Brendan Rodgers

[John nó]

T

yes

I agree

but he wasn't a cheap option

just a more balanced capable manager with less resources than the spend spend spend is the way to growth managers

its only temporary growth till your income plateaux then you need downsize the wage bill like Strachan did with period of cash resource building from sales then hopefully if you have a decent manager under those conditions you get another chance at stronger team few years down line.

you cant grow past your expected income unless you have a fancy sell your best players to make up the short falll

spending past your income cant work without the selling your best players

and replacing them with good quality isn't easy in short term

and if you have a manager who lost his marbles in the downsizing period with rank rotten impractical system then it can become seriously unhinged and crash the value of your players and set club backwards

TET this is all about budgets and how much a board is prepared to pay on players wages.
Surely you would expect a manager and board to work within these limits.
A manager can't be accused of overspending if the board are prepared to pay that amount of money.
But we have no idea on just how much say a manager has upon the players been recruited.
I get the impression that a manager identifies the type of player he would like and Hammond and PL go off and get them.
Would hardly say this is the best way to recruit players as we seem to end up with far to many players that do not fit into the managers plans and hence we are left with players picking up a wage for providing nothing.
Look at the mess the next manager is going to be left with that needs sorting out, and if PL is still there I believe this current situation may get a whole lot worse before any improvement will be seen.

 

[Vigobhoy]

T
TET this is all about budgets and how much a board is prepared to pay on players wages.
Surely you would expect a manager and board to work within these limits.
A manager can't be accused of overspending if the board are prepared to pay that amount of money.
But we have no idea on just how much say a manager has upon the players been recruited.
I get the impression that a manager identifies the type of player he would like and Hammond and PL go off and get them.
Would hardly say this is the best way to recruit players as we seem to end up with far to many players that do not fit into the managers plans and hence we are left with players picking up a wage for providing nothing.
Look at the mess the next manager is going to be left with that needs sorting out, and if PL is still there I believe this current situation may get a whole lot worse before any improvement will be seen.

So, how does all this translate into 'it's all Lenny's fault' ? I'm not saying that Lenny's time is not up but I think there needs to be a realistic plan in place before dismantling the whole system.
Edit: There seems to be a baying mob mentality in play at the moment. Without identifying how the issues we face could be resolved. Baby and bathwater comes to mind.

 

[TET]

T
TET this is all about budgets and how much a board is prepared to pay on players wages.
Surely you would expect a manager and board to work within these limits.
A manager can't be accused of overspending if the board are prepared to pay that amount of money.
But we have no idea on just how much say a manager has upon the players been recruited.
I get the impression that a manager identifies the type of player he would like and Hammond and PL go off and get them.
Would hardly say this is the best way to recruit players as we seem to end up with far to many players that do not fit into the managers plans and hence we are left with players picking up a wage for providing nothing.
Look at the mess the next manager is going to be left with that needs sorting out, and if PL is still there I believe this current situation may get a whole lot worse before any improvement will be seen.

thats the big issue

as fans we need to guess and second guess because the structure is opaque and communications are bad

hence board need go

they gave him the budget

he used it

they said its full no more

he caused havoc fecked off

he knew the budget

used it then demanded more

useless

 

[John nó]

and yet you seem to believe that this is all at the feet of Lenny. If so, imagine.... tomorrow you are without a manager... what do you do now? Who do you think you would like to bring in? What do you believe the new manager could do to fix the current malaise? How long would you give him before baying at his heels? and yet it must be the boards fault now because (Lennys not there any more, and)they didn't recruit properly or they did not back him by spending millions? What are you suggesting Johnno?.

On the playing front, yes I do place the blame upon lenny and would question the professionalism of some of the players also.
Lenny overlooks all football matters within the club and is on record as doing so.
So for instance young players are not being developed enough to get up to first team standard because if they were then why are they not getting a look in when so many regular players are failing him so badly?
Set plays a huge part of the modern game, we can't defend them and do fuck all with our own ones.
Look at our shape without the ball we are all over the place, far to many players way out of position.
Lack of ideas in how to break down any team that plays with a disciplined shape.
I could go on and on with his guessing games in order to try and change things around, but when you listen to comments like "don't know weather we are giving to much information or not enough on the oppersition" is just one of the many signs of a man who is not in control of the situation he has placed us in. It can hardly inspire confidence within the camp, and as a supporter I have long stopped listening to the bollox he is spouting and wouldn't say I am alone in that opinion as it seems to have filtered into the dressing room long ago.
I do agree we have much bigger problems than just lenny, but we have to make a start somewhere, I would have more confidence in the tea lady getting a team set up better than lenny can at the moment.
Who takes over? The million pound question. As things stand I can not see us being able to get in the quality manager we need all the time PL is pulling the strings and that don't seem to be the case of him fucking of soon.
For the meantime maybe broony needs to set up in the short term to maybe get these players back playing to the capability we know they have, but I fear we have so many now that can't wait to get out of the club that we have created an impossible job for anyone to take on at the moment

