Resolution 12 Merged Threads

The season of honest mistakes has to be seen in the context of this information. After Smiths dog whistle regarding Lloyd’s running Rangers the honest mistakes ramped up to unfathomable degrees. The press were in lock step with the paranoia and each as bad as the other and focussing only on individual issues not glaring trends agendas.

How that was organised and coordinated would make interesting reading.
 
Celtic By Numbers said:
The season of honest mistakes has to be seen in the context of this information. After Smiths dog whistle regarding Lloyd’s running Rangers the honest mistakes ramped up to unfathomable degrees. The press were in lock step with the paranoia and each as bad as the other and focussing only on individual issues not glaring trends agendas.

How that was organised and coordinated would make interesting reading.
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Gerrard didn't miss a beat in calling the referees to arms ahead of this season too!
 
Unfortunately I don't believe there would be a huge fan backlash. The problem being the lack of wide coverage of this incredible cheating scam in the press. Also if the Celtic approach seems to be focused on stripping of trophies it will be gleefully spun by the press and the criminal also known as Dave King into a sour grapes dispute about Celtic and Sevco rather than the illegal and corrupt way the game is run by the SFA and compromised by the businesses run out of Ibrox supported by the banks .

Like all corruption this is all about money and power this just happens to be in the football world which is a very lucrative multi-billion global business
What we need to figure out is how to get he real issues into the public domain and motivate all fair and honest football fans throughout our country
 
It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that the Scottish sports hacks won't disturb their cosy existence. It does surprise me however that the English broadsheet press isn't a little more interested in a potential corruption scandal. If the evidence is as compelling as we are being led to believe then it'd seem incumbent on the Scottish authorities also to be looking into whether such subversive actions amount to defrauding of other clubs. I simply don't understand why this hasn't translated into pressure, investigation of the SFA role (including warrants for information) and a proper public enquiry. Is there more we can be doing to pressurise clubs, politicians or reporters?
 
Totally agree .

I think one crucial reason is the club's themselves including celtic don't want to upset the status quo as it is a nice earner and although this discovery of cheating by Oldo has upset things they intend to weather the storm and se it out

The only time the clubs are under pressure to stand up against the SFA and their lack of integrity is when season tickets need to be sold .

Make no mistake the SFA couldn't give a toss about the integrity of the game and how it has been shot to pieces by their reluctance to investigate and provide full disclosure to this period of cheating .They are only interested in keeping the cash flow and keeping their well paid positions
 
How did it ever get this far and why has it taking so long to be dealt with f#ck the sfa f#ck the cheating huns.yous let your club die
 
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It got this far because there is lots and lots of money to be had from football by crooks and criminals like dave king and charles green craig whyte etc .Look at the money that Sevco have been given by gullibillys and misguided investors There is another share issue taking place this week LOL If that is not a two fingered salute to the Take over Panel and demonstration of the power of free masonry in Scotland i don't know what is ..... that on top of Oldco not having to sell their assets (Murray park etc ) to pay their debts !!!!... Football in scotland is a dream come true for con men criminals and schysters
 
Would you guys mind giving this a read please? https://www.scotsman.com/sport/foot...f-fans-want-rangers-titles-stripped-1-4498216

It's a little over a year old and mostly flew under the radar when it came out, but for those who are saying there's no appetite from other clubs for taking the SFA to task (and title stripping) you really ought to read the comments from fans representatives of the other clubs. Most of them couldn't see how the SFA could do nothing and maintain credibility but that's exactly the course they've run. I really do think that there is an appetite for doing the right thing even after all this time.
 
It would be the clubs who would officially have to make a complaint and or ask for an inquiry etc, and they " do not want to rake over cold ashes." It would be down to celtic to challenge the sfa and kings media would turn that into a us v them situation, which he has been pretty successful so far, and not a peep out of celtic.
 
Totally agree Berniebhoy bigger than the Blattergate all clubs should unite and rid them and the SFA from Scottish football only then there will be progress made in our game.The late Turnbull Hutton Raith Rovers chairman was man enough so its time Lawwell,Milne,Budge and the rest had the kahunas to do the same along with all the clubs fans.
 
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Bernie,

There have been too many false dawns on this. Sadly, it is a dead duck now. As you say the only group who care about this is a subgroup of Celtic fans. I do not see how they can force the issue on their own. If the original motion had been carried at the AGM then it could have been pursued on the basis that Celtic shareholders were defrauded, but it did not get to a vote. It illustrates what can happen when there is no free press.

Rebus
 
James. Your thoughts on the current situation are incredibly and horribly sore to digest. It's very, very painful. Not just for me but for so many others.

Loads of us have been watching this for not far short of 10 years. Loads of skilled folk have researched the issues and blogged on the situation. And that's it. Nothing at all, and we are expected to accept that nothing happens. Nothing to see hear. Forget it and accept it.

In the future, it's entirely feasible that our children and future generations of Celtic fans will have full access to everything that's been hidden from us, to keep that lot going. To let them cheat at the expense of every other team and I imagine they could easily say, -

"This happened on your watch and you did nothing, despite some very skilled Celtic folk blogging and researching, spreading knowledge. You let them off, Scot free, and that's why they are still there and that's why they laugh at us. After they've finished their party songs, of course."

We have been patient. We have played by the so called rules. We thought we could see that justice and common sense would prevail.

But no. We need to accept it, forget it.
 
HoopsForMeAllTheWay said:
James. Your thoughts on the current situation are incredibly and horribly sore to digest. It's very, very painful. Not just for me but for so many others.

