Orange Flute Band from Musselburgh marching about like Trumpton soldiers outside Parliament.

[Shadow2]

People on here talking about what Scotland want or voted for. Bullshit! There was no Scottish, Welsh, Irish or English vote. It was a uk vote and the people voted to leave. End of story.
As for the SNP. They are full of shit about independence. The last time they based their sums on oil revenue which prices hit the floor soon afterwards. They don't tell us how the figures will add up.
There's a very good reason for that. The figures don't add up. Simple.
I suppose some will be upset what i write but so be it.
HH?

Bullshit how Steviebhoy? Does it not matter what the people of Scotland and NI want? Does it not matter that our country's economy, our people's livelihoods, our people's rights and the future prospects of our young will be damaged and disadvantaged for generations by something WE didn't want or vote for? Does it not matter that once again, like happens in EVERY UK General Election, we always end up getting what the English electorate vote for and not what we vote for?

Why should the citizens of another nation always decide the future of mine? Why should a government that the people of this country don't vote for, especially one which is in the eternal grip of a corrupt establishment that couldn't give the slightest fuck about this country other than what wealth and resources they can plunder from it, be allowed to continue to damage and disadvantage it to ensure the supremacy of another? You might be OK with that but I and many others are far from OK with it! This is NOT a Union, it's dominion and Brexit is just another example of that.

I've also got to correct you on this because it's categorically untrue, the SNP did NOT base all their sums on oil revenues, that was a knowingly false narrative trotted out by the UK Government, the 'Better Together' campaign and a compliant UK media to damage the case for Independence. In fact the oil revenue projections in the SNP's White Paper (a detailed strategy for the future of an Independent Scotland, something Cameron and his cronies didn't even consider drawing up for the UK when they called the EU Ref) were deliberately valued well below market prices at the time because of the instability and volatile nature of the global oil market. Incidentally the reasons behind the oil market being so volatile and unstable is the continuous manipulation of it by governments, especially those of the US, the UK and their Middle Eastern allies who head up OPEC as a way of maintaining their economic dominance on the world stage.

You say the sums don't add up, well that all depends on WHO'S sums you believe and since there are vested interests on both sides of the Independence debate it's usually wise to look beyond the headlines and the media spin to the detail. I can assure you Scotland is an extremely wealthy little nation with an abundance of resources at it's disposal (why else would the UK Government be desperate for us to remain in the UK if we're such a drain on their finances like they claim) which are unparalleled by any other nation similar in size and population and our current £13bn deficit is a consequence of being part of this so called Union not a reason for remaining in it.

You don't like the SNP and that's fair enough Steviebhoy I get it, that's your right and I have NO issue with that at all. Fuck there are a few things about them I don't like but I beg you to look past the headlines and the spin to the actual detail when it comes to the Independence question. Treat what you hear on the news and read in the rags about the pitfalls of it with the same suspicion you would when these very same bastards and their ilk are mouthing off about the Tic. DON'T take what self-confessed Unionists say at face value, and that includes those of the Labour persuasion, fact check their claims from independent sources then make your mind up. You'll be very surprised at what you'll find.

HH Steviebhoy.

 

[michael duffy]

Bullshit how Steviebhoy? Does it not matter what the people of Scotland and NI want? Does it not matter that our country's economy, our people's livelihoods, our people's rights and the future prospects of our young will be damaged and disadvantaged for generations by something WE didn't want or vote for? Does it not matter that once again, like happens in EVERY UK General Election, we always end up getting what the English electorate vote for and not what we vote for?

Why should the citizens of another nation always decide the future of mine? Why should a government that the people of this country don't vote for, especially one which is in the eternal grip of a corrupt establishment that couldn't give the slightest fuck about this country other than what wealth and resources they can plunder from it, be allowed to continue to damage and disadvantage it to ensure the supremacy of another? You might be OK with that but I and many others are far from OK with it! This is NOT a Union, it's dominion and Brexit is just another example of that.

