General Election called now it’s a Postal Vote Rush for Cluj-bound Bhoys

[SamTeàrlachH]

And as I explained, in my opinion, they are a one-issue populist party based on a dependence on appealling to a core of the electorate who aspire to independence.

I want independence too, Sam, but I want independence with a clear political model in place to accommodate Scotland post-independence!

There is nothing currently in place which would be remotely transferable post-independence, including the Nats political manifesto.

Everything changes in a Scottish Republic........absolutely everything from political boundaries and public services in local government right through to how we finance the whole thing.

Absolutely everything changes!

They are a one-issue populist party based on the basic premise that all other parts of their manifesto become irrelevant post-independence!

But they've been in power in government in Scotland for 12 years enacting a host of policies that don't immediately relate to independence. And they won power so emphatically in 2011 not due to some massive spike in support for independence, but because they got rid of things like hybrid hospitals, PPIs, introduced universal free education and free prescriptions etc. etc. etc. All of these reforms are simultaneously about helping Scottish people in the present, while also putting into the practice the principles that would govern an independent Scotland.

Not sure what being a republican party has to do with 'political boundaries' and 'public services in local government' - you can reform these things, as the SNP have using devolved power, without being a republican party. The SNP used to be a republican party. The actual official policy is that this would be subject to a referendum in an independent Scotland. We'd get to vote on whether or not we evict the British Queen and her bastard progeny from Balmoral and Holyrood Palace and from all of Scotland.

But the SNP's white paper on independence covered all of this. It's a pity hardly anyone read it. Other than the absurdity of remaining fiscally beholden to England through a currency union, the actual social plan was progressive - Keynesian fiscal approach, which is in contrast to austerian neoliberalism, the concept of growing an economy using fiscal revenues - in this case, oil revenues would be used as a buffer to grow other sectors of the economy, public and private, in order to decrease dependency on oil revenues. The model would be akin to Norway.

Of course, in an independent Scotland, people could vote for whoever they want.

Here's the latest election literature from the 'one-issue' SNP. Not one single mention of the 'one issue' in question...

 

[SamTeàrlachH]

I'm going to apologise, Sam, as I didn't actually make that point in the first post about being a 'one-issue populist party'.

It's a personal opinion which might have no basis in fact, but it is how I feel on the subject and I don't see any way in which the current manifesto can be applied in the aftermath of independence.

To be fair, it is a problem which is apparent throughout all of the major political parties, as none of them even want to consider the prospect of an independent Scotland.

But their manifestos are for SPECIFIC elections. If you want to get an idea of how they'd govern an independent Scotland, you ought to look at the white papers on independence. But, again, the SNP's main function on the question of independence is to deliver the means through which Scots can gain independence. Their governance in Holyrood obviously is related, but also separate to the question of independence, given Holyrood is a devolved power that has to deal with day-to-day issues. The SNP have obviously been hugely popular as a governing force among the poorest and most vulnerable Scots. The rich tend to hate them; hence why not one single corporate newspaper supports them. The Scottish Sun, as a populist rag, often says nice things about them in the hope that their popularity will boost newspaper sales.

My criticism of them is that they have, in recent years, seemingly evolved into a party where the leadership is terrified of the word independence. I'd like them to be MORE of a one-issue party. That would at least give us a clear choice in the face of intransigent Unionism.

If Joanna Cherry's team put a flyer through my door that doesn't mention the word 'independence', I will not vote for the SNP or any other political party. They should be using this upcoming election as a kind of informal plebiscite on a second indy ref, but I think it's clear they're not going to do that. They're bottling it.

 

[Spherical Planet]

But they've been in power in government in Scotland for 12 years enacting a host of policies that don't immediately relate to independence. And they won power so emphatically in 2011 not due to some massive spike in support for independence, but because they got rid of things like hybrid hospitals, PPIs, introduced universal free education and free prescriptions etc. etc. etc. All of these reforms are simultaneously about helping Scottish people in the present, while also putting into the practice the principles that would govern an independent Scotland.

Not sure what being a republican party has to do with 'political boundaries' and 'public services in local government' - you can reform these things, as the SNP have using devolved power, without being a republican party. The SNP used to be a republican party. The actual official policy is that this would be subject to a referendum in an independent Scotland. We'd get to vote on whether or not we evict the British Queen and her bastard progeny from Balmoral and Holyrood Palace and from all of Scotland.