 

[John nó]

thats the big issue

as fans we need to guess and second guess because the structure is opaque and communications are bad

hence board need go

they gave him the budget

he used it

they said its full no more

he caused havoc fecked off

he knew the budget

used it then demanded more

useless

This is always going to be a major obstacle any manager of celtic is going to face until an automatic place is guaranteed within the CL.
To spend big is purely on speculation as it is not guaranteed yet.
By reaching the group stages players are in the shop window for riches elsewhere.
Can we get the quality needed to be competitive?
We as supporters have these expectations and even demands of making us great on the big stage again, but the reality is we are years behind in the finances required to make us a force again within European football.
Can it be achieved?
Yes it can imo
But a much better structure is needed to be put in place, without that nonsense PL in charge of affairs.
A proper director of football that a manager can work with is a must, where they can work on the same wavelength.
Proper development of youth to be able to step up to deal with this constant merry go round that we face every time the transfer window opens.
Recurit of players that want to play for celtic and not just using the club as a shop window in the hope for mega bucks elsewhere.
It just seems like we as a club and not learning anything from the mistakes of the past

 

[TET]

This is always going to be a major obstacle any manager of celtic is going to face until an automatic place is guaranteed within the CL.
To spend big is purely on speculation as it is not guaranteed yet.
By reaching the group stages players are in the shop window for riches elsewhere.
Can we get the quality needed to be competitive?
We as supporters have these expectations and even demands of making us great on the big stage again, but the reality is we are years behind in the finances required to make us a force again within European football.
Can it be achieved?
Yes it can imo
But a much better structure is needed to be put in place, without that nonsense PL in charge of affairs.
A proper director of football that a manager can work with is a must, where they can work on the same wavelength.
Proper development of youth to be able to step up to deal with this constant merry go round that we face every time the transfer window opens.
Recurit of players that want to play for celtic and not just using the club as a shop window in the hope for mega bucks elsewhere.
It just seems like we as a club and not learning anything from the mistakes of the past

it assumes the guessing and second guessing is sound

im not sure anybody ever said lawell hijacks anything

he may well?

but its not certain and anytime anybody asked they deny the claims

if your assumption is correct then it needs fixed

he needs sack for fact he cant communicate effectively

other than that he may well have good reason for not communicating, but ill give him benefit of doubt

I would sack him for being ineffective communicator

anything else I couldn't prove

 

[John nó]

it assumes the guessing and second guessing is sound

im not sure anybody ever said lawell hijacks anything

he may well?

but its not certain and anytime anybody asked they deny the claims

if your assumption is correct then it needs fixed

he needs sack for fact he cant communicate effectively

other than that he may well have good reason for not communicating, but ill give him benefit of doubt

I would sack him for being ineffective communicator

anything else I couldn't prove

I can't prove anything your right TET, I can only form opinions on what I see and hear.
One of the most damaging statements lenny made earlier in the season was he "would like to play 433, but "
can't cause he has no wingers"
Now what sort of statement is that ment to be?
To me it is a lie on lennys behalf and how can you gain respect if you are prepared to tell blatant lies.
I would say in his defence that he might not get a big enough say upon the players that are recruited.
Either way I am just sick of all the bullshit and speculation we are constantly being spoon fed this season

 

[MickyMcMick]

they cant invest beyond the clubs income

thats just reality

you can bring in better players only until your expenses on wages each the plateaux set by your max expected income

but as your players get better they want better terms

and you must sell them or run at loss year on year

which is impossible to sustain

and that overextension crushes the value of your players because you need to sell them or go burst

and thats the point rodgers reached

And the fans were saying but we need more good players to compete

but you cant without the a comparable income with the teams you want to try beat

the bigger the gulf the harder it gets

And by putting club right on its brink in relation to must need cl money or we run at no profits

then just 1 bad signing sets the club back years

not a few months

years

unless you have hidden tax haven trusts funnelling their wages off the books

And rodgers made not just 1 bad signing but several

and the selling of Dembele didn't offset the damage he did.

