Are my eyes deceiving me mhairi black mp wins award in Scotland

[The Shamrock]

Hiya pal, hopefully have talked oor Sean into coming over yass ??

That would be great though wouldn't Sean miss the hunskelping? I'm sure he has lots to offer the Noise though.

 

[Maria]

That would be great though wouldn't Sean miss the hunskelping? I'm sure he has lots to offer the Noise though.

I reckon for some of our bhoys their just stuck n comfort zone.

I sold him on the greatness of this site and the benefit of sanity plus a wee trip back for the hunskelping.

He said he’ll check it out. Boom. ??

 

[Millsy]

Auld celtic punk :

I did not try to deflect from the accusation against Mhairi Black . If you read what I wrote , I was saying that in the article ( Holyrood Mag. Dec 2017 ) she was referring back to the time of the 2015 Election when she was being castigated for the remarks she made while a teenager .

I did not try to misrepresent the fact that she made these comments in 2017 - if anyone is reading it as such then that is down to my poor wording .
I said that I understood why she used the phrase ''plastic Irishmen'' - and I do .

Maria mentioned that she thought that , earlier , I was seeking to censor your right to post on a subject other than football - that was not my intention . I just wanted to discuss football - but , obviously , we have moved on from there .

 

[Maria]

Auld celtic punk :

I did not try to deflect from the accusation against Mhairi Black . If you read what I wrote , I was saying that in the article ( Holyrood Mag. Dec 2017 ) she was referring back to the time of the 2015 Election when she was being castigated for the remarks she made while a teenager .

I did not try to misrepresent the fact that she made these comments in 2017 - if anyone is reading it as such then that is down to my poor wording .
I said that I understood why she used the phrase ''plastic Irishmen'' - and I do .

Maria mentioned that she thought that , earlier , I was seeking to censor your right to post on a subject other than football - that was not my intention . I just wanted to discuss football - but , obviously , we have moved on from there .

?????

 

[Auld celtic punk]

Auld celtic punk :

I did not try to deflect from the accusation against Mhairi Black . If you read what I wrote , I was saying that in the article ( Holyrood Mag. Dec 2017 ) she was referring back to the time of the 2015 Election when she was being castigated for the remarks she made while a teenager .

I did not try to misrepresent the fact that she made these comments in 2017 - if anyone is reading it as such then that is down to my poor wording .
I said that I understood why she used the phrase ''plastic Irishmen'' - and I do .

Maria mentioned that she thought that , earlier , I was seeking to censor your right to post on a subject other than football - that was not my intention . I just wanted to discuss football - but , obviously , we have moved on from there .

And millsy I found that phrase offensive and patronising. Would she or you expect to get away with saying plastic Pakistanis or plastic Mexicans . Yet she as an opinion maker in this country is being given an award as one of the 10 outstanding women in Scotland of 2018 inspite of these wholly offensive remarks . This phrase far from being condemned and censored by this country and its political elite is Indeed encouraged and rewarded . Where are those who should speak on our behalf. Why have I felt compelled to write and why have so many felt the need to agree.
It is the nature of the remarks that I cannot stand. How can anyone know what is is another persons heart or soul. We are know by what we say. We are taken by our words and our deeds. For this bigoted opinion to be defended on a web site ostensibly for Celtic supporters is nauseating in its self loathing.
I admit that your defence of the opinion stated by the mp for the snp from Paisley , now that it is no longer trying to argue the facts I spoke against but Instead stating your opinion, no longer requires my input and you certainly do not need anyone's approval to opine as you see fit.
It is sad that so much has been said yet no snp people seem capable of condemning the statement which brought my ire to the fore or the organisation whose wholly inapproptiate award fuelled that ire to the point where I started this post.
Too much truth for the managers of the greatest wee small country in the world eh. Not so great if you are an Irish Scot Just listen to the hearts of our political leaders . They who would seem to approve by their tacit endorsement and lack of censure , she of the snp ,who opined plastic Irishmen.

 

[Millsy]

Auld celtic punk :
You and I will have to agree to disagree on this issue .

I have not tried to 'argue against the facts that you wrote about ' as you say - I said read what I initially wrote and you will see that the facts are not in contention .
I simply stated that , in my opinion , I understood what and whom the comment was directed at . You see it differently , as is your right .