But the SNP's white paper on independence covered all of this. It's a pity hardly anyone read it. Other than the absurdity of remaining fiscally beholden to England through a currency union, the actual social plan was progressive - Keynesian fiscal approach, which is in contrast to austerian neoliberalism, the concept of growing an economy using fiscal revenues - in this case, oil revenues would be used as a buffer to grow other sectors of the economy, public and private, in order to decrease dependency on oil revenues. The model would be akin to Norway.

Of course, in an independent Scotland, people could vote for whoever they want.

Here's the latest election literature from the 'one-issue' SNP. Not one single mention of the 'one issue' in question...

View attachment 4892

Sam, I admire your passion and I also believe that it will take voices like your own to help ease the transition. I have no doubt that there is real political substance in many of the Nats elected representatives and that there have been thousands of hours of debates on how the party will proceed in either scenario.

That's not really my issue though and mine is perhaps my own hardwired response due to having to deal with Gordon Wilson and that particular brand of nationalism in the 70's and 80's.

I'm open to persuasion though!

 

[SamTeàrlachH]

Sam, I admire your passion and I also believe that it will take voices like your own to help ease the transition. I have no doubt that there is real political substance in many of the Nats elected representatives and that there have been thousands of hours of debates on how the party will proceed in either scenario.

That's not really my issue though and mine is perhaps my own hardwired response due to having to deal with Gordon Wilson and that particular brand of nationalism in the 70's and 80's.

I'm open to persuasion though!

As I said, if they dare to put a flyer through my door which doesn't mention 'independence', they will lose my vote. I'm not a nationalist of any kind. I support self-determination for nations, as a principle, but I personally support a progressive social democratic vision of society - this can't be delivered while we remain trapped in a British Union that, no matter who is in power in Westminster, means Scots simply can't determine our own affairs. Nobody would have denied Ireland independence from Britain due to the fact that Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are right-wing conservative parties. The point is, yes, about self-determination as a human right, but, on a personal level for me, supporting an internationalist, anti-war, pro-social justice and socially progressive Scotland.

 

[Spherical Planet]

As I said, if they dare to put a flyer through my door which doesn't mention 'independence', they will lose my vote. I'm not a nationalist of any kind. I support self-determination for nations, as a principle, but I personally support a progressive social democratic vision of society - this can't be delivered while we remain trapped in a British Union that, no matter who is in power in Westminster, means Scots simply can't determine our own affairs. Nobody would have denied Ireland independence from Britain due to the fact that Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are right-wing conservative parties. The point is, yes, about self-determination as a human right, but, on a personal level for me, supporting an internationalist, anti-war, pro-social justice and socially progressive Scotland.

Now Sam, these are all points which I would happily invest in.

If that was the message being conveyed, then I wouldn't hesitate for a single second.........Have you ever thought of changing careers, Sam? Think there's a vacancy coming up for Prime Minister soon?

 

[Winning Captains]

A yellow card has been issued. Any clear racist remarks will mean a straight red card. I think that we do need to have a political thread up, the example I gave yesterday on one constituency - it was so tight that a little bit of coordination on the Celtic forums or through the supporters buses could have made a huge difference. The downside is of course what we've had to read earlier. It's not acceptable on here and I believe has no place in Paradise or among those whose hearts are there.

 

[Winning Captains]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1189848235034185728

 

[Steviebhoy67]

Can you clarify to whom you have given a yellow card?

 

[Steviebhoy67]

Seems not.
I wish to state very clearly that I AM NO RACIST as implied earlier and totally disagree with the WC and his take on my comments on this thread. In fact i was subjected to unacceptable comments from another member. As for the deleted comment by WC I'd have prefered he put it back up to help see the whole picture and convo for others to judge.i still have a copy. I have NEVER been accused of racism from the people who know me.
Theres a good reason for that.
Some comments we've read on other threads look tame in comparison and yet no action taken. We've all seen them. If publicy questioning WC judgement means I'm kicked off the forum then so be it. I have principles.
In fact even if that doesn't happen i am considering if i should stay. I've met some great people on here and had lots of laughs and I'd miss that but I'm not standing by as someone makes such allegations. I welcome a response yet again from WC to clarify this issue.
HH

 

[boab1916]

Well prime minister, youve called an election,what do you think it will achieve,
"Eh blah,blah,blah, harumph, wibble, wibble
Do you think you'll get your message through.
"eh,of course,bluster,bluster, blah.blah,blah,wibble,wibble
what about brexit prime minister
Eh,we'll fight them on the beaches,surrender bill bah!, quislings , traitors, collaborators! we're leaving the Eu on the 31st of of october or i'll die in a ditch!
it's the 31st of october prime minister.
Eh,blah,blah,blah, harumpph,wibble wibble!
vote for my wonderful deal,
but you've pulled the deal,
Blah, blah,blah, i've called an election, wibble, wibble, because eh,,,, ah don't hiv a phuqin scoob!!!!!!!!

