Rebel songs

scotcel

Active member
I felt sorry for Judas. He was destined to grass up Jesus or he wouldn't have been crucified. A but harsh I always felt if you believe God knew all. If he did Judas was placed to do what he did. It was god's will, so in effect god grassed himself up.
Watching the History channel yesterday. They informed me that the 4 gospels by Mathew, Mark Luke & John.
Were written 300 years after JC was on earth.
If you can solve that Delmer, the next one for you religious people was the Science Channel presented by Hawkins (who has now died) he said science has proved this earth is over 4'5 Billion years old, yes that was Billions. If its that old where were all the gods?
 

TET

Well-known member
Watching the History channel yesterday. They informed me that the 4 gospels by Mathew, Mark Luke & John.
Were written 300 years after JC was on earth.
If you can solve that Delmer, the next one for you religious people was the Science Channel presented by Hawkins (who has now died) he said science has proved this earth is over 4'5 Billion years old, yes that was Billions. If its that old where were all the gods?
The gospels were written between 60AD and 95AD

They were preached in oral form from the death and resurrection of Christ till present.

The bible was not created till sometime after 300AD at the commission of the Church hierarchy since so many individual writings that were not christian were claiming to be authentic.

St Matthew was an apostle
St Luke was a doctor, proper doctor and the disciple of St Paul (Saul of Tarsus- the once terror of the church converted on the road to Damascus by Christ himself while he was heading to find and murder Christians).
St Mark was the disciple of St Peter and the first Bishop of Egypt
St John was the beloved Apostle who looked after Christs mother from the time of the crucifixion.

All these things are easily researched.

St Polycarp of Smyrna and St Ignatius of Antioch, both murdered by the Romans in the early 100s ad were writing about the gospels with quotes in their letters to other Bishops.

Now the History channel hosts a whole series of non historical gash these days. And a lot of the gash it produces is sponsored by Zionist organisations which are mostly anti christian sponsors.

The Church sprung up in Apostolic form from the death of christ, thats easily found from Roman records.

Now whether that makes what they wrote true or not is another matter. But you would need to read it and relate it and relate to it to decide that.

The billions of years old, if true, and I have no clue, but if its true and time is relative, then maybe just maybe humanity only begun when humanity became human, whenever that might be.

Science has theories and share those theories and sometimes relative theories overrule past solid theories as understanding gets better.

But even in the scientific world there are some theories that never become anything more than theories and sometimes they are proven wrong by next generation then discarded

Scientific theories are no more than opinion backed by lots of empirical data.

But that needs a foundation to be fully data robust and unless we develop a reliable time machine the only thing they have is faith in their theories unless they are made scientific laws.

But you will find that Hawkins was sharing his theory (opinion based on his hard research) but there is no way that he ever said its factual, he just has faith in his theory.

Anyway hopefully ive given you some food for thought and a bit of research fever.

Whatever the truth is I wish you joy on your path.
 

Lubos left peg

Well-known member
I dont believe in god. Doesnt make me a hun, satanist, orange bastard or anything else. Just someone that doesnt believe in god.
I often wonder if the guy sitting in his cave or hut thousands and thousands of years ago realised the utter shit storm he was creating on this planet when he thought to himself one day.... "I cant be arsed hunting today, I know, I'll tell everyone that a voice spoke to me and told me that if everyone gets my food and does my bidding they will go to this amazing place, but only when they die...and if the dont they will go to this horrible place, only when they die"
Thousands of years later and millions upon millions of deaths and here we are. All thanks to some lazy cunt in a cave creating religion......
 

TET

Well-known member
I dont believe in god. Doesnt make me a hun, satanist, orange bastard or anything else. Just someone that doesnt believe in god.
I often wonder if the guy sitting in his cave or hut thousands and thousands of years ago realised the utter shit storm he was creating on this planet when he thought to himself one day.... "I cant be arsed hunting today, I know, I'll tell everyone that a voice spoke to me and told me that if everyone gets my food and does my bidding they will go to this amazing place, but only when they die...and if the dont they will go to this horrible place, only when they die"
Thousands of years later and millions upon millions of deaths and here we are. All thanks to some lazy cunt in a cave creating religion......
Thats one way of looking at it.

But still right and wrong are real.

Human spirit is real.

Intelligence is real.

Life is real.

Love is real.

Truth is real.

Some things aren't fit for purpose. Some things are. Some things are better. Some things can get even better. Everything has a hierarchy. The body has members. But the mind rules the body, or does the body rule the mind.

If God didn't make everything, was it always there? If so why does the Universe have a timeframe? Whats beyond time? Why is the Universe so perfectly aligned to create conditions that allow life? Why is their universal laws? Who decided gravity was a thing?

