Transfer Rumours

Larry7

Well-known member
Calling someone a "thief", or a group of people "thieves", is pejorative because it suggests wrongdoing and dishonesty.
If I call someone any kind of thief then I can hardly feign offence when it's alleged I'm being negative or accusatory.
 

Imatim

Well-known member
Oh for fuck sake. I’ve never said it was their fault and I take issue with you assertion I did. The fault is not with any of the young men who are at our club, I have said repeatedly, check my posts, that’s it’s Rogers, and his dismal record in % terms.

The facts are the facts though, wether you want to accept them though, there are at least 12 players who do absolutely sweet fuck all for their wages, so save all the emotional, playing to the gallery Shite about them. I know it’s not their fault.

It’s the attitude of the of the club, bringing in young guys hoping they are good. Well , it hasn’t worked. There are wage thief’s at the club, but it’s not their fault and as working men good fucking luck to them.

I don’t blame one of them, what I do take exception to is how many there are. Too fucking many, so save the the emotional bollocks please. I know it’s not their fault. That doesn’t mean it’s not somebody’s fault, over £100k a week goes out the door for fuck all.

If you think that’s ok, then have a word with yourself and stop trying to paint yourself as a defender of a group im not attacking, do you think i came up with that term? It’s Rogers and the board for buying them. Dismal judgement. Costly dismal judgement by Rogers and the board. Not the young guys we bought. I think if you read my posts you will see I’m quite clear about the utter ballsup of Rogers signings. 20 and 6 get a game regularly, unintentional, bought through abysmal judgement, but not their fault. We cannot afford £100k a week for no return. That’s the deal, and it needs to change.

If you want to have a go at me l, as you monotonously do, pick better stuff. They are fucking wage thief’s but it’s not their fault. I never said it was. It’s Rogers fault, and I have said that more than once.

Have you? Or do you think everything’s fucking dandy having double figures of the pool doing Fuck all? And will continue to do Fuck all.

Save me the emotional defence ffs of something I wasn’t attacking. And while your at it take a day off from trying to have a go. Your as subtle as a rhino horn up the arse.
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Perhaps it may be a good idea if you chill out somewhat. You can't be angry 24/7 surely?

You're coming across to me as all indignant, spitting venom and snarly.

Let me Level with you....It reminds me of the faces and actions of Huns players when they score a goal....all snarly, angry and full of venom....in comparison to showing a happy, joyful disposition at what should be a happy occasion.

And for what it's worth calling Celtic players wage thief's is a slur on them.....without you, me, or anyone else knowing what is going on. So why say it?

They may not be up to the standard we would all like to see....but classing them the way you do is a bit much.

By all means have a go at the policy behind accruing players....but if you do...why don't you try to come up with an alternative plan that is feasible and then we can all debate it. Sound fair?

Remembering constructive criticism is welcome....verbose continual negativity is boring and totally counter productive.

It's not easy being a Celtic player...the demands and expectations are great..."the jersey doesn't shrink to fit" as Big Jock would say..some will make it...many won't for a variety of reasons....whatever the reasons they don't deserve to be classed as thief's.....do they?...unless of course they can clearly be seen to be working their ticket......which I am sure is not the case with the vast majority of those who don't feature regularly.....don't you think?

So, perhaps it might be a good idea if you have a good think about a few things and cut your cloth to suit. That would be good.
 

boab1916

Well-known member
................................

Perhaps it may be a good idea if you chill out somewhat. You can't be angry 24/7 surely?

You're coming across to me as all indignant, spitting venom and snarly.

Let me Level with you....It reminds me of the faces and actions of Huns players when they score a goal....all snarly, angry and full of venom....in comparison to showing a happy, joyful disposition at what should be a happy occasion.

And for what it's worth calling Celtic players wage thief's is a slur on them.....without you, me, or anyone else knowing what is going on. So why say it?

They may not be up to the standard we would all like to see....but classing them the way you do is a bit much.

By all means have a go at the policy behind accruing players....but if you do...why don't you try to come up with an alternative plan that is feasible and then we can all debate it. Sound fair?

Remembering constructive criticism is welcome....verbose continual negativity is boring and totally counter productive.

It's not easy being a Celtic player...the demands and expectations are great..."the jersey doesn't shrink to fit" as Big Jock would say..some will make it...many won't for a variety of reasons....whatever the reasons they don't deserve to be classed as thief's.....do they?...unless of course they can clearly be seen to be working their ticket......which I am sure is not the case with the vast majority of those who don't feature regularly.....don't you think?