I've also got to correct you on this because it's categorically untrue, the SNP did NOT base all their sums on oil revenues, that was a knowingly false narrative trotted out by the UK Government, the 'Better Together' campaign and a compliant UK media to damage the case for Independence. In fact the oil revenue projections in the SNP's White Paper (a detailed strategy for the future of an Independent Scotland, something Cameron and his cronies didn't even consider drawing up for the UK when they called the EU Ref) were deliberately valued well below market prices at the time because of the instability and volatile nature of the global oil market. Incidentally the reasons behind the oil market being so volatile and unstable is the continuous manipulation of it by governments, especially those of the US, the UK and their Middle Eastern allies who head up OPEC as a way of maintaining their economic dominance on the world stage.

You say the sums don't add up, well that all depends on WHO'S sums you believe and since there are vested interests on both sides of the Independence debate it's usually wise to look beyond the headlines and the media spin to the detail. I can assure you Scotland is an extremely wealthy little nation with an abundance of resources at it's disposal (why else would the UK Government be desperate for us to remain in the UK if we're such a drain on their finances like they claim) which are unparalleled by any other nation similar in size and population and our current £13bn deficit is a consequence of being part of this so called Union not a reason for remaining in it.

You don't like the SNP and that's fair enough Steviebhoy I get it, that's your right and I have NO issue with that at all. Fuck there are a few things about them I don't like but I beg you to look past the headlines and the spin to the actual detail when it comes to the Independence question. Treat what you hear on the news and read in the rags about the pitfalls of it with the same suspicion you would when these very same bastards and their ilk are mouthing off about the Tic. DON'T take what self-confessed Unionists say at face value, and that includes those of the Labour persuasion, fact check their claims from independent sources then make your mind up. You'll be very surprised at what you'll find.

HH Steviebhoy.

View attachment 2103 View attachment 2104

spot on Andy HH!

 

[Shadow2]

spot on Andy HH!

HH MD.

 

[DILLIGAF]

HH MD.

I second that
HH

 

[michael duffy]

HH MD.

this song angered me Andy, when i first heard it and realised the truth of it

 

[kelly]

Remember that woodward twat claiming the oil fields would run out, not as many years left in them that the pesky snp claimed .

And then they all magically got bigger and new fields found ,that Scotlands some place sitting on all that oil

All those so called experts who changed their figures in the run up to the 2014 all got granted shale gas licences

In Scotland

 

[TartanTim]

Bullshit how Steviebhoy? Does it not matter what the people of Scotland and NI want? Does it not matter that our country's economy, our people's livelihoods, our people's rights and the future prospects of our young will be damaged and disadvantaged for generations by something WE didn't want or vote for? Does it not matter that once again, like happens in EVERY UK General Election, we always end up getting what the English electorate vote for and not what we vote for?

Why should the citizens of another nation always decide the future of mine? Why should a government that the people of this country don't vote for, especially one which is in the eternal grip of a corrupt establishment that couldn't give the slightest fuck about this country other than what wealth and resources they can plunder from it, be allowed to continue to damage and disadvantage it to ensure the supremacy of another? You might be OK with that but I and many others are far from OK with it! This is NOT a Union, it's dominion and Brexit is just another example of that.

I've also got to correct you on this because it's categorically untrue, the SNP did NOT base all their sums on oil revenues, that was a knowingly false narrative trotted out by the UK Government, the 'Better Together' campaign and a compliant UK media to damage the case for Independence. In fact the oil revenue projections in the SNP's White Paper (a detailed strategy for the future of an Independent Scotland, something Cameron and his cronies didn't even consider drawing up for the UK when they called the EU Ref) were deliberately valued well below market prices at the time because of the instability and volatile nature of the global oil market. Incidentally the reasons behind the oil market being so volatile and unstable is the continuous manipulation of it by governments, especially those of the US, the UK and their Middle Eastern allies who head up OPEC as a way of maintaining their economic dominance on the world stage.