If there is no God. Then is good and bad nonsense? If its nonsense, why would any law be right? Why would order be better than chaos. Why would civilisation be better than barbarity.

Where did it come from?

Where cave men the same as us, or a different species?

How did they get life?

If we are just evolving bits of energy? Who directing the end game? What is perfection if it cannot exist.

Bad OK Good Better Best Perfect

Are some humans better?

Why would anything have a point?

I hear what your saying Lubo.

But perhaps, we were created?

I think its very likely. No one is same. All are identifiably different. Just so complex that its beyond our knowledge? Or is it?

Cavemen may have had time to think but maybe not. Too busy serving their purpose? But I bet even cavemen had some inclinations towards feelings and property and love. Might have been primitive with not much time other than trying to survive. But as culture advances and philosophy develops then its not far from wondering what its all about.

Maybe food for thought? But maybe its all just meaningless?
 

boab1916

Well-known member
I dont believe in god. Doesnt make me a hun, satanist, orange bastard or anything else. Just someone that doesnt believe in god.
I often wonder if the guy sitting in his cave or hut thousands and thousands of years ago realised the utter shit storm he was creating on this planet when he thought to himself one day.... "I cant be arsed hunting today, I know, I'll tell everyone that a voice spoke to me and told me that if everyone gets my food and does my bidding they will go to this amazing place, but only when they die...and if the dont they will go to this horrible place, only when they die"
Thousands of years later and millions upon millions of deaths and here we are. All thanks to some lazy cunt in a cave creating religion......
Maybe what you have described is early banking, let them bring their money to me and i will guard it for a profit for them and then use it to make more profit and if i lose it they will bail me out with more of their stupid money, what could go wrong once established.
WW1 and WW2 ..................3 on the horizon
 

Lubos left peg

Well-known member
Thats one way of looking at it.

But still right and wrong are real.

Human spirit is real.

Intelligence is real.

Life is real.

Love is real.

Truth is real.

Some things aren't fit for purpose. Some things are. Some things are better. Some things can get even better. Everything has a hierarchy. The body has members. But the mind rules the body, or does the body rule the mind.

If God didn't make everything, was it always there? If so why does the Universe have a timeframe? Whats beyond time? Why is the Universe so perfectly aligned to create conditions that allow life? Why is their universal laws? Who decided gravity was a thing?

If there is no God. Then is good and bad nonsense? If its nonsense, why would any law be right? Why would order be better than chaos. Why would civilisation be better than barbarity.

Where did it come from?

Where cave men the same as us, or a different species?

How did they get life?

If we are just evolving bits of energy? Who directing the end game? What is perfection if it cannot exist.

Bad OK Good Better Best Perfect

Are some humans better?

Why would anything have a point?

I hear what your saying Lubo.

But perhaps, we were created?

I think its very likely. No one is same. All are identifiably different. Just so complex that its beyond our knowledge? Or is it?

Cavemen may have had time to think but maybe not. Too busy serving their purpose? But I bet even cavemen had some inclinations towards feelings and property and love. Might have been primitive with not much time other than trying to survive. But as culture advances and philosophy develops then its not far from wondering what its all about.

Maybe food for thought? But maybe its all just meaningless?
Order and religion help people take power. They create wealth for some people. People cant grab power while there is chaos. Using religion, people can create controlled chaos.
I believe religion was created to make few people powerful and wealthy while controlling the masses "the fear of god is the beginning of wisdom"....I will get back to you on the proper quote and where it is in the bible as I dont remember....now that's what's wrote on my little girls school wall as she walks in everyday...where is the love in that statement. FEAR god and you are wise.
Maybe you are right, maybe I'm right...maybe TT is right....but the difference with me and religious people is that i wont try force everyone that my man in a cave theory is right. I wont tell people they havent seen the light. That they are daft or their eyes havent been opened.
I'm not catholic bashing...this goes for all religions. Isnt it funny that everyone's god or gods are the real ones. Someone's got to ge wrong. Havent they???
 

TET

Well-known member
Order and religion help people take power. They create wealth for some people. People cant grab power while there is chaos. Using religion, people can create controlled chaos.
I believe religion was created to make few people powerful and wealthy while controlling the masses "the fear of god is the beginning of wisdom"....I will get back to you on the proper quote and where it is in the bible as I dont remember....now that's what's wrote on my little girls school wall as she walks in everyday...where is the love in that statement. FEAR god and you are wise.
Maybe you are right, maybe I'm right...maybe TT is right....but the difference with me and religious people is that i wont try force everyone that my man in a cave theory is right. I wont tell people they havent seen the light. That they are daft or their eyes havent been opened.
I'm not catholic bashing...this goes for all religions. Isnt it funny that everyone's god or gods are the real ones. Someone's got to ge wrong. Havent they???
yes I agree to certain extent

It can be used or maybe abused and has been by many charlatans.