So, perhaps it might be a good idea if you have a good think about a few things and cut your cloth to suit. That would be good.
I remember how long it took Rogic, Christie,Forrest, McGregor, Tierney (Izzy ripping it up easily) to break in and claim regular spots ,even Broonie was struggling.
The thing is if the argument is Europe then we have not got the talent in most departments for a real assualt, but if we are sitting 7 titles in the bag and they are not all Rodgers titles, then we must have ripped the pish out the SPFL in the past, for all i remember out of that bunch of previous titles is Victor Wyanama, VVD, Fraser Foster, so who filled in the gaps playing in and around these guys.

So Rodgers has ripped the SPFL in his first three years all titles in the bag, he got the 40 mill in one of them, what is it we are looking for, Europe full out like MON may mean giving all and losing out on all domestics, or use a squad rotation, for this IMO you will not attract the best to sit and hope for a game or their turn to come, the way to have a big side and pool is to fill gaps with experienced players who will allow the young players or your star players recovery time. Celtic of old had guys like Willie O Neil,, Charlie Gallaher, John Fallon, Joe McBride John Hughes they all played their part in the lisbon lions squad and helped to win the domestic hnours and were lions, but their names do not roll of the tounge as easily as Simpson Craig Gemmill Murdoch McNeil Clark Johnstone Wallace Chalmers Auld and Lennox
 

John Sweeney

Active member
We sometimes fall into the trap in my opinion of thinking Celtic are unique in the transfer market Every club, including all the big English and European clubs, have players on their books whose move to the club hadn’t worked out for either club or player for one reason or another. Celtic are no better or worse than anyone else in this regard. And to think we are flush with money in terms of today’s transfer market is ludicrous Even if the reported £20million for Denver was true and even it were all just sitting there waiting to be spent and even if it were all spent on one central defender we would get at best a good competent player with no guarantee he would fit in and be excellent for Celtic. In the real world, of course, any money for transfers has to cover several purchases so we are driven back on the present strategy of spotting developing talent and skilful use of loan system Can’t see an alternative tbh
 

Larry7

Well-known member
Every club, including all the big English and European clubs, have players on their books whose move to the club hadn’t worked out for either club or player for one reason or another. Celtic are no better or worse than anyone else in this regard.
I heard a some statistics on the latest Celtic Underground podcast that made me question that complacency.

Teams like Ajax, PSV, Feeyenord, Anderlecht, Porto and Benfica (ie teams we should probably see as our European rivals) all make around 100% profit on transfer dealings. We make 28%.

None of these teams have a turnover anywhere near ours, apparently. Celtic are massive in terms of ticket sales and merchandising (and those clubs don't get the mega money from TV either).

Despite the fact that many/most of these teams attract "bigger" players than us, our wage budget is around double what any of those teams pay.

These three statistics suggest we should spend bigger but more wisely, then sell higher; we also need to pay higher wages but to far, far fewer players. Our squad is too large because we've bought too many projects and journeymen.

The final damning statistic is that most of the teams listed above have far higher Uefa coefficients than us. They're doing better than us.
 

Spherical Planet

Well-known member
I heard a some statistics on the latest Celtic Underground podcast that made me question that complacency.

Teams like Ajax, PSV, Feeyenord, Anderlecht, Porto and Benfica (ie teams we should probably see as our European rivals) all make around 100% profit on transfer dealings. We make 28%.

None of these teams have a turnover anywhere near ours, apparently. Celtic are massive in terms of ticket sales and merchandising (and those clubs don't get the mega money from TV either).

Despite the fact that many/most of these teams attract "bigger" players than us, our wage budget is around double what any of those teams pay.

These three statistics suggest we should spend bigger but more wisely, then sell higher; we also need to pay higher wages but to far, far fewer players. Our squad is too large because we've bought too many projects and journeymen.

The final damning statistic is that most of the teams listed above have far higher Uefa coefficients than us. They're doing better than us.
I wouldn't dispute that, but I think to be fair that these markets have been in that field for decades.

The Portuguese league is a tried and tested route for young promising Brazilians and the Benelux countries have always been fairly cosmopolitan in their approach to bringing in players from other continents and lower-profile European leagues.

Celtic have been dipping their toes into further flung corners of the globe for a relatively short period and while the supporters in these countries are passionate and fierce, it is debatable that they are quite so demanding.

There has also always been a clear policy at these clubs of developing players to sell-on at huge profits, that was an alien concept at Celtic until recently. We've always been plundered by the big English clubs, but not by design, more by the lure of greater riches and towards the end of contracts.

