The politics of the songbook

[The Deadner]

Re your sentence the Irish dont sing them anyway Verdict
I was singing Grace ( Karaoke ) in a great old traditional Irish pub in Dublins Stoneybatter ( Real old Dublin district ) and it was well received by most of the crowd but as I made my way back to my to my Baileys and 5 Lamps lager I passed a table full of twenty somethings all saying " I wish they would feckin' ditch that old Republican shite its spoiling the night". Irelands new generation have left their history behind now I think

There's certain areas of Ireland haven't a fuckin clue about what happened in Ireland and don't give a fuck about it. If you grew up with it, you do. Interesting you chose a good republican song like grace, a fine example of a republican song being sung in full flow TV1.....

 

[Theverdict1]

Yes there is peace here, to a certain extent. Would I like it to go back to how it was? No. War is rotten in any form. But it happened and people like to sing about it. And I appreciate the many walks of life that support the celts and wouldn't try to censor them just as you should appreciate and try to accept the people who choose to sing whatever songs they want. Get another group going to sing Celtic only songs, but what gives anyone the right to preach to anyone else. As for moving on, why should we forget the men and women who sacrificed so much to get us to where we are today and yet celebrate the other fuckers who raped and pillaged every country they were ever in.

I’m not preaching. Im staying why I think we should move on. Why I know it doesn’t inspire the team in any way shape or form. I think the failure to back up that singing by marching with republicans when they march shows how much they really care.

As an example during the miners strike I was right behind them. With them in the picket lines and in a few scrapes. If I just sang about them I wouldn’t have been doing fuck all to actually help them. If all who sing them are committed to the cause, where do these feelings of comradeship go the morning of a march? That’s my problem. There’s no risk to them standing in a crowd sunglasses by a song. There is when you hit the streets. Separates the those who truly believe from those who enjoy a song.

Struggles are never won by choirs.

 

[The Deadner]

I’m not preaching. Im staying why I think we should move on. Why I know it doesn’t inspire the team in any way shape or form. I think the failure to back up that singing by marching with republicans when they march shows how much they really care.

As an example during the miners strike I was right behind them. With them in the picket lines and in a few scrapes. If I just sang about them I wouldn’t have been doing fuck all to actually help them. If all who sing them are committed to the cause, where do these feelings of comradeship go the morning of a march? That’s my problem. There’s no risk to them standing in a crowd sunglasses by a song. There is when you hit the streets. Separates the those who truly believe from those who enjoy a song.

Struggles are never won by choirs.

Are you suggesting a return to armed conflict? I don't think anyone wants that, but as the line in the loughgal martyrs song says "if a song can lift our hearts or raise our spirits, then we'll sing about our martyrs at loughal".
It's about remembrance. And I will admit some of the songs a cringe worthy, for example the sam7 song. I think if the people singin the song knew the history behind the Sam7, then they wouldn't be singin about it. Apart from the that, keep her lit!

 

[Theverdict1]

Are you suggesting a return to armed conflict? I don't think anyone wants that, but as the line in the loughgal martyrs song says "if a song can lift our hearts or raise our spirits, then we'll sing about our martyrs at loughal".
It's about remembrance. And I will admit some of the songs a cringe worthy, for example the sam7 song. I think if the people singin the song knew the history behind the Sam7, then they wouldn't be singin about it. Apart from the that, keep her lit!

I hear what your saying, I just don’t think Celtic games are the place to do that. A lot of the stuff is cringeworthy. People belting out filling a holster but not pressed to march. I wouldn’t have any Cunt like that in any battalion I was in.

Of course I don’t want the troubles to start again. Do we help peace by continually singing about war?

We will need to agree to differ. My interpretation of commitment to a political cause might include the odd song, but it doesn’t end there and for the vast maj of those who sing them that’s the sum total.

It’s the context, a football game 20 years after the Good Friday Agreement to me isn’t the right one. It will damage the club, it gives those against us a well look at them opportunity to divert and they inspire not a single cunt on the field.

 

[26+6=1]

Just on the subject of what is sung in Ireland. The National Game is Gaelic Football and you get The National Anthem before the game starts but after that the only singing you will hear will be chanting in support of your county; regardless of what province. I don't remember ever hearing political singing at a club or county match.

 

[Theverdict1]

Just on the subject of what is sung in Ireland. The National Game is Gaelic Football and you get The National Anthem before the game starts but after that the only singing you will hear will be chanting in support of your county; regardless of what province. I don't remember ever hearing political singing at a club or county match.

Because they don’t do it. Neither should we.

 

[26+6=1]

I passed a table full of twenty somethings all saying " I wish they would feckin' ditch that old Republican shite its spoiling the night". Irelands new generation have left their history behind now I think

That process began about a century ago. Liam Mellows said in 1922:

"The 'stake in the country people' were never with the Republic. They are not with it now and they will always be against it - until it wins!"
The 'stake in the country people' ensured there was sufficient censorship and repression in the part of Ireland not under British occupation to ensure Mellows' words would remain relevant.