the selling of Tierney didn't off set the damage

all that hard work was thrown down pan by handing massive wages to average new signings

he also didn't have a Gerrard style team with 3 years gel through spine to compete with

he also got all the hard work ronny done with players and it might just be that had Ronnie had third year like Gerrard got that team was gonna be just as good as rodgers

but he gets the credit for ronny talent

ronny gets called cheap option

but ronny signing made club great wealth, might have been under rodgers they flourished but his pizazz and superficial glibness worked treat in beginning and poor ronny gets the nail

and look at my teeth, gets the applause

was he good coach yes

was he good with money

rank rotten

did he wn trebles yes

but mostly with Ronnie players who had 3 years gel through spine with a couple of big name pizzazz

but without ronny backbone rodgers would flop

without Liverpool powerful backbone rodgers would flop

out of his signings at Liverpool were dreadful

and same at Leicester he inherited top players who were gelled just needed a bit of confidence

glib and shameless dudes can convince you to give them your cash for confetti

rodgers is a scam artist

he is as superficial charming as they come

he would stick knife in your back if it made his teeth whiter though

these dudes rule world

not through ability, though they have some, but through sheer self confidence

and its why people follow them

and believe the hype

and that hype is the reason they do well for spell

but it always comes crashing down when the veil reveals the teeth are actually rotten to core. once you spot it, the superficial white emulsion doesn't dazzle you, you just see the rotten bits

And he is the cause of Celtics hubris

it was created by the short term benefits of spending large sums

followed by the plateaux then you need next dude to carry can and stabilise things

but lenny went for more hubris and glibness

and its fallen apart

I agree Ronnie was an excellent coach who brought on Celtics own talent and understood that that talent would be sold one day and he had a system for dealing with that and Brendan reaped the benefit of Ronnies work

 

[TET]

I can't prove anything your right TET, I can only form opinions on what I see and hear.
One of the most damaging statements lenny made earlier in the season was he "would like to play 433, but "
can't cause he has no wingers"
Now what sort of statement is that ment to be?
To me it is a lie on lennys behalf and how can you gain respect if you are prepared to tell blatant lies.
I would say in his defence that he might not get a big enough say upon the players that are recruited.
Either way I am just sick of all the bullshit and speculation we are constantly being spoon fed this seasonimo lenny

imo every statement he makes is retarded this season

why speak in code if he has these issues?

if I wanted to play 433 and was celtic manager and someone was hijacking my plans

first press conference I had

I would say

ive identified a weakness that needs resolved we have shortage of quality on wings or wherever it was I needed fixed

and ive gone to board with solutions and they said naw you need to play wee jimmy cranky coz we bought him and you do what we say

but he doesnt

im pretty certain lenny no the type to be forced to play anybody he didn't buy

besides the players would grass them up imo

right lads

keep schtum

we dont want to upset the board who are shafting your wages

 

[Vigobhoy]

On the playing front, yes I do place the blame upon lenny and would question the professionalism of some of the players also.
Lenny overlooks all football matters within the club and is on record as doing so.
So for instance young players are not being developed enough to get up to first team standard because if they were then why are they not getting a look in when so many regular players are failing him so badly?
Set plays a huge part of the modern game, we can't defend them and do fuck all with our own ones.
Look at our shape without the ball we are all over the place, far to many players way out of position.
Lack of ideas in how to break down any team that plays with a disciplined shape.
I could go on and on with his guessing games in order to try and change things around, but when you listen to comments like "don't know weather we are giving to much information or not enough on the oppersition" is just one of the many signs of a man who is not in control of the situation he has placed us in. It can hardly inspire confidence within the camp, and as a supporter I have long stopped listening to the bollox he is spouting and wouldn't say I am alone in that opinion as it seems to have filtered into the dressing room long ago.
I do agree we have much bigger problems than just lenny, but we have to make a start somewhere, I would have more confidence in the tea lady getting a team set up better than lenny can at the moment.
Who takes over? The million pound question. As things stand I can not see us being able to get in the quality manager we need all the time PL is pulling the strings and that don't seem to be the case of him fucking of soon.
For the meantime maybe broony needs to set up in the short term to maybe get these players back playing to the capability we know they have, but I fear we have so many now that can't wait to get out of the club that we have created an impossible job for anyone to take on at the moment

Johno if that is your answer .... Broony ... who can't even hardly string a sentence together? So he can't influence them on the park during play but is to be thrown in at the deep end to fix the problem. Really?

