Cost of the common denominator - from Celtic Underground

read it earlierMillsy,did ye get the feelin PL is rippin the pish and DD'staken his eye off the ball!

http://celticunderground.net/the-cost-of-the-common-denominator/

I don't believe for one moment that Dermot Desmond is a Celtic fan. He perhaps likes the status afforded by his position on the board but I get the distinct impression he is sneering at the rest of us behind that mustache. Celtic is about making money for Desmond et al. Yes the smaller investors are fans but their share of the spoils is on a different level.
What would it take for complete fan ownership; Xthousand fans at £Xthousand apiece? That's the only way we will ever free the club from profiteers.
 
T
Fans are not going to boycott.
I have never understood the reluctance to do so, because it brought down a previous board and it can certainly rid of us of an interfering, over mighty CEO who should have taken his marbles home a half dozen years ago.

This from his blog today. And please don't anyone come on and say he is not advocating boycott, he is, no question.
HH

A lot of talk around the AIK game. It’s the only weapon we have. Support the team sack the board. Tomorrow will be a hermits address book. If they want to avert a complete revolt they better get the players we need in. I support a boycott if they don’t.

We brought down they self interested bastards before, if we need be, we do it again. I’m a shareholder and I would hope others take a stand and turn up at the next AGM to give them fucking pelters if they don’t move their arses.
 
A lot of talk around the AIK game. It’s the only weapon we have. Support the team sack the board. Tomorrow will be a hermits address book. If they want to avert a complete revolt they better get the players we need in. I support a boycott if they don’t.

We brought down they self interested bastards before, if we need be, we do it again. I’m a shareholder and I would hope others take a stand and turn up at the next AGM to give them fucking pelters if they don’t move their arses.
How a boycott supports the team is beyond me. Give thempelters at the AgM but you boycott and we lose 9 and 10 we will only have ourselves to blame. This chance might not come round again anytime soon.
For the record I am a shareholder as no doubt many on here are
HH
 
Been saying this for days MD. Where the f*k is DD? Where is the reasurrances we should be getting from our leader? Lenny hasn't given any PL and DD the same. All we hear is it's £20 to watch the AIK game and that's shocking news and hardly what we want to hear. After dunfermline we've got really big games in AIK, hearts and sevco. We deserve better HH
Lie well. He’s got a cheek
 
There is obviously a divide among the supporters regarding how the club is run.

That divide is not as straightforward as a for or agin question, there are a huge swathe of undecideds who will alter their allegiances on a game-by-game basis.

The pro-board camp are not necessarily averse to infrastructural change, but it has to benefit the club in all aspects of the operation. From the field of play straight through to the fiduciary practices of the board.

The anti-board camp seem (and I emphasise the seem) to want wholesale change within the boardroom and also in team management. There are no guarantees that any alternative tenants of the boardroom can provide this.

Every single one of us (regardless of our position) are aware that there are significant issues which need to be addressed, but boycotts and protestation can often create rifts among the support which will never be healed. It is only the fans and players that suffer in that scenario, seldom those who operate in the inner-sanctum. There may be short-term pain for those folk, but it rarely endures and still the wounds are left raw and open to infection.

By all means be angry, pissed off, furious, despondent, vitriolic and vocal - but remember that it is the men wearing Hoops we support, not the men wearing suits.
 
There is obviously a divide among the supporters regarding how the club is run.

That divide is not as straightforward as a for or agin question, there are a huge swathe of undecideds who will alter their allegiances on a game-by-game basis.

The pro-board camp are not necessarily averse to infrastructural change, but it has to benefit the club in all aspects of the operation. From the field of play straight through to the fiduciary practices of the board.

The anti-board camp seem (and I emphasise the seem) to want wholesale change within the boardroom and also in team management. There are no guarantees that any alternative tenants of the boardroom can provide this.

Every single one of us (regardless of our position) are aware that there are significant issues which need to be addressed, but boycotts and protestation can often create rifts among the support which will never be healed. It is only the fans and players that suffer in that scenario, seldom those who operate in the inner-sanctum. There may be short-term pain for those folk, but it rarely endures and still the wounds are left raw and open to infection.