 

[The Deadner]

Just on the subject of what is sung in Ireland. The National Game is Gaelic Football and you get The National Anthem before the game starts but after that the only singing you will hear will be chanting in support of your county; regardless of what province. I don't remember ever hearing political singing at a club or county match.

I'm a gaa man first and foremost. There is no singing at matches because most games are end to end, score for score. You don't get time or have a need to sing. The atmosphere is created by the intensity of the match. Singing in Soccer on the other hand creates an atmosphere that if removed would leave the place like a morgue. Which has been proved several times in Celtic park when the green brigade were banned. As far as politics in the gaa, that's what it was founded on. A lot of the club teams and their pitches are named after republicans.

 

[TartanTim]

Sorry but its time the ra chants got dropped, becase they have no significance in modern day football.

I'm proud of my Irish roots, but in all the years I went tae games with my Granpa, Da or Uncles the only time they sung rebel songs was on the bus tae games or in the house.

As for the Queen, I'm a Scot I don't have a Queen & I don't recognise the house of Windsor or any claim they have on the Scots throne.

IT'S ALL ABOUT CELTIC FOR ME,

 

[26+6=1]

I'm a gaa man first and foremost. There is no singing at matches because most games are end to end, score for score. You don't get time or have a need to sing. The atmosphere is created by the intensity of the match. Singing in Soccer on the other hand creates an atmosphere that if removed would leave the place like a morgue. Which has been proved several times in Celtic park when the green brigade were banned. As far as politics in the gaa, that's what it was founded on. A lot of the club teams and their pitches are named after republicans.

That's correct clubs and grounds are named after rebels like The O Neills and Patrick Sarsfield from long before there was Republicanism in Ireland right up to the Hunger Strike; in the case of Dungiven Kevin Lynch. Antrim fans try to bring the soccer singing to games but they don't usually be out too many weekends in the summer.
Nobody's saying anything about removing singing from soccer in general or Celtic Park in particular. The more singing the better and the more songs that everyone can join in the better still. Songs should be inclusive not exclusive; as in they should appeal to as broad a section of the support as possible by making everyone feel like joining. Songs about Celtic are more likely to do that

 

[1888]

A football song....sort of.

 

[Celtic Ghostie]

Like a dog with a bone (I really wish I could convince the green brigade ) this post is likely to bore you shitless. I'm an old DJ sometimes and in my time I've done a lot of Celtic functions but maybe as recently as 10 years ago you felt the pressure from "distressed neighbours" gravely offended "passers by" "the polis" etc to rein in the militant songs and so I evolved a playlist which would project a great Celtic/Irish atmosphere but would negate any possible complaint because there was no hatred/war/terrorism evident in any song and here it is (wheres Maria when I need her )
Players Brigade -Just cant get enough -Celtic Symphony - 4 leaf clover -Fields of Athenrye -Willie Maley -Over and over
Wolfe Tones Big strong man -My heart is in Ireland - Slievenamon - Lough Sheelin eviction - Streets of New York - Women of Ireland -
The Pogues. Irish Rover - Fiesta - Sally MacLennan - Holy ground - Dirty old town
Jim McCann. Grace - Meet me at the pillar
Charlie n the Bhoys Let the people sing - This land is your land - Big Jock Stein
Claire Celts We're on the one road
and then stuff like Stand up for the champions - You'll never walk alone Still haven't found what I'm looking for -Whisky in the jar - The boys are back in town - Carnival de Parkheid (Paris)

So it can be done and when you think of the players songs like I wanna be Edouard which you can throw into the mix, we dont need the songs which allow the SMSM to indulge in whataboutery to exonerate the angry mob

 

[John Hughes]

Like a dog with a bone (I really wish I could convince the green brigade ) this post is likely to bore you shitless. I'm an old DJ sometimes and in my time I've done a lot of Celtic functions but maybe as recently as 10 years ago you felt the pressure from "distressed neighbours" gravely offended "passers by" "the polis" etc to rein in the militant songs and so I evolved a playlist which would project a great Celtic/Irish atmosphere but would negate any possible complaint because there was no hatred/war/terrorism evident in any song and here it is (wheres Maria when I need her )
Players Brigade -Just cant get enough -Celtic Symphony - 4 leaf clover -Fields of Athenrye -Willie Maley -Over and over
Wolfe Tones Big strong man -My heart is in Ireland - Slievenamon - Lough Sheelin eviction - Streets of New York - Women of Ireland -
The Pogues. Irish Rover - Fiesta - Sally MacLennan - Holy ground - Dirty old town
Jim McCann. Grace - Meet me at the pillar
Charlie n the Bhoys Let the people sing - This land is your land - Big Jock Stein
Claire Celts We're on the one road
and then stuff like Stand up for the champions - You'll never walk alone Still haven't found what I'm looking for -Whisky in the jar - The boys are back in town - Carnival de Parkheid (Paris)

So it can be done and when you think of the players songs like I wanna be Edouard which you can throw into the mix, we dont need the songs which allow the SMSM to indulge in whataboutery to exonerate the angry mob

That's a great post mate. Sally maclennan in particular is a favourite of mine and Holy Ground was a great one for my auld da.( fine girl ye are ). Love those songs.. Dirty Old town , great song covered by the Pogues, written by the great Ewan McCall about his home town of Salford. Always thought he was Scottish but he wasn't. Think his parents were though.