 

[JimMc]

I for one can understand exactly where she was coming from as my own mother could be classed as a ''plastic Irishwoman '' given that she was a stout supporter of Ireland and all things Irish ( including singing rebel songs endlessly when drunk ) despite never having any connection whatsoever with Ireland .

Do you consider those in Ireland who refer to themselves as British, as plastic not really real, a lesser british? or do you just accept their claim to identity?

 

[Imatim]

Let the people sing!!!

 

[Maria]

Let the people sing!!!

??????

 

[Imatim]

Auld celtic punk :
You and I will have to agree to disagree on this issue .

I have not tried to 'argue against the facts that you wrote about ' as you say - I said read what I initially wrote and you will see that the facts are not in contention .
I simply stated that , in my opinion , I understood what and whom the comment was directed at . You see it differently , as is your right .

...............................

This is what you said......

"What has this to do with football , on a Celtic site ?
Has she commented on the latest upsurge in Celtic's form , has she drummed up support for the Sevco 'journey ' , has she come out in support of the SFA ?
When she or any politician starts commenting on the football then we can discuss their views".
.............................

Your last paragraph above suggests something quite different to me re your response to Auld Celtic Punk. Perhaps you can clarify this?

 

[Prague67Bhoy]

It is sad that so much has been said yet no snp people seem capable of condemning the statement which brought my ire to the fore or the organisation whose wholly inapproptiate award fuelled that ire to the point where I started this post.
Too much truth for the managers of the greatest wee small country in the world eh. Not so great if you are an Irish Scot Just listen to the hearts of our political leaders . They who would seem to approve by their tacit endorsement and lack of censure , she of the snp ,who opined plastic Irishmen.

It is indeed very sad that there is no parity of esteem for Scots of Irish heritage, and I raised my two daughters out of Scotland for exactly this reason. It is the 21st century yet there is still a sense that somehow those with an Irish background can be freely mocked where other groups are afforded more respect. I was willing to offer Black the benefit of the doubt as often words can be taken out of context, but there appears to be little confusion of what she meant in this case.

 

[Millsy]

...............................

This is what you said......

"What has this to do with football , on a Celtic site ?
Has she commented on the latest upsurge in Celtic's form , has she drummed up support for the Sevco 'journey ' , has she come out in support of the SFA ?
When she or any politician starts commenting on the football then we can discuss their views".
.............................

Your last paragraph above suggests something quite different to me re your response to Auld Celtic Punk. Perhaps you can clarify this?

Hi Imatim ,
I think you have confused my first comment on this thread with the debate I was having with Auld celtic punk .
My remarks in the post you quoted above were not to do with the on going debate . My initial remarks , which you quote , were about the whole subject matter of the thread - the later remarks , which I addressed to Auld celtic punk , were my interpretation ( right or wrong ) of the reasoning behind Mhairi Black's comment.

 

[Theverdict]

I do not even know where to start with this response to my post.
I posted about the second class treatment of my community by a sitting mp in this parliamentary year from Scotland who was a member of the snp for Paisley . Her name is mhairi black .
The snl mp for Paisley mhairi black was given a saltire society outstanding woman of Scotland award this week in spite of her anti Irish scots statement of December 2017 ( less than a year ago and presumably therefore not a drunken wee fourteen year olds post. Instead a presumably honestly held opinion which she freely gave in an interview to the Scottish political forum holyrood.com and published on 18 12 2017)
I went further to chastise Scottish society in general for allowing this sort of overt racism to continue, and worse flourish by the presenting of an award to an opinion former who expresses such opinions.
I then pointed out a few other examples that are pertinent to the football world.
I am not and never have been a part of any political party. Theverdict you have brought your own prejudice into play . You have deflected and aggressively attempted to move my discussion points to benefit an argument you are not having on what I have said But upon what you wish or think I have said in order to push an agenda you are trying to push.
From your basic anti labour diatribe I feel you have some snp connection and I would urge you from within the party to question such opinions which do your cause no credit and further rather than defending the plastic Irish comment I would urge you to press for some form of censure for the mp in question.
If this is not forthcoming I would urge fellow Irish scots who support Celtic to chose their political party on the basis of their treatment And intention towards us rather than what we assume they intend to us.
Yep and I posted on the general chat thinking this was the purpose. If I am out of order by doing so it was not my intention.
Yours in Celtic hh.