But its hard to decide who has the answers or none without delving into it.

I have my path
It was different in the past.
I may be deluding myself but I think freedom, true freedom allows people to research in their own way or not at all.

Thats freedom. I think if its for you then it will bug you enough to do something about it.

Virtue does appear to be real and has degrees. As does vice, imo.

Now one guys virtue might conflict with another opinion on the subject. But again imo, 1 is better than the other universally even if its not universally accepted.

The search for the perfection of virtue and where it leads can be blocked by human culture or by necessity to deal with in the moment issues.

But again there is a hierarchy of necessity even if its culturally or politically conflicted.

To stop looking for the truth if you have the time available, then you certainly won't find the truth of it all.

Dont take anybodies word on it. Certainly not mine. But researching it is good imo since if you have clean heart free from life burdensome in the moment needs then it would be virtuous. Since I think that meditation on what is the truth is the foundation of virtue and from there you can try building up with reasonings.

You may find that your instinct was right and it is all keek. But you might find something in your new thoughts that makes you want to seek a little deeper.

Now my faith is built on my life experiences and self reflection and meditation on is this right or wrong?

Perhaps my conditioning and culture and life have led me down a bad path.

Perhaps the purpose of life needs that conflict to lead to becoming better and understanding what is right and wrong on higher levels.

Now I believe there are bad religious and its possible some not so religious are actually less evil than the religious.

But the non religious good people are imo following a certain code that must be in their heart which is virtuous.

And if virtue in the heart is meditated upon it leads to seeking further and refining towards something even better. Which is true religion.

So the non religious person who is a good man must be virtuous somehow.

And if they try get better in virtue then they are actually pious.

Lets take being a football player. to be the best football player you can be requires religious virtuous endeavour. training hard, using the gifts you received and refining them both physically and mentally. Now that training is religion.

But some football players aren't very virtuous but very talented naturally. But sometimes the less talented man can become better than the talented man by being more virtuous in his application.

If the virtuous guy can convince the non virtuous footballer to try harder and be more virtuous then he is doing the dude some service making his talent really better.

Now it can work other way.

You might have a really talented virtuous player who meets a lazy non talented player. And the lazy dude convinces the good player to abandon his virtuous course.

So in that case the bad habits of the non virtuous player has made football little less.

imo I think that works with all professions and hobbies and life.

Which means imo one religion is better than the rest. And it can only be found by searching rather than just culturally accepting the conditioning that has been nailed into the heart by bad people.

I am convinced the world is created from my research but that doesn't me its true.

But I do think my faith grows just like muscles when exercised
I have hope and hope that leads to perseverance in face of cultural blocks and I genuinely believe it makes me understand virtue better.

But I could be deluding myself.

But I keep trying and meditating on the truth of it all, which is a kind of prayer, imo.

Even the scientists who claim they are convinced God does not exist are really just having faith in their way of searching the truth. Some of them may be bad scientists and they may be wrong. But I think its important that they to try convince you of their truth if they genuinely think its the truth.

It may well be. Anyway that may not be useful. But who knows.

I dont believe in a bloke in the clouds with thunder bolts.

But I do believe that God is the truth and I am trying to meditate on the truth which imo is God.

:p
 

Theverdict1

Well-known member
Thats one way of looking at it.

But still right and wrong are real.

Human spirit is real.

Intelligence is real.

Life is real.

Love is real.

Truth is real.

Some things aren't fit for purpose. Some things are. Some things are better. Some things can get even better. Everything has a hierarchy. The body has members. But the mind rules the body, or does the body rule the mind.

If God didn't make everything, was it always there? If so why does the Universe have a timeframe? Whats beyond time? Why is the Universe so perfectly aligned to create conditions that allow life? Why is their universal laws? Who decided gravity was a thing?

If there is no God. Then is good and bad nonsense? If its nonsense, why would any law be right? Why would order be better than chaos. Why would civilisation be better than barbarity.

Where did it come from?

Where cave men the same as us, or a different species?

How did they get life?

If we are just evolving bits of energy? Who directing the end game? What is perfection if it cannot exist.

Bad OK Good Better Best Perfect

Are some humans better?

Why would anything have a point?

I hear what your saying Lubo.

But perhaps, we were created?

I think its very likely. No one is same. All are identifiably different. Just so complex that its beyond our knowledge? Or is it?

Cavemen may have had time to think but maybe not. Too busy serving their purpose? But I bet even cavemen had some inclinations towards feelings and property and love. Might have been primitive with not much time other than trying to survive. But as culture advances and philosophy develops then its not far from wondering what its all about.