 

[dublinbhoy1967]

Respect to you for this article PMM. It’s a topic that needs to be discussed and although I enjoy the belting out the Rebel songs in the boozer or whatever I think there are many that don’t belong in a football stadium. I expect there to be a lot of pressure coming our way on this topic this season given the heat the Huns are feeling. They still don’t understand the fundamental issue though...?

Fantastic to have so many Celtic songs to sing thanks to the GB and the like too ?

Specific songs Police Scotland were told were “Sectarian”
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/old-firm-clash-songs-what-5060640

Police Scotland Banned Songs

Glasgow Celtic IRA
Ibrox Disaster Song (Don’t know this and don’t want to...)

The Jury was out on the following Rebel songs -

The Boys Of The Old Brigade
The Merry Ploughboy

 

[The Deadner]

Like a dog with a bone (I really wish I could convince the green brigade ) this post is likely to bore you shitless. I'm an old DJ sometimes and in my time I've done a lot of Celtic functions but maybe as recently as 10 years ago you felt the pressure from "distressed neighbours" gravely offended "passers by" "the polis" etc to rein in the militant songs and so I evolved a playlist which would project a great Celtic/Irish atmosphere but would negate any possible complaint because there was no hatred/war/terrorism evident in any song and here it is (wheres Maria when I need her )
Players Brigade -Just cant get enough -Celtic Symphony - 4 leaf clover -Fields of Athenrye -Willie Maley -Over and over
Wolfe Tones Big strong man -My heart is in Ireland - Slievenamon - Lough Sheelin eviction - Streets of New York - Women of Ireland -
The Pogues. Irish Rover - Fiesta - Sally MacLennan - Holy ground - Dirty old town
Jim McCann. Grace - Meet me at the pillar
Charlie n the Bhoys Let the people sing - This land is your land - Big Jock Stein
Claire Celts We're on the one road
and then stuff like Stand up for the champions - You'll never walk alone Still haven't found what I'm looking for -Whisky in the jar - The boys are back in town - Carnival de Parkheid (Paris)

So it can be done and when you think of the players songs like I wanna be Edouard which you can throw into the mix, we dont need the songs which allow the SMSM to indulge in whataboutery to exonerate the angry mob

I've no problem with most of these songs, but there's one I would take offence to. The boys are back in town. This was the anthem of the marines who when stationed locally used to belt it out of the speakers of the barracks and Saracen as a warning to the locals "we're back". They even went from house to house posting flyers into letter boxes with the lyrics on them. So every time I hear or see them lyrics, it brings me back to a horrible time as a child. A few other songs you've chosen are just dodgy taste, but whatever you're into I suppose!

 

[26+6=1]

I've no problem with most of these songs, but there's one I would take offence to. The boys are back in town. This was the anthem of the marines who when stationed locally used to belt it out of the speakers of the barracks and Saracen as a warning to the locals "we're back". They even went from house to house posting flyers into letter boxes with the lyrics on them. So every time I hear or see them lyrics, it brings me back to a horrible time as a child. A few other songs you've chosen are just dodgy taste, but whatever you're into I suppose!

'Offence' is probably not the best word. The song was written about Irish, English / Irish gangsters in Manchester by a majority Irish band. Misappropriation of the song by the occupation crown forces was unpleasant and unfortunate and I'm sure neither Phil Lynott nor Brian Downey would have approved of this or the many crimes committed by Brit marines and other regiments in Ireland . Just like I'm sure Tina Turner wouldn't approve of the misappropriation of her song by Rangers and Sevco racists and Loyalist murder gang, narco-terrorists. My knowledge of Tina's song predates the misappropriation and I'm not 'offended' by it. I'm offended by the misuse of the song but not the song itself.
All a bit of a moot point anyway as The Boys Are Back In Town wouldn't really be suitable for chanting at a match.

 

[jinxy67]

The only positions specifically barred to Catholics are marriage to the sovereign or heir to the throne, or becoming sovereign themselves, a legacy of the Act of Settlement that followed the Glorious Revolution of 1688 and the deposition of the last Catholic monarch, James II; there has never been a Catholic prime minister!!! are ye there Doc!

I always thought Tony Blair was a Catholic???

 

[The Shamrock]

I always thought Tony Blair was a Catholic???

He is now but not when he was Prime Minister because a Catholic still isn't allowed to be PM.

 

[The Galway shawl]

I always thought Tony Blair was a Catholic???

Was an Anglican then Converted to Catholic in 2007/8. Still no matter his religious beliefs a Major War criminal for the misery and Death he caused along with FUCKIN No brain G.W.bush in lRAQ. And all on bogus intel.

 

[jinxy67]

Was an Anglican then Converted to Catholic in 2007/8. Still no matter his religious beliefs a Major War criminal for the misery and Death he caused along with FUCKIN No brain G.W.bush in lRAQ. And all on bogus intel.

Oh not doubting any of above, just saying that I thought he was Catholic, war mongering son of a bitch but a Catholic all the same