I was a member of the Labour Oarty for years. The tweets I was referring to where not from last year. Put the new ones up would you. I never heard a thing about the new ones which seems diffucult to see why. This would be seized upon by political enemies. So I would be interested to see them.

I was responding because you were basically saying one MP says something that offends you and that the whole party should be disowned.

Even is she came out today and said the Popes a cunt and Catholics should be deported, does not mean you abandon a party, it means you get rid of the MP.

To hold someone to task for their whole life because they made an arse of something is extreme. If you put up your claims she did something in 2017 I would be delighted to see it.

It still wouldn’t stop me voting SNP. I parted company with the Labour Party, as hundreds of thousands of Scots have done because they betrayed what Labour should be.

You are using your offence at an individual opinion, if she doesn’t like seperate education, big deal, plenty of people don’t. If she doesnt like the Catholic Church, well it hasn’t being helping itself has it, so again it’s a widely held view, even among Catholics, which I have learned she is.

If she says anything bigoted then that’s different. Her early tweets were in that ballpark. They still shouldn’t condemn her to no future and certainly not undermine totally a party because they may have a bad un. That’s totally disproportional and says as much about your hate of the SNP as my post clearly shows my hated of labour.

Put up the recent tweets that offended you please. But as I said, a party cannot he brought down because one MP offends you. Or everybody.

 

[Auld celtic punk]

I am off to be

It is indeed very sad that there is no parity of esteem for Scots of Irish heritage, and I raised my two daughters out of Scotland for exactly this reason. It is the 21st century yet there is still a sense that somehow those with an Irish background can be freely mocked where other groups are afforded more respect. I was willing to offer Black the benefit of the doubt as often words can be taken out of context, but there appears to be little confusion of what she meant in this case.

Mocked belittled insulted. I see this as more but I take your point.
The next question is who will defend our community .
This Scottish government seems hell bent on ostracising our minority for the sake of the opinion expressed by the mp from Paisley for the snp . Ms black appears from her award to be deeply in the fold of the Scottish elite. I know Celtic fans, Irish scots and not , who must have the ear of the established party in Scotland and also that section of the party sent down to London as our people. They must speak to the SNP. For us since the SNP will not listen to a lone Celtic fan of Irish extraction on a Celtic web talk forum.
Not one of the SNP who read this site and who have come onto this post have been able to defend the SNP mp or her opinion that has been expressed so offensively on 18 December 2017. Some agree ! Some understand ! But none defend this indefensible. I however have had anti labour vitriolic posts ( I am not and never have been a member of any political party) I have had posts about inapproptiate posting of a non football topic . I have had lies or mistakes about the nature of the post by the SNP mp for Paisley which started my discussion in the first place. When her post was made the circumstances and such( youthful drunk excess , not meant for public scrutiny,( rather than the facts as outlined in holyrood.com) ). I have had all this but I have yet to hear from anyone who supports the SNP who states that this post is wrong.
Is this the state of politics in Scotland now. Is this where we have came? So far into the new Scotland that we can see how it works. You can get away with almost anything as long as it mostly affects or offends the Irish scots. Is this really the Scotland that so many Irish ancestry / Irish scots voted for in their droves to elect SNP msp / mp / mep / councilors . Are you getting what you expected ? If not who are you speaking to about it ? Is project fear once so courageously exposed by your party now to be re-branded as party fear. Fear of saying anything against the establishment of brave nova caladonia.

 

[Auld celtic punk]

I was a member of the Labour Oarty for years. The tweets I was referring to where not from last year. Put the new ones up would you. I never heard a thing about the new ones which seems diffucult to see why. This would be seized upon by political enemies. So I would be interested to see them.

I was responding because you were basically saying one MP says something that offends you and that the whole party should be disowned.

Even is she came out today and said the Popes a cunt and Catholics should be deported, does not mean you abandon a party, it means you get rid of the MP.

To hold someone to task for their whole life because they made an arse of something is extreme. If you put up your claims she did something in 2017 I would be delighted to see it.