Maybe food for thought? But maybe its all just meaningless?
So where did god come from? The real one you believe in, the Catholic one? Didn't mention anything in the Bible about an organised church, celibate priests, confession, pope's, cardinals, purgetory, no fish on a Friday, Mary only mentioned three times. Religious apologists are fond to ask how came something come from nothing, except when they talk about their version of the god they grew up being conditioned to believe in. Funny how every single person who believes in god or god's believes as fervently as you do their version is correct. Funny that and what are the odds?
 

TET

Well-known member
So where did god come from? The real one you believe in, the Catholic one? Didn't mention anything in the Bible about an organised church, celibate priests, confession, pope's, cardinals, purgetory, no fish on a Friday, Mary only mentioned three times. Religious apologists are fond to ask how came something come from nothing, except when they talk about their version of the god they grew up being conditioned to believe in. Funny how every single person who believes in god or god's believes as fervently as you do their version is correct. Funny that and what are the odds?
Thats what about this then TV

:p
 

TET

Well-known member
So where did god come from? The real one you believe in, the Catholic one? Didn't mention anything in the Bible about an organised church, celibate priests, confession, pope's, cardinals, purgetory, no fish on a Friday, Mary only mentioned three times. Religious apologists are fond to ask how came something come from nothing, except when they talk about their version of the god they grew up being conditioned to believe in. Funny how every single person who believes in god or god's believes as fervently as you do their version is correct. Funny that and what are the odds?
Do you try to be the best you can be?

My path to doing that currently is the saints of virtue of the Catholic Church.

And I trust them the more I read their writings.

You dont and choose a different path.

I wish you joy and peace on your path.
 

TET

Well-known member
So where did god come from? The real one you believe in, the Catholic one? Didn't mention anything in the Bible about an organised church, celibate priests, confession, pope's, cardinals, purgetory, no fish on a Friday, Mary only mentioned three times. Religious apologists are fond to ask how came something come from nothing, except when they talk about their version of the god they grew up being conditioned to believe in. Funny how every single person who believes in god or god's believes as fervently as you do their version is correct. Funny that and what are the odds?
You can find the answers to all these questions in the writings and the sacred traditions of the church written by the holy saints on the ways of virtue and beatitudes.



The bible does mention that the scriptures dont hold all the traditions of christ.

Christ does say stop sinning and have faith and love.

He did institute the sacraments according to the full deposit of faith.

And if you research it then you can find out where when and how and believe it or not if you research it and then read the scriptures you might see the answers you never ever thought were there.

trust and confidence are part of faith
Without faith you cant persevere in hope
And without perceiving in hope you cannot find the truth of absolute love and life

Which all require diligent action in virtue.

Something I lack badly but I haven't given up hope of the beatitudes of christ and will keep seeking

:p
 

Theverdict1

Well-known member
You can find the answers to all these questions in the writings and the sacred traditions of the church written by the holy saints on the ways of virtue and beatitudes.



The bible does mention that the scriptures dont hold all the traditions of christ.

Christ does say stop sinning and have faith and love.

He did institute the sacraments according to the full deposit of faith.

And if you research it then you can find out where when and how and believe it or not if you research it and then read the scriptures you might see the answers you never ever thought were there.

trust and confidence are part of faith
Without faith you cant persevere in hope
And without perceiving in hope you cannot find the truth of absolute love and life

Which all require diligent action in virtue.

Something I lack badly but I haven't given up hope of the beatitudes of christ and will keep seeking

:p
You seem to rely on Catholic saints who came after Jesus alleged death and ressurection. How can their interpretation of what happened be taken over the Bible. They are mortal. Then there's the Big Book itself.

Bursting at the seams with contradictions of the same alleged godly messages. How does that happen with a supreme mind guiding it? It can't.

Here's a few dozen at least, glaring contradictions that anyone can find by reading the book.


If you only see what you want to see you deny the problems with its claim to truth. It's a man made book littered with human error and misinterpretation that continues to this day with nearly 45,000 denominations of the same book. Funny how god's word is so confusing and contradictory that so many men can decide what it means in so many different ways. Every single denomination thinks they have it right. Then there's the countless other non Christians thinking they alone have the god/s thing right..of course, you will dismiss their claims because you too have certainty of your position. Seems to me god, let's face it, wasnt all knowing when he inspired so many to write stuff that contradicted so many others recollections of the same myth. It's nonsense that so many mistakes can be made from a perfect being, or that he wouldn't have pointed out to those recording his word were at odds with others writing the same thing. Or did he just want them to express themselves and cause not but confusion to anyone who see contradictions as evidence it was men. No divine interjection, just bronze age men taking a retold story and adding bits in.
 
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