You say the sums don't add up, well that all depends on WHO'S sums you believe and since there are vested interests on both sides of the Independence debate it's usually wise to look beyond the headlines and the media spin to the detail. I can assure you Scotland is an extremely wealthy little nation with an abundance of resources at it's disposal (why else would the UK Government be desperate for us to remain in the UK if we're such a drain on their finances like they claim) which are unparalleled by any other nation similar in size and population and our current £13bn deficit is a consequence of being part of this so called Union not a reason for remaining in it.

You don't like the SNP and that's fair enough Steviebhoy I get it, that's your right and I have NO issue with that at all. Fuck there are a few things about them I don't like but I beg you to look past the headlines and the spin to the actual detail when it comes to the Independence question. Treat what you hear on the news and read in the rags about the pitfalls of it with the same suspicion you would when these very same bastards and their ilk are mouthing off about the Tic. DON'T take what self-confessed Unionists say at face value, and that includes those of the Labour persuasion, fact check their claims from independent sources then make your mind up. You'll be very surprised at what you'll find.

HH Steviebhoy.

View attachment 2103 View attachment 2104

Bullshit how Steviebhoy? Does it not matter what the people of Scotland and NI want? Does it not matter that our country's economy, our people's livelihoods, our people's rights and the future prospects of our young will be damaged and disadvantaged for generations by something WE didn't want or vote for? Does it not matter that once again, like happens in EVERY UK General Election, we always end up getting what the English electorate vote for and not what we vote for?

Why should the citizens of another nation always decide the future of mine? Why should a government that the people of this country don't vote for, especially one which is in the eternal grip of a corrupt establishment that couldn't give the slightest fuck about this country other than what wealth and resources they can plunder from it, be allowed to continue to damage and disadvantage it to ensure the supremacy of another? You might be OK with that but I and many others are far from OK with it! This is NOT a Union, it's dominion and Brexit is just another example of that.

I've also got to correct you on this because it's categorically untrue, the SNP did NOT base all their sums on oil revenues, that was a knowingly false narrative trotted out by the UK Government, the 'Better Together' campaign and a compliant UK media to damage the case for Independence. In fact the oil revenue projections in the SNP's White Paper (a detailed strategy for the future of an Independent Scotland, something Cameron and his cronies didn't even consider drawing up for the UK when they called the EU Ref) were deliberately valued well below market prices at the time because of the instability and volatile nature of the global oil market. Incidentally the reasons behind the oil market being so volatile and unstable is the continuous manipulation of it by governments, especially those of the US, the UK and their Middle Eastern allies who head up OPEC as a way of maintaining their economic dominance on the world stage.

You say the sums don't add up, well that all depends on WHO'S sums you believe and since there are vested interests on both sides of the Independence debate it's usually wise to look beyond the headlines and the media spin to the detail. I can assure you Scotland is an extremely wealthy little nation with an abundance of resources at it's disposal (why else would the UK Government be desperate for us to remain in the UK if we're such a drain on their finances like they claim) which are unparalleled by any other nation similar in size and population and our current £13bn deficit is a consequence of being part of this so called Union not a reason for remaining in it.

You don't like the SNP and that's fair enough Steviebhoy I get it, that's your right and I have NO issue with that at all. Fuck there are a few things about them I don't like but I beg you to look past the headlines and the spin to the actual detail when it comes to the Independence question. Treat what you hear on the news and read in the rags about the pitfalls of it with the same suspicion you would when these very same bastards and their ilk are mouthing off about the Tic. DON'T take what self-confessed Unionists say at face value, and that includes those of the Labour persuasion, fact check their claims from independent sources then make your mind up. You'll be very surprised at what you'll find.

HH Steviebhoy.

View attachment 2103 View attachment 2104

Superb ????

Also don't forget the annual GERS figures of Scotland kindly compiled by UK Treasury, estimated figures added together to keep the Jocks in line & in their place.

Westminster has been robing Scotland since 1707, Scotland was apparently skint & needed England to bail it out. But if England was so rich, why in 1689 did they borrow £100,000 from the Vatican for KBs war?