MD was one last night, tory we are putting 20000 new policemen into the system, but you cut 21000 last year, yeah but we are putting 20000 new ones back in, but you will be down a 1000, yes we are putting 20000 new policemen on the streets, these fuckers are plugged into a wall socket.

 

[Hoopy427]

Seems not.
I wish to state very clearly that I AM NO RACIST as implied earlier and totally disagree with the WC and his take on my comments on this thread. In fact i was subjected to unacceptable comments from another member. As for the deleted comment by WC I'd have prefered he put it back up to help see the whole picture and convo for others to judge.i still have a copy. I have NEVER been accused of racism from the people who know me.
Theres a good reason for that.
Some comments we've read on other threads look tame in comparison and yet no action taken. We've all seen them. If publicy questioning WC judgement means I'm kicked off the forum then so be it. I have principles.
In fact even if that doesn't happen i am considering if i should stay. I've met some great people on here and had lots of laughs and I'd miss that but I'm not standing by as someone makes such allegations. I welcome a response yet again from WC to clarify this issue.
HH

Self preservation tells me the best thing to do here Stevie is shut up, but it's not in my nature. I am utterly certain there was no racial undertone in your deleted comment but as I said previously political debates get nasty when some can't accept a differing opinion to theirs.
I find it appalling that a Celtic man through and through for decades gets told to F off back to ibrox due to political differences on a Celtic forum.
Celtic is a club for all, including differing political views I'd have hoped.

 

[jinxy67]

Well said. And those same millionaires probably pay accountants to legally avoid paying large sums of taxes to the treasury every year. Of course, rather than governments clamp down on these tax loopholes (which benefit their party's very rich donors) they divert attention onto the nasty poor & sick people receiving benefits and moan about pensioners (who receive the lowest state pensions in the civilised world) for living longer!

To be fair to the government its not there fault that the poor people don't die quickly, because I can say 100% guaranteed that they don't anything to f#cking help us

 

[jinxy67]

The "ignore" button is a wonderful thing

No it's not, all it does is prove that whoever block's someone can't prove their point so 'walks away' then declares themselves the winner.

 

[michael duffy]

MD was one last night, tory we are putting 20000 new policemen into the system, but you cut 21000 last year, yeah but we are putting 20000 new ones back in, but you will be down a 1000, yes we are putting 20000 new policemen on the streets, these fuckers are plugged into a wall socket.

Aye Boab!
migration is the fault of the Eu,
Naw it wiznae,it started wi the Iraq war!
wibble wibble
the recession was caused by the Eu,
Naw it wiznae, it wiz caused by greedy bankers and feckin speculators,
wibble wibble
our economy is suffering because of the Eu,
didnae stop ye givin £billions tae aforementioned bankers
wibble wibble
Austerity was caused by Eu policies,
it wiz caused by Tory bastards fillin their boots at the expense of the poor,the sick and the elderly,how many workin people in europe are dependant on foodbanks!
wibble wibble!

 

[Steviebhoy67]

No it's not, all it does is prove that whoever block's someone can't prove their point so 'walks away' then declares themselves the winner.

If you read back to earlier you might understand that on occasion it might be for best. I'm all for debate and having different opinions.
HH

 

[michael duffy]

1'm glad the vote for an independent England won,break up of the union,independent Scotland in world's largest trading block, with a veto, a voice, unlike in the uk,where engerlund gets what engerlund want's and the added bonus of a united Ireland!!!!

 

[Steviebhoy67]

To come out with shit like 'I've seen dad's selling there kids for sex' on the street maybe some people would prefer you to put them on ignore

You don't like reading the truth then fine.

 

[jinxy67]

You don't like reading the truth then fine.

Did you speak to said 'dad' about it??? It's illegal to sell people for sex. Hope you gave him a good telling off

 

[michael duffy]

Why were the tories deperate to relinquish power,
Why were labour desperate not to try and gain power
No deal brexit! geeza nurra stella!

 

[michael duffy]

6 weeks of lies,fake nooz and deflection tae look forward tae! beats xmas hand's down!!!!!!