K
kelly
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Looks like he's took his baw n fkd off for the night bloggers take it personal
The caveat to that is that many of us have experiences that pre-date 2001 and you only have to go back a further 12-years prior to that date to have known what it was to be flung into the midst of a living nightmare.In response to the original post, which I agree with in many aspects, negativity to me is partially a state of mind and partially a blend of emotions, such as frustration, anxiety and anger. It's not difficult to see why some of us are in a negative place, despite the victories, which will look better on the pages of the history books than they did on the pitch. The process of appointing Lennon appears to have been a shambles; since when does a major club announce that an offer has been made to a managerial prospect? And what value was there in offering a deal to Izaguirre? Doubly troubling given it was obviously on wages insufficient to have him seriously consider it.
I want to be positive but I can't help feeling a bit negative right now. No amount of pep talks or chastisement is going to magically change that. Experience (of pretty much every year since about 2001) is telling me that we won't show the kind of controlled ambition that we need to in order to make the leap from champions league qualifiers also rans to a team that can make the rich clubs sweat a bit. Ajax have done this, so can we. Who know what might have happened if we had shown a little more courage in the summer van Dijk left, actually qualified for the CL and had him with us for one last season?
If we can't voice those concerns amongst ourselves without being castigated it's a bad day. I didn't agree with the tone of James Forrest's post earlier but he's right when he says that we need to be able to share these views and criticise the leadership when we need to. We can't always wait until after the event. We, the fans, are the true guardians of the club. We are in a dangerous place right now and the Tr3ble won't change that.
We need to make sure those in charge know that we aren't as stupid or as gullible as they probably believe. We owe this to each other and to Celtic.
No, of course not.For the record, Spherical, I'm way, way over 25 and recall the bad times all too well, unfortunately! I can't agree that this has any bearing on what we need to do now. It was worse once, so let's be content to do less than we should now?
I want to be positive but I can't help feeling a bit negative right now. No amount of pep talks or chastisement is going to magically change that
Ajax have done this, so can we.
If we can't voice those concerns amongst ourselves without being castigated it's a bad day. I didn't agree with the tone of James Forrest's post earlier but he's right when he says that we need to be able to share these views and criticise the leadership when we need to. We can't always wait until after the event. We, the fans, are the true guardians of the club. We are in a dangerous place right now and the Tr3ble won't change that.
Who's chastising you or attempting to give you pep talks? As is made clear in my post, I'm actually making an empirical argument against negativity. I can't and have absolutely no wish to police the personal feelings that Celtic fans or anyone else. But when they talk about Celtic 'downgrading' or whatever, I am entitled to voice my opinion that whoever came after Rodgers wasn't going to be of the same level as him as a coach But even taking that into account, the idea that Neil Lennon is some kind of major 'downgrade' on Rodgers takes a huge amount of revisionism regarding his tenure as a manager at our club the last time, as well as his time at Hibs (suddenly his time at Hibs, which people used to praise, has become a 'failure' and 'nightmare' to certain people). I actually heard somebody on a Celtic podcast calling his time at Hibs 'disastrous' - not only did he easily win them promotion, but he then got the newly promoted team to finish 4th in their fist season and challenge for second right to the last day of the season. His record against Celtic and Sevco as Hibs manager is better than any other manager. In fact, it was Neil Lennon's Hibs that gave us our most emphatic whipping this season domestically, with that 2-0 win over us at Easter Road. They could have won that by 3 or 4.
It's an entirely false analogy jumped upon by the media and some fans who haven't really thought it through. Celtic are not Ajax's equal. We are actually a bigger club globally than them, but this was a team that was winning the Champions League in the 1990s. This is a club that has for DECADES pioneered a youth set up that literally has no equals in the world, producing a wealth of talent using a system that has had money poured into it and has been facilitated by the Dutch football authorities for decades. Celtic have nothing even remotely similar in place. That's something that can be worked towards - not something that is a reasonable demand for the present. Moreover, Ajax have much bigger financial resources than us. They spent 16 million on Daley Blind at the beginning of last season, while shelling out 12 million on Tadic and 10 million on Magallan. They had a couple of other 8 and 9 million signings. That's a lot of money. It's money Celtic can't afford to spend even if we get to the CL group stages. The Dutch league is much more financially lucrative and stable, while Dutch clubs are much more heavily subsidised by TV money than the Scottish league. They're also backed by the largest insurance and finance capital firms in Europe.
But who is stopping you from voicing those concerns? Among the cyberworld, these 'concerns' and viewpoints are the majority and are not being challenged. Nobody is censoring it. I'm absolutely 100% up for debates such as this - I'm not willing to indulge hysteria and people who are printing lies that have one purpose: to make our club look bad for their own agendas (they didn't want Neil Lennon, they don't like Peter Lawwell etc.). I'm all for criticising the Celtic board, the entire culture of which I think is unhealthy, and I'm all for legitimate criticism in general. If it's not working under Neil Lennon, I'll be the first to say it. I was majorly critical of his tactics at Ibrox (for me, this is much more worrying than the dip in form, which I don't think can be attributed to NL, but he made a right arse out of the tactics on the day). I'm talking about those who react to perfectly reasonable happenings with hardcore hysteria and privileged dummy-spitting narcissism. Everything is a disaster to these people. They even managed to turn the treble treble into a moment to attack the club and predict doom. As much as they have the right to write their blogs, I have my own right to criticise the manner of the discourse around this subject.
In response to the original post, which I agree with in many aspects, negativity to me is partially a state of mind and partially a blend of emotions, such as frustration, anxiety and anger. It's not difficult to see why some of us are in a negative place, despite the victories, which will look better on the pages of the history books than they did on the pitch. The process of appointing Lennon appears to have been a shambles; since when does a major club announce that an offer has been made to a managerial prospect? And what value was there in offering a deal to Izaguirre? Doubly troubling given it was obviously on wages insufficient to have him seriously consider it.