Also the great part of being in UK is we get the nukes, fvckin great deterrent. No fvckin use against suicide bombers or fvckwits intent on killing people

 

[kelly]

it's a shite state of affairs

 

[Shadow2]

this song angered me Andy, when i first heard it and realised the truth of it

A great song that nails the reality of our situation as a country MD 'We beg for a piece of what's already ours'. We hand over our wealth and our resources to prop up a corrupt system which has another nation's interests at it's core and we are then expected to be grateful when they hand some of it back!

If that's not bad enough we're then treated with disdain and contempt at every opportunity, labelled 'subsidy junkies' and told how THEY are subsidising US when the complete opposite is true

That's the thing MD as a country we've had 312 years of conditioning, being told how we are too wee, too poor and incapable of governing ourselves properly and that we need the 'benevolent' guiding hand of another country's establishment to protect us from ourselves and others. What other country in the world would stand for such shit?

It beggars belief that a nation such as ourselves, with a highly educated populace, an embarrassing abundance of resources and infrastructure that most nations our size can only dream of has half the population believing we are somehow uniquely incapable of standing on our own two feet.

HH MD.

 

[michael duffy]

A great song that nails the reality of our situation as a country MD 'We beg for a piece of what's already ours'. We hand over our wealth and our resources to prop up a corrupt system which has another nation's interests at it's core and we are then expected to be grateful when they hand some of it back!

If that's not bad enough we're then treated with disdain and contempt at every opportunity, labelled 'subsidy junkies' and told how THEY are subsidising US when the complete opposite is true

That's the thing MD as a country we've had 312 years of conditioning, being told how we are too wee, too poor and incapable of governing ourselves properly and that we need the 'benevolent' guiding hand of another country's establishment to protect us from ourselves and others. What other country in the world would stand for such shit?

It beggars belief that a nation such as ourselves, with a highly educated populace, an embarrassing abundance of resources and infrastructure that most nations our size can only dream of has half the population believing we are somehow uniquely incapable of standing on our own two feet.

HH MD.

you said it Andy,what will it take for us to say enough's enough! we must be the only country in the world to reject independence!!

 

[Shadow2]

Superb ????

Also don't forget the annual GERS figures of Scotland kindly compiled by UK Treasury, estimated figures added together to keep the Jocks in line & in their place.

Westminster has been robing Scotland since 1707, Scotland was apparently skint & needed England to bail it out. But if England was so rich, why in 1689 did they borrow £100,000 from the Vatican for KBs war?

Also the great part of being in UK is we get the nukes, fvckin great deterrent. No fvckin use against suicide bombers or fvckwits intent on killing people

Spot on TartanTim.

The 'estimated' GERS figures are a steaming pile of gerrymandered shite based on figures provided by none other than the UK Government's own Office for National Statistics.

They should in NO way be trusted as a true reflection of the state of the Scottish economy or used to forecast the viability of an Independent Scotland for obvious reasons. The main ones being that the figures are compiled by the very people who want to portray us as dependent on the wider UK and deny us our independence and that they only give estimates of Scotland's economy within the UK system and NOT what they would be if Scotland was independent.

HH TT.

 

[Shadow2]

Remember that woodward twat claiming the oil fields would run out, not as many years left in them that the pesky snp claimed .

And then they all magically got bigger and new fields found ,that Scotlands some place sitting on all that oil

All those so called experts who changed their figures in the run up to the 2014 all got granted shale gas licences

In Scotland

100 % Spot on Kelly.

Oil tycoon Ian Wood was a favourite of the UK Government and the NO Campaign, always popping up on our screens to give us his 'impartial expert' views on how the oil was running dry and the industry was on the decline in Scotland.

Yet lo and behold after the NO campaign triumphed vast new oil fields were discovered in Scottish waters, Ian Wood was awarded a knighthood by the Queen and his company was awarded lucrative new licences to drill in the North Sea that is currently earning them billions.

This also happened just weeks before the referendum vote and was subsequently buried till after the vote took place......

