game management also looks set in stone in term's of subs used now after Sunday.
Also was surprised to see the lack of subs used, as the Rogic and O'Reilly remains more of a starting one now, which I think O'Reilly still edges due to the dramatic lack of form of Rogic at present.
Worryingly Ange doesn't seem to suit forrest nowadays to improve what was already in the wider areas, and possibly to risky with the game as it was to use dembele imo, so not to much criticism from me upon the decision made, yet still think mixing up the front 3 in positional changes at times would have been a potential option I believe could have been used but wasn't.
Hatate race looked well run, so surprised calmac wasn't used in his role, yet Bitton, I don't believe would have improved our tempo, so the unanswered question still remains in what guchi brings to the table, as Ange seems he can't fully trust him yet in a very important position within the set up of the team.
Most surprised sub not used was the option of ralston imo.
Taylor is still not renowned for his attacking play, and his link up play with Jota is still not as good as it is with josip imo.
Yet on the right side Abada and ralston have linked up on a good few occasions in creating goals and providing chances, and ralston still provides an extra edge upon any set play and no stranger to getting into the area, to even score a goal.
Hindsight remains easier after the event without any knowledge about how the outcome would have proved, yet the decision making at the time isn't so straightforward when just that one moment changes everything.
It's what the beauty of football brings, and turned out to be a lovely day overall, even if the remains of concern are all fully justifed imo.
Spherical Planet
Well-known member
I don't think anyone is above criticism, John and that definitely includes Ange.
As far as results go, there have been plenty of times when I would have bit your hand off for a point at Easter Road. It was the bang average performance that was an issue, not necessarily the result.
Ange is now faced with a situation which he has never likely faced before. He now manages a club that treats an away draw like a home defeat and that's quite a different scenario from what he's previously experienced.
There were a lot of factors to figure into Sunday's game. Few aches and pains, bit of fatigue and a stupid lunchtime kick-off against a Hibs side probably trying to prove a point.
Ange probably looked at it after an hour and decided to stick rather than twist. In his mind it was likely a point gained as opposed to two lost. However - when something obviously isn't working, sometimes you have to bite down on your principles and try something a little different.
I don't know if introducing Kara would have made any noticeable difference, perhaps it requires a formation change and not just personnel at times. I'm sure Ange will be aware of the huge challenge that managing Celtic presents and if he wasn't aware before, then he certainly will know now that winning matches = happy punters
boab1916
Well-known member
Bang on just a wage manager looking to keep his job and tbh i have nothing against this style of play we saw, just spare us the nonesense we read re attacking teams and managers with a focus on football only, its dog eat dog and that means a closed defensive shop approach when they play Celtic. We have our own role to play to and sometimes it can be ugly.
boab1916
Well-known member
Still a few players amiss who would be suited to the style of game we saw yesterday. Turnbull and Kyogo would have made a difference, Turnbull when linked in has a shot in him and freekick Kyogo takes away the slow time wasting by putting pressure on both defenders and goalkeepers and making them play rash passes.
Agreed 100% SP.
There is a tendacy within the modern game, with all these fancy formations, gameplans set in stone etc etc that when the pressure comes on at this stage of a season, you can get more of a robotic performance from a player moreso than the one able to express himself more so, earlier in the season imo.
The result is all that really counts, and still more of a focus upon moments being created within a game nowadays with gameplans remaining king still.
Never will understand why a team like ourselves have to remain at only having one arrow to our bow as such, when you take into account the huge difference teams can set up within the SPFL and even moreso in European football.
Of course it's totally acceptable this season for what Ange inherited.
Yet it still leaves the question of what do the coaching staff actually do, when everything is being set in stone, and nothing convinces me that anything as such is been done upon set plays at both ends of the pitch still?
In the last few games imo, we have looked like a man short in the midfield area, yet to change that would call upon a total change in formation, with possibly having to go with a 3 at the back to still keep tabs with Ange attacking physiology.
So how long does it really take to coach a new potential formation into a professional footballer these days?
Still got plenty of options available to change if the case arises but very rarely would you ever see a celtic team nowadays ever take up that option, and one I still don't understand.
We had the winter break, plus 3 games already since when we could have tried different things but decided not to take up the opportunity.
Robotic performances could well become the normal to the end of the season but if they deliver the right results who really cares
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Winter
Well-known member
Aye second that like you said johnno, this season who cares results are paramount but that is a 1 season honeymoon period and certainly wont be the case next season.
I would think that for all the domestic dominance Rodgers had for us setting an unbeaten british record ( broke our own record) yet the punters were frothing at the mouth with his possession at all costs.
Record defeats in Europe and tiki-taka sidey- ways and backwards.
Supporters will imo be patient with Ange even in season 2 but there has to be more quality recruits and if/when there is , the players who arrive must be capable of angeball and tactical changes.
The fans wont accept a one trick pony , not at this club certainly not if the players are in place which right now they arent despite 2 windows I've never seen the likes of before. There must be more.
Hard to criticise now tbf when the 1st window was a complete overhaul, the second was additional recruits and impressive to get the number of players in that we did in the January window, a window that's notoriously difficult to get quality in the door.
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