 

[John nó]

Johno if that is your answer .... Broony ... who can't even hardly string a sentence together? So he can't influence them on the park during play but is to be thrown in at the deep end to fix the problem. Really?

You asked a question on the hear and now as regards a manager.
I believe we can't get the quality manager required in all the while PL is pulling the strings within the club.
Lenny needs to go as regards months ago he should have went imo.
Broony is only an option as a interim manager just to see if he can get any sort of response from the players that lenny can't.
I still haven't given up on the season but can no longer stand watching us deteriorating game after game under lennys command
But its not going to happen until January at the earliest so will possibly have to watch this shitshow continue

 

[Vigobhoy]

You asked a question on the hear and now as regards a manager.
I believe we can't get the quality manager required in all the while PL is pulling the strings within the club.
Lenny needs to go as regards months ago he should have went imo.
Broony is only an option as a interim manager just to see if he can get any sort of response from the players that lenny can't.
I still haven't given up on the season but can no longer stand watching us deteriorating game after game under lennys command
But its not going to happen until January at the earliest so will possibly have to watch this shitshow continue

Broonie was captain and leader on the park in every one of those games you call the shitshow so is he to go as well? I did not ask any question abour the hear and now (sic). I was responding to your baying at the managers heels whilst at the same time not being able to identify the problem other than.... we are losing games, and you would like to see better. I get it, we all do, but nobody here (including me) has any idea of exactly what the remedy is. If ANYBODY connected to this club actually had any idea, we would have resolved the situation already. You have no idea either but SACK the MANAGER, offering Broonie as your solution. Interim you say in the hope that maybe somebody else will figure it out. SACK the CEO without even displaying any knowledge of what a CEO does most of the time. SACK the board when all else fails. SACK all the players... where does it end? If you get rid of everybody there will be no team. Sorry if I am ranting but maybe you could spend all of your spare time trying to be CONstructive.
Edit: Sorry Johnno these are just my opinions. Just remember, magic wands only belong in Harry Potter books.

 

[John nó]

Broonie was captain and leader on the park in every one of those games you call the shitshow so is he to go as well? I did not ask any question abour the hear and now (sic). I was responding to your baying at the managers heels whilst at the same time not being able to identify the problem other than.... we are losing games, and you would like to see better. I get it, we all do, but nobody here (including me) has any idea of exactly what the remedy is. If ANYBODY connected to this club actually had any idea, we would have resolved the situation already. You have no idea either but SACK the MANAGER, offering Broonie as your solution. Interim you say in the hope that maybe somebody else will figure it out. SACK the CEO without even displaying any knowledge of what a CEO does most of the time. SACK the board when all else fails. SACK all the players... where does it end? If you get rid of everybody there will be no team. Sorry if I am ranting but maybe you could spend all of your spare time trying to be CONstructive.
Edit: Sorry Johnno these are just my opinions. Just remember, magic wands only belong in Harry Potter books. I

Sorry Vigobhoy you don't seem to have followed what I have claimed as a potential solution to the current shitshow that is in place.
On the bigger picture I believe the whole club needs a total restructure that can't and won't be done all the while PL has a say in the matter.
DD seems very reluctant to make any changes at the moment.
And lenny seems to have lost all control on the playing side of the club.
The only immediate change available and the one we care most about is the playing side of the club.
The board have chosen to ignore this fact hence the reason the anger amongst the supporters is at an all time high.
There has been plenty said about our past failings of management and all very valid reasons, and yet as a club we don't seem to have learnt from them.
We are currently stuck with so many players that want out of the club maybe at the first opportunity they can get.
We have a transfer window looming and still no direction in which way the club are heading.
We desperately need someone who can oversee this transition in January and still keep the playing side active and competitive and no longer believe lenny is up to the job in hand, hence maybe a interim manager is a solution for the short term but the bigger picture needs addressing which may not start until the season is over.
I am just hoping we may get some answers at the agm as to which way the club may be heading, but in the meantime we have to try and hold on to this season as best we can.
A decision again has been made on the current future regarding lenny, one I don't agree with hence my anger now turns to the board and there own failings.
I would never have seen in my worse nightmare of us been in this current position we are in now, and still yet no change to address the current problems out on the pitch, where us supporters care the most

 

[The Deadner]

In an ideall world, I would get raffa Benitez in til the end of the season to instil a bit of belief in the players and I would get ralf rangnick in after him to rebuild the whole footballing set up within the club. I know that's all wishful thinking, but that's what I would like to see.
Lennon has left the coaching to John Kennedy who by all accounts is a lazy bastard on the training ground and spends most of his time scrolling on his phone. Leaving strachan to pick up the pieces.
I would road Kennedy. He's another snake!