It's a reality we have to accept and an area which we have to better understand and benefit from. We are currently paying to excess because of the attractive contracts we are providing and we definitely have to understand that these contracts do not come with a cast-iron guarantee on any future return.

I think our relative success in identifying talent in the last 10 years will serve us well as a lure to entice a better standard of player, but we have to be prepared to take a hit or three while we hone our art.

The other factor about Dutch and Portuguese football, is that they have a healthy enough audience outwith their own territories. Where their domestic TV deals may not be significantly better than ours, they do generate secondary income from packages to supplement the football output in other countries.

SKY have understood the demand for the EPL and it is the income from other territories that vastly outweigh what they pay to the EPL to showcase their league.
 

Spherical Planet

Well-known member
We sometimes fall into the trap in my opinion of thinking Celtic are unique in the transfer market Every club, including all the big English and European clubs, have players on their books whose move to the club hadn’t worked out for either club or player for one reason or another. Celtic are no better or worse than anyone else in this regard. And to think we are flush with money in terms of today’s transfer market is ludicrous Even if the reported £20million for Denver was true and even it were all just sitting there waiting to be spent and even if it were all spent on one central defender we would get at best a good competent player with no guarantee he would fit in and be excellent for Celtic. In the real world, of course, any money for transfers has to cover several purchases so we are driven back on the present strategy of spotting developing talent and skilful use of loan system Can’t see an alternative tbh
Couldn't agree more, John. It's not the ideal scenario, but we're limited in other options.
 

Benignus

Well-known member
Couldn't agree more, John. It's not the ideal scenario, but we're limited in other options.
The thing that surprises me more than anything is that this is nothing new, Celtic have been operating this business model for years, we racked up a fair amount of debt under MON, since the we've witnessed our horrible neighbours go under, there's no way this didn't set off major alarm bells in the celtic boardroom, read a comment recently that we are a development club now, but this is not a new thing, it's been like this for nearly a 20 years, I still find it hard to believe that we spent 9m on French Eddie, unless we qualify every 2 out of 3 champions league play off ties, the mood during these tranfer windows is going to drive some fans over the edge.
 

Spherical Planet

Well-known member
The thing that surprises me more than anything is that this is nothing new, Celtic have been operating this business model for years, we racked up a fair amount of debt under MON, since the we've witnessed our horrible neighbours go under, there's no way this didn't set off major alarm bells in the celtic boardroom, read a comment recently that we are a development club now, but this is not a new thing, it's been like this for nearly a 20 years, I still find it hard to believe that we spent 9m on French Eddie, unless we qualify every 2 out of 3 champions league play off ties, the mood during these tranfer windows is going to drive some fans over the edge.
Chasing the dream is never a recipe for success, B. Old minty and his legacy of liquidation is all the lesson we should ever need on that subject.

I'd even argue that the reported figure for Eddy is a bit of misdirection. I'm sure that if he hits his targets, then that will be the ballpark that we're playing in, but if he does hit these targets then he will have doubled his value as a salable asset.

Pragmatism might not be sexy, but it sure makes a whole lot of sense in the current financial minefield that is football at the moment.
 

Spherical Planet

Well-known member
Apropos of nothing really.......

I used to live paypoke to weekend, by Monday morning I was tapping up my Ma' to get me through the rest of the week. Celtic was the primary cause of my largesse (once you take out fags, booze, bookies and wives).

That was never a sustainable way to live and as I've got older, I've even invested in life insurance????

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that living for the moment is fine to a certain extent, but at some point - a common sense transplant keeps the lights on!
 

boab1916

Well-known member
Chasing the dream is never a recipe for success, B. Old minty and his legacy of liquidation is all the lesson we should ever need on that subject.

I'd even argue that the reported figure for Eddy is a bit of misdirection. I'm sure that if he hits his targets, then that will be the ballpark that we're playing in, but if he does hit these targets then he will have doubled his value as a salable asset.

Pragmatism might not be sexy, but it sure makes a whole lot of sense in the current financial minefield that is football at the moment.
Never having to fill you fans heads with shite and knowing and that what you are telling them is shite. Chris Graham former board member of Kings board only sacked for tweeting a racist comment or would still be on the boardadmin liquid.jpg.
 

Andybhoy88

Well-known member
Listen I know everyone has a different take on our transfer policy, some think it's a sound strategy, some think it's a directionless shambolic mess and there's others like myself who think it needs to be more flexible depending on our needs and finances.