I want to be positive but I can't help feeling a bit negative right now. No amount of pep talks or chastisement is going to magically change that. Experience (of pretty much every year since about 2001) is telling me that we won't show the kind of controlled ambition that we need to in order to make the leap from champions league qualifiers also rans to a team that can make the rich clubs sweat a bit. Ajax have done this, so can we. Who know what might have happened if we had shown a little more courage in the summer van Dijk left, actually qualified for the CL and had him with us for one last season?
If we can't voice those concerns amongst ourselves without being castigated it's a bad day. I didn't agree with the tone of James Forrest's post earlier but he's right when he says that we need to be able to share these views and criticise the leadership when we need to. We can't always wait until after the event. We, the fans, are the true guardians of the club. We are in a dangerous place right now and the Tr3ble won't change that.
We need to make sure those in charge know that we aren't as stupid or as gullible as they probably believe. We owe this to each other and to Celtic.
Oh, Sam... you've taken all of this very personally! And in terms of dummy spitting etc you've excelled far beyond those you sought to challenge. To be clear, I need someone to give me a logical, rather than empirical argument as to why I shouldn't feel negative, I've heard all the arguments - including yours - countless times over the years. And you can't discard the Ajax comparison so easily without understanding the point I'm making. They came up with a strategy, one that works for them, unlike many similar clubs. If they have the wherewithal to do this, so can we.
Fkn hell, r u tets love child ????
Soz tet but u know where am comin fae ???
But herein lies the irony of your response to Sam, FB.Oh, Sam... you've taken all of this very personally! And in terms of dummy spitting etc you've excelled far beyond those you sought to challenge. To be clear, I need someone to give me a logical, rather than empirical argument as to why I shouldn't feel negative, I've heard all the arguments - including yours - countless times over the years. And you can't discard the Ajax comparison so easily without understanding the point I'm making. They came up with a strategy, one that works for them, unlike many similar clubs. If they have the wherewithal to do this, so can we.
The debate has been generally civilised by usual Scottish standards, FB, no one's credentials should be questioned and I've absolutely no doubt that your interests are only in what is best for Celtic.The responses to my comments are typical of how these sorts of discussions quickly break down. You'll see that I originally "liked" Sam's post and even state that I agreed with aspects of what he / she had to say. I differed in my opinion on certain points. Sam then seems to take this difference of opinion as an attack, provoking a lengthy, dismissive reply, albeit one that time and thought has clearly been invested in. Others then join in with "what would you do better", "no that's you that is", "I know best", "but you're really James Forrest in disguise" etc. It's a pattern repeated throughout this forum I thought Celtic Noise was meant to be a forum encouraging debate, a platform for our views, not a shouting down exercise.
I have always, and will always, want the best for Celtic. Same as everyone else on here (lurkers excepted).
I'll leave it open now for the usual round of "last word" antics. I'll take it on the chin, I promise, just as long as no-one accuses me of being an Old Sevconian ?
The responses to my comments are typical of how these sorts of discussions quickly break down. You'll see that I originally "liked" Sam's post and even state that I agreed with aspects of what he / she had to say. I differed in my opinion on certain points. Sam then seems to take this difference of opinion as an attack, provoking a lengthy, dismissive reply, albeit one that time and thought has clearly been invested in. Others then join in with "what would you do better", "no that's you that is", "I know best", "but you're really James Forrest in disguise" etc. It's a pattern repeated throughout this forum I thought Celtic Noise was meant to be a forum encouraging debate, a platform for our views, not a shouting down exercise.
I have always, and will always, want the best for Celtic. Same as everyone else on here (lurkers excepted).
I'll leave it open now for the usual round of "last word" antics. I'll take it on the chin, I promise, just as long as no-one accuses me of being an Old Sevconian ?
The debate has been generally civilised by usual Scottish standards, FB, no one's credentials should be questioned and I've absolutely no doubt that your interests are only in what is best for Celtic.
It's a divisive topic, but when the first ball of the new season is kicked in anger, then I'm sure there will be a united front (until we're 2 down in the first 5 minutes anyway).
It's the unpredictability of football that draws us in and that is why it is important to live in, and enjoy, the moment.
No doubt the debate will ratchet up a gear or two when the window opens, but in the meantime, all we can do is speculate and offer an opinion.
Sam, you started this thread and have shaped the whole thing with a touch of class.There's a bit in that excellent movie 'Friday Night Lights' when the QB kid is getting interviewed by a uni and the interviewer has to remind him or point out to him that football (yank football obv) is supposed to be fun and people are supposed to enjoy it. Sometimes, when you look at the media and the entire culture of fitba, I have to remind myself of that. And I'm guilty. When you're a grown adult and find yourself literally smashing things while watching a game of fitba, something has gone wrong in life.
Looks like he's took his baw n fkd off for the night bloggers take it personal
Don't worry Sam its quite normal to smash things when Celtic are playing ?There's a bit in that excellent movie 'Friday Night Lights' when the QB kid is getting interviewed by uni scouts for a scholarship and the interviewer has to remind or point out to him that football (yank football obv) is supposed to be fun and people are supposed to enjoy it. Sometimes, when you look at the media and the entire culture of fitba here, I have to remind myself of that. And I'm guilty. When you're a grown adult and find yourself literally smashing things while watching a game of fitba, something has gone wrong in life.
Sam, you started this thread and have shaped the whole thing with a touch of class.
There's been a varied range of opinion, but it's fitting that you should have the last word; however - by me posting this nonsense comment, you now have to put up one last post to close it out.
Take a bow HH