 

[TET]

In an ideall world, I would get raffa Benitez in til the end of the season to instil a bit of belief in the players and I would get ralf rangnick in after him to rebuild the whole footballing set up within the club. I know that's all wishful thinking, but that's what I would like to see.
Lennon has left the coaching to John Kennedy who by all accounts is a lazy bastard on the training ground and spends most of his time scrolling on his phone. Leaving strachan to pick up the pieces.
I would road Kennedy. He's another snake!

he does make a great impression of beaker with his boss

 

[Vigobhoy]

Sorry Vigobhoy you don't seem to have followed what I have claimed as a potential solution to the current shitshow that is in place.
On the bigger picture I believe the whole club needs a total restructure that can't and won't be done all the while PL has a say in the matter.
DD seems very reluctant to make any changes at the moment.
And lenny seems to have lost all control on the playing side of the club.
The only immediate change available and the one we care most about is the playing side of the club.
The board have chosen to ignore this fact hence the reason the anger amongst the supporters is at an all time high.
There has been plenty said about our past failings of management and all very valid reasons, and yet as a club we don't seem to have learnt from them.
We are currently stuck with so many players that want out of the club maybe at the first opportunity they can get.
We have a transfer window looming and still no direction in which way the club are heading.
We desperately need someone who can oversee this transition in January and still keep the playing side active and competitive and no longer believe lenny is up to the job in hand, hence maybe a interim manager is a solution for the short term but the bigger picture needs addressing which may not start until the season is over.
I am just hoping we may get some answers at the agm as to which way the club may be heading, but in the meantime we have to try and hold on to this season as best we can.
A decision again has been made on the current future regarding lenny, one I don't agree with hence my anger now turns to the board and there own failings.
I would never have seen in my worse nightmare of us been in this current position we are in now, and still yet no change to address the current problems out on the pitch, where us supporters care the most

Don't you realise Johnno you have just repeated yourself. Get rid of everybody but now you are hoping that you will get some divine intervention at the AGM. So now you are hoping that the club will have a total restructure as long as PL is sacked. All DD's fault. Lenny has lost all control of his bailiwick so we can get rid of him too.
Not sure what you mean by "The only immediate change available and the one we care most about is the playing side of the club" but "the board have chosen to ignore this FACT?" okay so now we have to sack the board cos you don't like them either. Ergo, get rid of everybody. What did I miss.
Maybe it was your offer of a solution to the problem

 

[The Deadner]

Don't you realise Johnno you have just repeated yourself. Get rid of everybody but now you are hoping that you will get some divine intervention at the AGM. So now you are hoping that the club will have a total restructure as long as PL is sacked. All DD's fault. Lenny has lost all control of his bailiwick so we can get rid of him too.
Not sure what you mean by "The only immediate change available and the one we care most about is the playing side of the club" but "the board have chosen to ignore this FACT?" okay so now we have to sack the board cos you don't like them either. Ergo, get rid of everybody. What did I miss.
Maybe it was your offer of a solution to the problem

Very condescending post.....

 

[TET]

bring back billy stark as caretaker

 

[John nó]

Don't you realise Johnno you have just repeated yourself. Get rid of everybody but now you are hoping that you will get some divine intervention at the AGM. So now you are hoping that the club will have a total restructure as long as PL is sacked. All DD's fault. Lenny has lost all control of his bailiwick so we can get rid of him too.
Not sure what you mean by "The only immediate change available and the one we care most about is the playing side of the club" but "the board have chosen to ignore this FACT?" okay so now we have to sack the board cos you don't like them either. Ergo, get rid of everybody. What did I miss.
Maybe it was your offer of a solution to the problem

Do you what I don't know weather your just a patronising fuck or as thick as two short planks my guess would be both

 

[Winter]

Imo I'm going to bed as interesting as this debate is I'm kip bound and looking forward to it, expect the usuall novel the mora HH