Loads of us have been watching this for not far short of 10 years. Loads of skilled folk have researched the issues and blogged on the situation. And that's it. Nothing at all, and we are expected to accept that nothing happens. Nothing to see hear. Forget it and accept it.

In the future, it's entirely feasible that our children and future generations of Celtic fans will have full access to everything that's been hidden from us, to keep that lot going. To let them cheat at the expense of every other team and I imagine they could easily say, -

"This happened on your watch and you did nothing, despite some very skilled Celtic folk blogging and researching, spreading knowledge. You let them off, Scot free, and that's why they are still there and that's why they laugh at us. After they've finished their party songs, of course."

We have been patient. We have played by the so called rules. We thought we could see that justice and common sense would prevail.

But no. We need to accept it, forget it.
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Hoops, do you actually mean to accept it and move on?

I can't really believe any Celtic fan would/could accept that.
 
2012 saw the death of Rangers. In my opinion they can keep the trophies they scammed to win. But the directors who partook in full knowledge of the scam should all be liable to Celtic shareholders for any legal skullduggery that defrauded them out of legitimate earnings since Rangers were allegedly lying about their liabilities that prevented Celtic from higher potential; earnings.

The new club should also be prevented from adding to legacy history of Rangers since they don't legally pay the entire liabilities of the Original club.

The shameful part SFA have played in this should also force an independent appeal panel or ombudsman to oversea the intricate shenanigans inside the SFA that is all too often obscured and blocked from insight, clarity and legitimate legal explanation.
 
berniebhoy said:
I will be surprised if this comes to anything. Other club chairmen dont care, the media will ignore it, The rangers want it buried deep and blame it all on the SFA. The SFA will say nothing to see here move along and I dont think our own board want to act as well. I think it is the biggest scandal in world football the whole episode from Murray, BoS in the 90s to the EBTs of the '00. Nothing short of title stripping will suffice and I dont think anyone within Scottish football gives a f**k.
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I think you nailed it Bernie. I'm still hoping for miracles though.
 
Steviebhoy67 said:
I think you nailed it Bernie. I'm still hoping for miracles though.
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The reason i don't think title stripping would be legally justifiable is they are allowed to fund themselves in whatever way they like. But the fact they killed themselves in the process is the key point of law. their shenanigans may have won them some dubious titles but they refused to pay the debts their bizarre business plan accumulated. Think they assumed they would get CVA to with all those debts they brazenly accumulated.

The bit that sticks in my throat is the shysters have effectively through MSM manipulation of relevant legality of the liquidation coupled with the handshake shenanigans at SFA/SPFL to try and pass the entirely New Club in legal world as same club in sporting world.

To me this is flagrant abuse of the law of the land to ditch debts but keep the honours associated with those debts.

They won those trophies on the field through some shady clandestine financial alchemy. But it caught up with them when they legally killed their own club and put their history to an end.

But I cannot understand why there has been no recourse to law of company Acts or the legal judgements in various legal cases involving the death of Rangers.

TRFC does not equal RFC

And if it does by some unknown law then why hasn't it been used to clarify the situation. Clearly the big money dudes and the hand shake clubbers would lose financially if the scam was exposed and maybe even justified jail terms for potential (looks pretty certain to me) skullduggery.
 
Maybe one for the lawyers on here....
As I understand it, clubs, societies and unincorporated bodies are not allowed to borrow money unless their constitution allows this. If the constitution does allow borrowing then the committee members/trustees are personally liable for the debts.
Around the start of the 20th century football clubs throughout Scotland and England were expanding and borrowing money to develop infrastructure, stadia etc. To avoid personal liability, clubs incorporated (i.e. became companies) so that their liability was restricted to the amount the shareholders invested in the company (usually nominal). So if the club became a company and it was subsequently liquidated then how on earth can the “club” continue? Metaphysical Construct anyone???
Maybe I’m being over simplistic but I’d be happy to be corrected on this point.
 
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BillericayBhoy said:
Maybe one for the lawyers on here....
As I understand it, clubs, societies and unincorporated bodies are not allowed to borrow money unless their constitution allows this. If the constitution does allow borrowing then the committee members/trustees are personally liable for the debts.
Around the start of the 20th century football clubs throughout Scotland and England were expanding and borrowing money to develop infrastructure, stadia etc. To avoid personal liability, clubs incorporated (i.e. became companies) so that their liability was restricted to the amount the shareholders invested in the company (usually nominal). So if the club became a company and it was subsequently liquidated then how on earth can the “club” continue? Metaphysical Construct anyone???
Maybe I’m being over simplistic but I’d be happy to be corrected on this point.
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Thats exactly my understanding. Im no lawyer though but the fact SFA have never officially stated the legal position of the club being the same, but refer instead, for sporting purposes, they have decided its the same club, and refuse point blank to take any legal reference other than the discredited Nimmo Smith ruling according to the SFA secret, circular, self reference quagmire, coupled along with the secret oath brigade, I personally think they are attempting the ludo defence, where games are subject to the game masters and not referable to the law. Except the game is now a multimillion pound industry which has limited liability for the shareholders of most of the clubs involved in the game.

I could welll be wrong. This is just my personal opinion and well thats never a good source for legal matters.

But the fact that society has been scammed out of millions of pounds and the shareholders of lots of, if not all, other clubs in Scotland have potentially been defrauded, then I genuinely believe the law needs to judge officially, the SFA decision to allow clubs to ditch debts and recapitalise without any recourse for shafted creditors.
 
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