It still wouldn’t stop me voting SNP. I parted company with the Labour Party, as hundreds of thousands of Scots have done because they betrayed what Labour should be.

You are using your offence at an individual opinion, if she doesn’t like seperate education, big deal, plenty of people don’t. If she doesnt like the Catholic Church, well it hasn’t being helping itself has it, so again it’s a widely held view, even among Catholics, which I have learned she is.

If she says anything bigoted then that’s different. Her early tweets were in that ballpark. They still shouldn’t condemn her to no future and certainly not undermine totally a party because they may have a bad un. That’s totally disproportional and says as much about your hate of the SNP as my post clearly shows my hated of labour.

Put up the recent tweets that offended you please. But as I said, a party cannot he brought down because one MP offends you. Or everybody.

My original and subsequent posts have consistently been about the same comment. This is how a discussion works. You don't just argue the case you want. You address the points.
So directly again do you find the statement plastic Irishmen offensive? It is the first part of my post and relates to the interview of ms mhairi black as published by the website holyrood.com on 18 12 2017.

 

[Auld celtic punk]

My original and subsequent posts have consistently been about the same comment. This is how a discussion works. You don't just argue the case you want. You address the points.
So directly again do you find the statement plastic Irishmen offensive? It is the first part of my post and relates to the interview of ms mhairi black as published by the website holyrood.com on 18 12 2017.

We are out of synch but I shall go on . This post is not about tweets ( although you seem desperately to want it to be so for som reason ), this is about SNP mp mhairi black statement In the holyrood . Com article dated 18 12 2017 where she refers to people of Irish scots ancestry as " plastic Irishmen " in a comment about her treatment during her election campaign. The statement by the current mp for Paisley, an SNP mp ms mhairi black was not a tweet from 10 or 5 years ago it was clearly attributed to her in the aforementioned article. I cannot say it more clearly. I find this fascist and I am offended by it.
You say I should not throw out a party because of the actions of one individual member no matter what they say. But if there is no public censure from that party then that party is by default condoning the racist remark. It is the inability of the SNP hierarchy or even grassroots membership to call out in the most public way such remarks which is baffling me,not the SNP . I have voted for my beliefs and I feel no urge to express that vote , it is a personal attack to put words in my mouth by saying I am obviously anti SNP .

 

[Imatim]

Hi Imatim ,
I think you have confused my first comment on this thread with the debate I was having with Auld celtic punk .
My remarks in the post you quoted above were not to do with the on going debate . My initial remarks , which you quote , were about the whole subject matter of the thread - the later remarks , which I addressed to Auld celtic punk , were my interpretation ( right or wrong ) of the reasoning behind Mhairi Black's comment.

.......................

Let me simplify things.......you said in this paragraph below....

"When she or any politician starts commenting on the football then we can discuss their views".

What I take your words to mean is that it is your opinion that only when football is the narrative should views be allowed to be discussed on here. This imo isn't right and in essence is censorship and if allowed to become reality would deny people airing their views and that is not what a blog like this is all about imo.

I can't read this any other way I'm afraid.

 

[Millsy]

.......................

Let me simplify things.......you said in this paragraph below....

"When she or any politician starts commenting on the football then we can discuss their views".

What I take your words to mean is that it is your opinion that only when football is the narrative should views be allowed to be discussed on here. This imo isn't right and in essence is censorship and if allowed to become reality would deny people airing their views and that is not what a blog like this is all about imo.

I can't read this any other way I'm afraid.

Sorry , I can't explain any more . Take my comments anyway you like . I have not tried to twist the facts , I have stated my opinion , as have you .

 

[Auld celtic punk]

I stand by my posts.
I now call out SNP supporters to condemn this rascism by their party for not speaking out against ms mhairi black the Paisley mp for the SNP and for not condemning the saltire society for the award as one of the 10 outstanding women of Scotland for 2018 within 10 months of such a rascist post.
I also call out SNP members from their party fear hiding holes to stand up for Scotland's oldest minority. Judging by the calibre of argument I have been given by these members I suspect instead that I will turn out not to have been offended when I started this. Anything appears in their opinion rather rather than the fact their party is backing the bad ones here.
Yours in Celtic hh.

 

[HD1450]

All politicians make me sick, all out for themselves no matter what party they belong to, better sticking to the football guys??