By all means be angry, pissed off, furious, despondent, vitriolic and vocal - but remember that it is the men wearing Hoops we support, not the men wearing suits.
well said again SP! HH
 
No doubt I am in a minority here. However I have just read the James Forrest ( apparently a life long Celt) anti Lawwell diatribes and urging supporters to boycott and withdraw from the home cup ticket scheme. ( why you would join in the first place beats me)
I am not getting into a numbers debate though I could but Ffs we lost a game. We might even lose against Stockholm and them. We are all disappointed but you can be dead sure the more we kick our own the greater the glee in Govan. I have seen it already first hand. They smell blood.
I can understand the upset but to pick Lawwell and Lennon but ignore DD is ludicrous.
I said previously that the end of the window will give us a gauge for the next two seasons
Green Brigade ,if you are there , do the crowd contrary thing and show our fans what it is to support this treble treble club and send Mr Forrest away with his tail between his legs.
Again let's not beat ourselves, please. We will all regret it! It is our club, support it now of all times when we are on the verge of history.
HH

We didn't just lose a game though did we, we lost a crack at CL football and the £30m that goes with it yet again and what is this 'apparently a life long Celt' dig? Whit so because Forrest has had a rant his authenticity as a 'life long Celt' gets called into question? Is this where we're at now, if you don't toe the party line then your credentials as a Celtic fan are under suspicion and you become a legitimate target to be hounded and intimidated like we're living under some sort of oppressive regime ffs? Does that go for the rest of us who want to see the serious issues at the club addressed?

For the record there is plenty I disagree with Forrest on and I couldn't disagree more with his call for a boycott, why should the team be punished for the failings of those above them after all, but you don't 'bring everyone together' by sending out a clarion call for Celtic fans to turn their guns on fellow Tims because they don't bow to your wishes of moving on and you certainly don't bring them together by calling on the Green Brigade to 'show our fans what it is to support this treble treble club' either, like the rest of us who don't sit in the North Curve are somehow lesser fans who need to be shown what a true supporter is! I've been going to games since I was a wean, I've been a season ticket holder since the days of Fergus, I've put thousands of my hard earned into this club and I'm there rain hail or shine including those freezing winter days and nights so should my Celtic supporter credentials be called into question? Do I need to be shown what it is to be a supporter?

You've got one thing right though it isn't just Lennon and Lawell who should be in the firing line DD and the rest of the board should be right there with them. In fact scratch that because as much as Lenny was culpable for Tuesday night's defeat the problems were there long before he stepped back in to the managerial hotseat so while he may have tactically shat the bed on Tuesday night he's not responsible for the deeper issues that exist at the club. I'm not interested in seeing anyone get the sack or Lawell and the board being run out of town all I'm interested in is seeing this club be all that it can be and for those at the helm to do all they can to achieve that and that's not what I'm seeing, what I am seeing is wilful neglect by a board who try to get by doing the bare minimum.

You talk about 'beating ourselves' well that goes for those running the club too because while I sympathise with the idea of circling the wagons I also recognise that by doing so we let those at the top off the hook for their failings yet again. Nothing is gained by burying our heads in the sand and pretending that everything is rosy because it's not, I'll leave that to the horde across the city who have completely turned reality on it's head and attack anyone who doesn't fall into line just so it doesn't have to face up to it's own problems and some uncomfortable truths! Neither will I be emotionally blackmailed by having my love for Celtic crassly used to manipulate me into silence, for as long as the criticism is valid then every Celtic supporter should have the right to voice them without being made to feel like they're being disloyal or less of a supporter or worse still like they're somehow aiding and abetting the Sevvies in bringing us down! No, that's not who we are our strength has always been in our willingness to speak up even when it's not easy and what's being said is difficult for others to hear!

Will I still be roaring on Lenny and the team? You're damn right I will be! Will I be shutting up and falling into line? Not a chance! Nothing personal but if this was supposed to be some sort of rallying call then you've seriously misstepped.

HH.
 
We didn't just lose a game though did we, we lost a crack at CL football and the £30m that goes with it yet again and what is this 'apparently a life long Celt' dig? Whit so because Forrest has had a rant his authenticity as a 'life long Celt' gets called into question? Is this where we're at now, if you don't toe the party line then your credentials as a Celtic fan are under suspicion and you become a legitimate target to be hounded and intimidated like we're living under some sort of oppressive regime ffs? Does that go for the rest of us who want to see the serious issues at the club addressed?