 

[Ally]

OK bhoys and ghirls, being looking through the posts on this thread, agree with some and disagree with others. SCOTTISH INDEPENDANCE comes at a huge price. When will we break even? Would we need a Euro bailout? Would our border be hard or soft with England presuming we applied to become member of European Union. I ask these questions because I'm not so convinced we have the finance, infrastructure, and most importantly the will to go it alone. HH.

 

[The Shamrock]

OK bhoys and ghirls, being looking through the posts on this thread, agree with some and disagree with others. SCOTTISH INDEPENDANCE comes at a huge price. When will we break even? Would we need a Euro bailout? Would our border be hard or soft with England presuming we applied to become member of European Union. I ask these questions because I'm not so convinced we have the finance, infrastructure, and most importantly the will to go it alone. HH.

Anything's better than being ruled by the Government that the English foist upon us.

 

[Ally]

Anything's better than being ruled by the Government that the English foist upon us.

Respect Shammy, but we all know that Scotland is reliant on not just only foreign investment but English. How many companies do we rely on that is English. Life insurance car insurance, the list goes on and on. Now we get our independence and its looking at our own Scottish companies who are affiliated with English companies and English law. I for one will say to Shammy with all due respect as one of my greatest friends on here, let's all take a back seat and really think all of this through with that great Scottish brain of ours. If we can and mean CAN really make independence work for us then I will say this let's do it. But let's all be in or none at all. Respect to everyone with different views, I will always respect and take note of everyone's opinion. God bless you all. HH

 

[CelticRose]

Bullshit how Steviebhoy? Does it not matter what the people of Scotland and NI want? Does it not matter that our country's economy, our people's livelihoods, our people's rights and the future prospects of our young will be damaged and disadvantaged for generations by something WE didn't want or vote for? Does it not matter that once again, like happens in EVERY UK General Election, we always end up getting what the English electorate vote for and not what we vote for?

Why should the citizens of another nation always decide the future of mine? Why should a government that the people of this country don't vote for, especially one which is in the eternal grip of a corrupt establishment that couldn't give the slightest fuck about this country other than what wealth and resources they can plunder from it, be allowed to continue to damage and disadvantage it to ensure the supremacy of another? You might be OK with that but I and many others are far from OK with it! This is NOT a Union, it's dominion and Brexit is just another example of that.

I've also got to correct you on this because it's categorically untrue, the SNP did NOT base all their sums on oil revenues, that was a knowingly false narrative trotted out by the UK Government, the 'Better Together' campaign and a compliant UK media to damage the case for Independence. In fact the oil revenue projections in the SNP's White Paper (a detailed strategy for the future of an Independent Scotland, something Cameron and his cronies didn't even consider drawing up for the UK when they called the EU Ref) were deliberately valued well below market prices at the time because of the instability and volatile nature of the global oil market. Incidentally the reasons behind the oil market being so volatile and unstable is the continuous manipulation of it by governments, especially those of the US, the UK and their Middle Eastern allies who head up OPEC as a way of maintaining their economic dominance on the world stage.

You say the sums don't add up, well that all depends on WHO'S sums you believe and since there are vested interests on both sides of the Independence debate it's usually wise to look beyond the headlines and the media spin to the detail. I can assure you Scotland is an extremely wealthy little nation with an abundance of resources at it's disposal (why else would the UK Government be desperate for us to remain in the UK if we're such a drain on their finances like they claim) which are unparalleled by any other nation similar in size and population and our current £13bn deficit is a consequence of being part of this so called Union not a reason for remaining in it.

You don't like the SNP and that's fair enough Steviebhoy I get it, that's your right and I have NO issue with that at all. Fuck there are a few things about them I don't like but I beg you to look past the headlines and the spin to the actual detail when it comes to the Independence question. Treat what you hear on the news and read in the rags about the pitfalls of it with the same suspicion you would when these very same bastards and their ilk are mouthing off about the Tic. DON'T take what self-confessed Unionists say at face value, and that includes those of the Labour persuasion, fact check their claims from independent sources then make your mind up. You'll be very surprised at what you'll find.

