Prague67Bhoy
Well-known member
Naw, but that is exactly why brexit is such a cluster fuck, BBB?
I'm pretty sure that the heavy industries that the commonwealth turned a buck on are all but gone. The giant supermarkets have pretty much complete ownership of arable land. The dependence on fossil fuel has seen the Americans drain our oil reserves (if they were actually ours in the first instance) and along with it, any notion that britain has any influence to exert.
The only relevance of an isolated Britain, is that it gives Russia, or perhaps China, an entry point into western Europe with either gas or steel bribes.
Britain has as much clout as their token monarch and it is dependent on their relationship with mainland Europe for any remaining car industry of note, or profitable mass production industries. Without these fluid trading links, the tariffs imposed on Britain will cripple its economy and these foreign investors will happily fuck off to central and Eastern Europe to open their production points.
Britain sealed its own fate when it tarted itself out to America Post WWII. That is the most principled reason why Scotland needs independence, to forge its own path with our European neighbours and disengage itself from the tumour that's weighing us down and eating us from the inside out.
Forget oil, that was never on the agenda as a feasible long-term revenue stream, but there are more important geographical features and resources that make our corner of the island an attractive proposition to mainland Europe. During the entente cordial, France weren't interested in us due to our military might. They were interested in our location and nuisance value.
In the aftermath of any brexit agreement, Nethanhayu, MBS, Putin and China will be making eyes at britain with nothing but their own interests at heart. Britain will become the world's biggest laundry for dirty money, dirty fuel, dirty nuclear plants and dirty blood diamonds.
Then again, according to bozo boris, nasty nigel and little tommy tit robinson, we'll have a thriving health service (ha fuckin ha), less immigration and sterling world trading partners that will generate trillions in trade (ha fuckin haha).
Regardless of anyone's political perspective, brexit doesn't play out well for Scotland, it doesn't play out well for Ulster - and Wales will effectively have english county-status.
An independent Scottish Republic doesn't immediately turn into industrial utopia. It will struggle for generations to come until it carves its own wee niche through a willing to adapt and finding alternative solutions ; however - it would be OUR struggle alone, not one enforced by westminster dimwits who have all the vision of stevie wonder in a pea-souper.
It's NOT a nationalist question. It does not automatically assume that the SNP are the most influential political presence. It is a means to an end which will represent a new beginning.
If we fuck up, then it will be our fuck up. We can even take ownership of it and be proud of it, but surely it's better than being buckled up the chutney by Westminster on a fairly regularly occurring basis?
It's all hypotheticals in the meantime, you're right to assert that the world is pissing itself laughing, BBB. That same world is also pissing itself laughing at the mentally challenged fool operating in Washington and if you need further evidence of the future of britain after being subjugated by Russia, then look no further than Washington and the shutdowns, trade defecits and having it's arse felt by the great bear.
MD referred to a potential civil war in the aftermath of any independence strategoy. I happen to think he has a point. The thing is that that may not be as bloody and protracted as other civil conflicts, in so much that the voices of dissent are the hard-line orange bastards whose relevance is being diluted year-by-year. Up north - the decent protestant population want no part of that jambo-ree. That's also being evidenced in Ulster while they procrastinate over their own commitment to their future. It's a negative prognosis, but not any more negative than families being unable to feed themselves and a second Highland clearance as a result of a hard brexit and no hope of soft trade deals with Europe. In that scenario, there is no fucking way the English will allow us to feed ourselves. Our resources will be topping up the swamp down south.
I'm not an authority on the subject and I'm certainly not an expert, but I do believe that we have a once in a lifetime opportunity to make our presence felt and start a long, painful - but ultimately promising chapter in our country's long history.
This is among the finest, most eloquent, and also most elegant posts that I have read on this subject.
I have not lived in Scotland for about 30 years and for the past 20 I have resided in the Czech Republic. Given my long-term absence, I have resisted the urge to excessively add my voice to either the Brexit issue or to the matter of Scottish independence. However, it is painful to watch business investment flood east in anticipation of a Brexit cluster fuck.
Here in the Czech Republic, unemployment is hovering just above 2.7% yet more and more FDI pours in because this nation is a member of the EU. Leave the EU and all the jobs will soon follow through the exit door. One of my part time roles is with a major robotics manufacturer which has so many orders that the lag time for delivery is more than seven months (basically, there are more jobs than people to fill the available roles.) At the moment, if you lose your job over here you will probably find a new one inside a month.....or inside a week!
In reality, Czechs are acutely Euro-sceptic but despite that they would not dream of leaving the union. Sure, they recognise the bloated bureaucracy, but there is an understanding that a union of 27 or 28 national entities requires a huge amount of bureaucrats! Economically, it is just not worth considering Czexit!
Moreover, university education in Scotland is free for Czech students, just as university education here is free for Scottish students....and there are many other tangible benefits of the relationship that has been forged since 2004 when the Czech joined the club.
Sure, there is a nationalist political party (the populist SPD or Svoboda a přímá demokracie) but it is minor and is unlikely to make much headway. There are a great many supporters of the SPD who, despite all their nationalistic ferver, support the principles of the EU (albeit with a desire for some reforms).
I cannot get my head around why Brexit, with the flight of capital and employment, would appeal to anyone in Scotland. The argument that a second vote would be an attack on democracy is build from straw. No one would buy a newspaper that was 30 months out of date...... for the simple reason it is 30 months out of date. Likewise, the Brexit vote is 30 months out of date.....and the landscape has changed!
From afar, I would love to see Scotland gain independence and then take steps to re-engage with the EU. It is not just a matter of economics and defence....there are more 'mundane' tangible benefits for us all. Sure, the new Scottish Republic may suffer teething problems, but as masters of your own destiny you could find the right solutions.