For the record there is plenty I disagree with Forrest on and I couldn't disagree more with his call for a boycott, why should the team be punished for the failings of those above them after all, but you don't 'bring everyone together' by sending out a clarion call for Celtic fans to turn their guns on fellow Tims because they don't bow to your wishes of moving on and you certainly don't bring them together by calling on the Green Brigade to 'show our fans what it is to support this treble treble club' either, like the rest of us who don't sit in the North Curve are somehow lesser fans who need to be shown what a true supporter is! I've been going to games since I was a wean, I've been a season ticket holder since the days of Fergus, I've put thousands of my hard earned into this club and I'm there rain hail or shine including those freezing winter days and nights so should my Celtic supporter credentials be called into question? Do I need to be shown what it is to be a supporter?

You've got one thing right though it isn't just Lennon and Lawell who should be in the firing line DD and the rest of the board should be right there with them. In fact scratch that because as much as Lenny was culpable for Tuesday night's defeat the problems were there long before he stepped back in to the managerial hotseat so while he may have tactically shat the bed on Tuesday night he's not responsible for the deeper issues that exist at the club. I'm not interested in seeing anyone get the sack or Lawell and the board being run out of town all I'm interested in is seeing this club be all that it can be and for those at the helm to do all they can to achieve that and that's not what I'm seeing, what I am seeing is wilful neglect by a board who try to get by doing the bare minimum.

You talk about 'beating ourselves' well that goes for those running the club too because while I sympathise with the idea of circling the wagons I also recognise that by doing so we let those at the top off the hook for their failings yet again. Nothing is gained by burying our heads in the sand and pretending that everything is rosy because it's not, I'll leave that to the horde across the city who have completely turned reality on it's head and attack anyone who doesn't fall into line just so it doesn't have to face up to it's own problems and some uncomfortable truths! Neither will I be emotionally blackmailed by having my love for Celtic crassly used to manipulate me into silence, for as long as the criticism is valid then every Celtic supporter should have the right to voice them without being made to feel like they're being disloyal or less of a supporter or worse still like they're somehow aiding and abetting the Sevvies in bringing us down! No, that's not who we are our strength has always been in our willingness to speak up even when it's not easy and what's being said is difficult for others to hear!

Will I still be roaring on Lenny and the team? You're damn right I will be! Will I be shutting up and falling into line? Not a chance! Nothing personal but if this was supposed to be some sort of rallying call then you've seriously misstepped.

HH.
What Andy said!(y)(y)(y)(y)
 
We didn't just lose a game though did we, we lost a crack at CL football and the £30m that goes with it yet again and what is this 'apparently a life long Celt' dig? Whit so because Forrest has had a rant his authenticity as a 'life long Celt' gets called into question? Is this where we're at now, if you don't toe the party line then your credentials as a Celtic fan are under suspicion and you become a legitimate target to be hounded and intimidated like we're living under some sort of oppressive regime ffs? Does that go for the rest of us who want to see the serious issues at the club addressed?

For the record there is plenty I disagree with Forrest on and I couldn't disagree more with his call for a boycott, why should the team be punished for the failings of those above them after all, but you don't 'bring everyone together' by sending out a clarion call for Celtic fans to turn their guns on fellow Tims because they don't bow to your wishes of moving on and you certainly don't bring them together by calling on the Green Brigade to 'show our fans what it is to support this treble treble club' either, like the rest of us who don't sit in the North Curve are somehow lesser fans who need to be shown what a true supporter is! I've been going to games since I was a wean, I've been a season ticket holder since the days of Fergus, I've put thousands of my hard earned into this club and I'm there rain hail or shine including those freezing winter days and nights so should my Celtic supporter credentials be called into question? Do I need to be shown what it is to be a supporter?

You've got one thing right though it isn't just Lennon and Lawell who should be in the firing line DD and the rest of the board should be right there with them. In fact scratch that because as much as Lenny was culpable for Tuesday night's defeat the problems were there long before he stepped back in to the managerial hotseat so while he may have tactically shat the bed on Tuesday night he's not responsible for the deeper issues that exist at the club. I'm not interested in seeing anyone get the sack or Lawell and the board being run out of town all I'm interested in is seeing this club be all that it can be and for those at the helm to do all they can to achieve that and that's not what I'm seeing, what I am seeing is wilful neglect by a board who try to get by doing the bare minimum.