I have no issue with bringing in 'potential' and loans, in fact I welcome it, as we should explore and exploit all options open to us but it's now got to the point where this is all our 'strategy' entails. We have all but given up on signing established experienced players, if there's no significant sell on value then there's no chance the board are sanctioning it. That to me is the mark of a short sighted, narrow minded and arrogant 'our way is the ONLY way' approach from a Celtic board who are either too pig-headed to acknowledge and accept the flaws in their strategy or who's lowly vision for Celtic is to reduce the club to some sort of footballing University where young players go to learn and prepare before going off to have careers elsewhere.

To base any signing's 'value' solely on how much you can rake in when you punt them is a blinkered outlook to have and it's this attitude that drives this almost zealot like focus on only signing young players with potential. What about the value of signing experienced players who are important when it comes to guiding and mentoring all that 'potential' you're buying up? Without that much needed guidance they may not develop to the standard they should which results in them failing to realise their full potential and in turn brings in less of a transfer fee than they potentially could have if they'd been learning alongside seasoned pros. What about the the value of having experienced players that have the know how and resilience to see you over the line in CL qualifiers? They could be the difference in whether you secure a £30m plus payday for the club and go on to make inroads in European competition generating even more revenue. What about the value of having experienced players who provide the spine of the team and offer a degree of stability? When the 'projects' fail to make the grade or the vultures swoop in to pick off those 'projects' who've started to establish themselves as top talents and the board decide to cash in experience is key to maintaining a decent standard until other 'projects' develop.

There is no excuse for not investing in experienced seasoned pros, there are solid and efficient CB's and RB's out there for example who wouldn't break the bank and could lift us up a level but because they don't fit into the hallowed criteria they are dismissed as a loss making exercise simply because there is little to no sell on value when signing a 27/28 year old on a 3 year deal. Never mind their qualities or what they could do for the team in the here and know, if there's no profit to be made from selling them on then they are worthless in the eyes of Lawell and this board.

Lastly this constant grim reaper like pointing across the city as a 'doom laden warning of what could be' anytime someone advocates investing some half decent money in signings is inherent bollocks. That club died because it had no profits, lived on overdrafts and employed a multi-million £ tax scam chasing a fantasy of European glory, the situations aren't even close to being comparable. Also this incessant 'can't compete with the EPL' narrative that's forever being trotted out is getting just as tiresome. Countless clubs throughout Europe with similar resources to our own and some with even less seem to manage just fine, they manage to build stronger squads than we do and maintain their progress season after season while we're stuck in this seemingly endless loop of 1 step forward and 2 steps back like some staggering drunk on his way home from the boozer.
 

John Sweeney

Active member
The trouble as I see it is that it is very difficult to buy experienced players who would both improve what we have and at the same time be affordable If they are good solid professionals they come with considerable price tags If they don’t then there is a reason for that and they are best avoided And it is not just Celtic who face this problem Similar teams across Europe do struggle to land good solid players for the same reason
 

Andybhoy88

Well-known member
The trouble as I see it is that it is very difficult to buy experienced players who would both improve what we have and at the same time be affordable If they are good solid professionals they come with considerable price tags If they don’t then there is a reason for that and they are best avoided And it is not just Celtic who face this problem Similar teams across Europe do struggle to land good solid players for the same reason
So £4/5m say couldn't secure the signing of a better CB than Boyata/Hendry likewise a better RB than Lustig/Gamboa? Also two of the finest players I've ever seen pull on the hoops, Larsson and Moravcik, didn't come with 'considerable price tags' both combined cost less than £1m and were relative unknowns. Were they best avoided?

I'm not trying to dismiss what you're saying John I recognise it's a difficult market but there are viable affordable targets out there who, if we deviated from our policy once in a while, could come in and make a massive difference and give us a solid base to build on. Combine that with all these young up and coming players we're bringing in and you could create something more formidable and sustainable.

HH John.
 

The Shamrock

Well-known member
So £4/5m say couldn't secure the signing of a better CB than Boyata/Hendry likewise a better RB than Lustig/Gamboa? Also two of the finest players I've ever seen pull on the hoops, Larsson and Moravcik, didn't come with 'considerable price tags' both combined cost less than £1m and were relative unknowns. Were they best avoided?

I'm not trying to dismiss what you're saying John I recognise it's a difficult market but there are viable affordable targets out there who, if we deviated from our policy once in a while, could come in and make a massive difference and give us a solid base to build on. Combine that with all these young up and coming players we're bringing in and you could create something more formidable and sustainable.

HH John.
It's no easy to find another Larsson or Lubo though, Andy.
 

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