HH Steviebhoy.

View attachment 2103 View attachment 2104

What an excellent post Andybhoy88!
Totally agree with every word you wrote.

I haven’t watched question time for years now, but on Thursday after all the hullabaloo of the no brexit on tv I ended up watching it. Yanis Varoufakis an economist and author was a guest.

He explained that there are things going on in the British economy that cannot be pinned on a Brexit. He considers the British Business Model to be broken and that Britain are depending on capital infusion from strangers and foreigners. This means the British Model is relying on low wages, little or no regulation and Zero hours contracts and an ideology of cheapness. This is not a good future for Britain either with or without a Brexit.

He continued by saying much needs to be considered before we can have a people’s debate on a Brexit. It might b3 worthwhile to get this up on catch up tv and have a listen BBC 1 Thursday . He also goes on to say that this is an English problem as they were left disenfranchised by Tony Blair’s incomplete devolution. It’s not a Scottish or a northern Irish problem it’s an English problem.

So independence seems to me the best way forward for a more progressive standard of living than what we are facing just now staying part of the UK where I feel we are going to be worse off.

 

[DILLIGAF]

Politics, like football, is such an emotive subject
I believe Scotland would thrive, as an independent country
The Tories and what passes for Labour in Scotland will do everything to undermine, the only party that is fighting Scotland's corner
It's ok to disagree with people who support the SNP, but when it's all said and done, we want what is best for Scotland and it's people and we know that is not the Tories/Red Tories
Not one country that was foremrly under British Rule, has wanted to go back after gaining it's independence
HH

 

[DILLIGAF]

What an excellent post Andybhoy88!
Totally agree with every word you wrote.

I haven’t watched question time for years now, but on Thursday after all the hullabaloo of the no brexit on tv I ended up watching it. Yanis Varoufakis an economist and author was a guest.

He explained that there are things going on in the British economy that cannot be pinned on a Brexit. He considers the British Business Model to be broken and that Britain are depending on capital infusion from strangers and foreigners. This means the British Model is relying on low wages, little or no regulation and Zero hours contracts and an ideology of cheapness. This is not a good future for Britain either with or without a Brexit.

He continued by saying much needs to be considered before we can have a people’s debate on a Brexit. It might b3 worthwhile to get this up on catch up tv and have a listen BBC 1 Thursday . He also goes on to say that this is an English problem as they were left disenfranchised by Tony Blair’s incomplete devolution. It’s not a Scottish or a northern Irish problem it’s an English problem.

So independence seems to me the best way forward for a more progressive standard of living than what we are facing just now staying part of the UK where I feel we are going to be worse off.

Well said, Rose
Agree with you 100%

 

[Ally]

Let's get to the bottom of INDEPENDANCE. What sort of independence do you want? Me I want an independence of indepentancy. No Queen no commonwealth. But SNP demands Queen as figurehead in an I dependant Scotland. They need the orange vote or their is no so called independence. I am so against this so called independence that's why I back a Republic without the English crown(Or German). We are all so much better than this guys let's go for a Republic Scotland and don't go down the route of Eamonn De Valera.their still fighting for a united Ireland. I know Ireland is different but I want a Republic of Scotland straight away rather than wait till we are all dead and buried. HH ?????????????????????

 

[Theverdict1]

Let's get to the bottom of INDEPENDANCE. What sort of independence do you want? Me I want an independence of indepentancy. No Queen no commonwealth. But SNP demands Queen as figurehead in an I dependant Scotland. They need the orange vote or their is no so called independence. I am so against this so called independence that's why I back a Republic without the English crown(Or German). We are all so much better than this guys let's go for a Republic Scotland and don't go down the route of Eamonn De Valera.their still fighting for a united Ireland. I know Ireland is different but I want a Republic of Scotland straight away rather than wait till we are all dead and buried. HH ?????????????????????

Let’s win a battle at a time.