You talk about 'beating ourselves' well that goes for those running the club too because while I sympathise with the idea of circling the wagons I also recognise that by doing so we let those at the top off the hook for their failings yet again. Nothing is gained by burying our heads in the sand and pretending that everything is rosy because it's not, I'll leave that to the horde across the city who have completely turned reality on it's head and attack anyone who doesn't fall into line just so it doesn't have to face up to it's own problems and some uncomfortable truths! Neither will I be emotionally blackmailed by having my love for Celtic crassly used to manipulate me into silence, for as long as the criticism is valid then every Celtic supporter should have the right to voice them without being made to feel like they're being disloyal or less of a supporter or worse still like they're somehow aiding and abetting the Sevvies in bringing us down! No, that's not who we are our strength has always been in our willingness to speak up even when it's not easy and what's being said is difficult for others to hear!

Will I still be roaring on Lenny and the team? You're damn right I will be! Will I be shutting up and falling into line? Not a chance! Nothing personal but if this was supposed to be some sort of rallying call then you've seriously misstepped.

HH.
Good points ,don’t always agree with JF,!either,but he has the right to say what he said ,ok ,we won’t walk out ,but the latest rant from Lennon,in denying any blame,gives all of us the right to make comments!,and in doing so does not make us ‘lesser fans’,hh
 
Good points ,don’t always agree with JF,!either,but he has the right to say what he said ,ok ,we won’t walk out ,but the latest rant from Lennon,in denying any blame,gives all of us the right to make comments!,and in doing so does not make us ‘lesser fans’,hh

Spot on Ray. Disappointing from Lenny today, his refusal to accept he got things wrong in Tuesday's defeat when everybody and their granny knows it doesn't reflect well on him at all and his 'top class board' comment makes him look like he's being worked from behind. Let the board come out and defend their own actions/inaction instead of allowing them to hide away while he and others have to front it out.

HH mate (y)
 
Spot on Ray. Disappointing from Lenny today, his refusal to accept he got things wrong in Tuesday's defeat when everybody and their granny knows it doesn't reflect well on him at all and his 'top class board' comment makes him look like he's being worked from behind. Let the board come out and defend their own actions/inaction instead of allowing them to hide away while he and others have to front it out.

HH mate (y)
Andy agree ,point is ,since Lennon’s last appointment till now ,seems to me he has learned nothing ,hh
 
The most strange thing I find hard to understand over the last week is the lack of a positive signing to try to distract us from the disasterous display on Tuesday. The board must have been waiting for months now for KT to be signed. We even knew we'd be getting £25m when he left. Therefore, as soon as he signed for the Arse we should have been finalising the signings of new players already lined up.

This would have given the club a real boost going into the Cluj game. Even a signing or 2 lined up for this midweek in case, heaven forbid, we fecked things up. Instead, nothing, nowt, zilch, zip, feck all!

This shows a real lack of management and succession planning. Never mind us dismantling our scouting network - a simple fan like me could have provided us with a couple of decent needed affordable players who would have secured 9IAR (although I would have had them in 6 weeks ago and maybe, just maybe, they would have helped us to the holy land of the Champions League).

But so far - nothing. FFS - this is basic management skills!
 
I think we are all entitled to an opinion!
HH

Exactly my point mate. As I said nothing personal but ostracising people who don't share your's, questioning their credentials as Celtic supporters for being critical and making them feel like if they don't toe the party line then they'll be rounded on is not the way to go about uniting a support.

I get the desire to circle the wagons but are those supporters who are being critical to be left outside the circle?

HH.
 
We didn't just lose a game though did we, we lost a crack at CL football and the £30m that goes with it yet again and what is this 'apparently a life long Celt' dig? Whit so because Forrest has had a rant his authenticity as a 'life long Celt' gets called into question? Is this where we're at now, if you don't toe the party line then your credentials as a Celtic fan are under suspicion and you become a legitimate target to be hounded and intimidated like we're living under some sort of oppressive regime ffs? Does that go for the rest of us who want to see the serious issues at the club addressed?

For the record there is plenty I disagree with Forrest on and I couldn't disagree more with his call for a boycott, why should the team be punished for the failings of those above them after all, but you don't 'bring everyone together' by sending out a clarion call for Celtic fans to turn their guns on fellow Tims because they don't bow to your wishes of moving on and you certainly don't bring them together by calling on the Green Brigade to 'show our fans what it is to support this treble treble club' either, like the rest of us who don't sit in the North Curve are somehow lesser fans who need to be shown what a true supporter is! I've been going to games since I was a wean, I've been a season ticket holder since the days of Fergus, I've put thousands of my hard earned into this club and I'm there rain hail or shine including those freezing winter days and nights so should my Celtic supporter credentials be called into question? Do I need to be shown what it is to be a supporter?

You've got one thing right though it isn't just Lennon and Lawell who should be in the firing line DD and the rest of the board should be right there with them. In fact scratch that because as much as Lenny was culpable for Tuesday night's defeat the problems were there long before he stepped back in to the managerial hotseat so while he may have tactically shat the bed on Tuesday night he's not responsible for the deeper issues that exist at the club. I'm not interested in seeing anyone get the sack or Lawell and the board being run out of town all I'm interested in is seeing this club be all that it can be and for those at the helm to do all they can to achieve that and that's not what I'm seeing, what I am seeing is wilful neglect by a board who try to get by doing the bare minimum.

You talk about 'beating ourselves' well that goes for those running the club too because while I sympathise with the idea of circling the wagons I also recognise that by doing so we let those at the top off the hook for their failings yet again. Nothing is gained by burying our heads in the sand and pretending that everything is rosy because it's not, I'll leave that to the horde across the city who have completely turned reality on it's head and attack anyone who doesn't fall into line just so it doesn't have to face up to it's own problems and some uncomfortable truths! Neither will I be emotionally blackmailed by having my love for Celtic crassly used to manipulate me into silence, for as long as the criticism is valid then every Celtic supporter should have the right to voice them without being made to feel like they're being disloyal or less of a supporter or worse still like they're somehow aiding and abetting the Sevvies in bringing us down! No, that's not who we are our strength has always been in our willingness to speak up even when it's not easy and what's being said is difficult for others to hear!

Will I still be roaring on Lenny and the team? You're damn right I will be! Will I be shutting up and falling into line? Not a chance! Nothing personal but if this was supposed to be some sort of rallying call then you've seriously misstepped.

HH.
Give that man a cigar

JFs patronising piece

i stopped reading at The Celtic supporters association ,
a shower of board loving arseholes

if thats who were relying on then we are truly fkd
 
Spot on Ray. Disappointing from Lenny today, his refusal to accept he got things wrong in Tuesday's defeat when everybody and their granny knows it doesn't reflect well on him at all and his 'top class board' comment makes him look like he's being worked from behind. Let the board come out and defend their own actions/inaction instead of allowing them to hide away while he and others have to front it out.

HH mate (y)
I've presented many a defence for Lenny in these last few months. I strongly supported his candidacy for the permanent post and I insisted that his recent experiences would have prepared him for the challenges ahead.

I was extremely disappointed with his post-match comments on Tuesday, I am even more disappointed at his comments today.

Everyone was culpable on Tuesday, but none more so than Lenny for his naivety and lack of tactical awareness.

I've backed my horse for the race, Andy, and I'd be an even bigger hypocrite than usual if I didn't continue to keep backing him, but it is inexcusable to pass the buck and fail to recognise his own mistakes.
 
The most strange thing I find hard to understand over the last week is the lack of a positive signing to try to distract us from the disasterous display on Tuesday. The board must have been waiting for months now for KT to be signed. We even knew we'd be getting £25m when he left. Therefore, as soon as he signed for the Arse we should have been finalising the signings of new players already lined up.

This would have given the club a real boost going into the Cluj game. Even a signing or 2 lined up for this midweek in case, heaven forbid, we fecked things up. Instead, nothing, nowt, zilch, zip, feck all!

This shows a real lack of management and succession planning. Never mind us dismantling our scouting network - a simple fan like me could have provided us with a couple of decent needed affordable players who would have secured 9IAR (although I would have had them in 6 weeks ago and maybe, just maybe, they would have helped us to the holy land of the Champions League).

But so far - nothing. FFS - this is basic management skills!

Makes you wonder BB if the only reason they shelled out the £10m for Julien and Boli in the first place was because, like you say, they knew for months KT was going.

HH mate (y)
 
I've presented many a defence for Lenny in these last few months. I strongly supported his candidacy for the permanent post and I insisted that his recent experiences would have prepared him for the challenges ahead.

I was extremely disappointed with his post-match comments on Tuesday, I am even more disappointed at his comments today.

Everyone was culpable on Tuesday, but none more so than Lenny for his naivety and lack of tactical awareness.

I've backed my horse for the race, Andy, and I'd be an even bigger hypocrite than usual if I didn't continue to keep backing him, but it is inexcusable to pass the buck and fail to recognise his own mistakes.
same here SP, ah backed him from the start......but he has to start,well, aw phuq it!
 

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